Help & advice

[Cygnus x-1]

4 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

 

It means you broke one of the rules that were laid out, this is a warning about it but it isn't considered something that causes any real problem and is most likely because you didn't read the rules. Which is what the 0 point warning said that was sent to you and you acknowledged getting

 

 

 

Who was making any assumptions? You broke one of the rules and it was flagged, like if anyone broke the rules and was flagged, noone is making it about you.

If you read my last post I admitted I made a mistake, I didn't read the rules, I was rightly warned. 

 

Whoever is moderating this is making assumptions, assuming I'm trying to avoid the £7 fee by selling by another means, when all I'm actually doing is asking a question to start a debate to try to get to know how to go about achieving my goal (Ebay, FB, take it to a shop, on here etc.) 

If it's just the £7 that's causing all this I'd happily pay that for advice. 

But it looks like 'they've' made their minds up and (imo) unfairly judged me. 

You live and learn, there are a lot of people on this thread who've commented to try to offer help, to these people THANK YOU. 

[Kev]

1 hour ago, Cygnus x-1 said:

If you read my last post I admitted I made a mistake, I didn't read the rules, I was rightly warned. 

 

Whoever is moderating this is making assumptions, assuming I'm trying to avoid the £7 fee by selling by another means, when all I'm actually doing is asking a question to start a debate to try to get to know how to go about achieving my goal (Ebay, FB, take it to a shop, on here etc.) 

If it's just the £7 that's causing all this I'd happily pay that for advice. 

But it looks like 'they've' made their minds up and (imo) unfairly judged me. 

You live and learn, there are a lot of people on this thread who've commented to try to offer help, to these people THANK YOU. 

I'm not sure if there are miscommunications here, but the issue really is as simple as the rules of the forum do not allow threads requesting valuations for equipment outside of the subscribers members only sub-forum that has been linked to in this thread.  The reason is people (not necessarily you!) have been known to use valuation threads as a way of getting gear sold without paying to be a supporting member.  It isn't personal and shouldn't be viewed as such, you will only get formally warned if you repeatedly break the rules after its been pointed out to you.  Best advice is to take advice from the mods/admin team and not members 

 

To view the forum in question, you need to be a Supporting Member, which is £20 per year.  The £7 price is to post a single sales ad, which I do not believe makes you a supporting member.

[Burns-bass]

This is grim reading.

 

I’m all for following the rules but this really doesn’t reflect well on this forum. Signing off for a while.

[ped]

2 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

This is grim reading.

 

I’m all for following the rules but this really doesn’t reflect well on this forum. Signing off for a while.

 

I don't really see why - if there was no rule, nobody would pay for an advert, and BC wouldn't exist. As much as we'd like to, we can't make any exceptions, can we? Every post/thread that alludes to an item being for sale is removed and the poster receives a very nice detailed and courteous reply as to why:

 

Quote

 

Hi there!

Don't panic - this isn't a 'warning' as such - just a note to say that on Basschat we don't allow 'what's it worth' type posts, because sometimes people use them to post items for sale without placing an advert.

If you're struggling to value your item, have a look on here by searching for your item in the marketplace forum, perhaps someone has sold one before. Another idea is to check eBay for 'completed' and 'sold' items. If you still can't find out, ask yourself what's it worth to you? You can list it with a rough (and realistic) price, then ask for offers in that range.

We are working on a 'value your kit' service but in the meantime if you are really struggling for a price please feel free to email any details, including a picture or two if possible to [email protected] and we'll do the legwork for you.

Cheers and thanks for using Basschat.

 

 

See, we even offer to help you research!

 

Tell me how that's unfair?

[Kev]

9 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

This is grim reading.

 

I’m all for following the rules but this really doesn’t reflect well on this forum. Signing off for a while.

This is sad, and very confusing, to read, especially from a Supporting Member.

 

If we are missing something collectively here guys, please do say, as at present it just seems the consensus in this thread is that we should have allowed this one valuation thread, for reasons not current obvious to anyone on the team?

[MartinB]

1 hour ago, Kev said:

If we are missing something collectively here guys, please do say, as at present it just seems the consensus in this thread is that we should have allowed this one valuation thread, for reasons not current obvious to anyone on the team?

 

I'd rather see the rules enforced consistently than see BC shut down for want of funds.
But...

 

On 16/05/2024 at 17:35, Cygnus x-1 said:

For some reason my post has been either removed or moved

If that's what actually happened - i.e. the thread was removed with no explanation given - then it's no surprise the OP raised another one. Perhaps a better response might have been a mod post in the thread restating the forum rules about valuation, and then a thread lock? That's transparent, and it would've been a useful reminder to everyone else who'd responded to the thread as well.

Of course this is just my 2p, with none of the facts to hand 😉

Edited May 17 by MartinB
typo

[Cygnus x-1]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

This is grim reading.

 

I’m all for following the rules but this really doesn’t reflect well on this forum. Signing off for a while.

Thanks very much Lawrie [Burns-bass] for your understanding and support, you give your fellow man a chance and are able to look at the big picture. 

 

I must say being a member of this forum for more years than I care to remember, I have dealt with and spoken to many great people, but... I think it changed when the listing fees were introduced and can get suspicious, prickly and petty. 

 

I'm a member of many forums of different interests and have never had or seen issues like this. 

 

Anyhow thanks for lots of understanding and like Burns-bass I'll take a break. 

 

Nick. 

[Woodinblack]

16 minutes ago, MartinB said:

If that's what actually happened - i.e. the thread was removed with no explanation given - then it's no surprise the OP raised another one. 

 

No, the original thread was removed, then a warning was raised saying what the problem was and acknowledged. then this new thread was posted.

There is sometimes a delay between the hiding and the warning as there aren't full time mods, just people with stuff going on, that isn't the issue.

 

18 minutes ago, MartinB said:

Perhaps a better response might have been a mod post in the thread restating the forum rules about valuation, and then a thread lock? That's transparent, and it would've been a useful reminder to everyone else who'd responded to the thread as well.

 

ok, so there is a post that breaks the rules in that it could be a closeted attempt to get people to see the post and PM offers, so this is handled by leaving the post there so people can see it and send PMs about it but there is a big sign saying 'don't do this' at the end? I can't see it being effective. 

 

[Kev]

22 minutes ago, MartinB said:

If that's what actually happened - i.e. the thread was removed with no explanation given - then it's no surprise the OP raised another one. Perhaps a better response might have been a mod post in the thread restating the forum rules about valuation, and then a thread lock? That's transparent, and it would've been a useful reminder to everyone else who'd responded to the thread as well.

Of course this is just my 2p, with none of the facts to hand 😉

He would have received the full explanation that has been reposted a couple of times in here.  If he didn't receive this, then this is a bug we can look at for him if he lets us know, but it shows at our end as sent and acknowledged.  

 

Unfortunately, like many forums, rules like this have to be in place i'm afraid, site runnings costs sadly don't pay for themselves, and it is still an AWFUL lot cheaper to sell stuff here than certain other online marketplaces  

[MartinB]

6 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

ok, so there is a post that breaks the rules in that it could be a closeted attempt to get people to see the post and PM offers, so this is handled by leaving the post there so people can see it and send PMs about it but there is a big sign saying 'don't do this' at the end? I can't see it being effective.

 

Haha yes, fair point! Taking this approach, you'd probably also have to edit the first post to remove the details about what was being sold... and it all gets a bit complicated.

[ped]

1 hour ago, ped said:

 

I don't really see why - if there was no rule, nobody would pay for an advert, and BC wouldn't exist. As much as we'd like to, we can't make any exceptions, can we? Every post/thread that alludes to an item being for sale is removed and the poster receives a very nice detailed and courteous reply as to why:

 

 

See, we even offer to help you research!

 

Tell me how that's unfair?

Can anyone tell me why this is petty/unfair/prickly please or shall I lock this now everyone is clear of the (easy, well communicated and helpful) rule?

 

I’d seriously like to know feedback if you think there’s a better way to run the forum 

[Beedster]

18 minutes ago, Cygnus x-1 said:

Thanks very much Lawrie [Burns-bass] for your understanding and support, you give your fellow man a chance and are able to look at the big picture. 

 

I must say being a member of this forum for more years than I care to remember, I have dealt with and spoken to many great people, but... I think it changed when the listing fees were introduced and can get suspicious, prickly and petty. 

 

I'm a member of many forums of different interests and have never had or seen issues like this. 

 

Anyhow thanks for lots of understanding and like Burns-bass I'll take a break. 

 

Nick. 

 

Nick, seems to have got messy above. All I can add is that the £7 per sale or £20 per year to sell for a whole year will be money well spent. This is a great place with a lot of great people many of whom like buying basses (and then selling them again) 👍

[taunton-hobbit]

I can't see the problem, look it up on t'internet, work out an average price & then consider if this is the right site to use - I've got stuff (no plugs) that I won't put on here............

 

edit - I'm reminded of a local forum to me that has turned into a massive winge-fest over banning dogs from a chunk of our beach where kids play, it's only for the summer & there's plenty of 'other' beach for dogs to use, but peeple can't (or won't) stop being outraged ............

 

 

😎

Edited May 17 by taunton-hobbit

[jonnybass]

This thread has me a little confused. I think the mods have been reasonable, fair and open with this issue. But the reaction from some other peeps seems a bit odd.

 

hope it all works out for everyone though

 

jonny

[Burns-bass]

7 hours ago, ped said:

 

I don't really see why - if there was no rule, nobody would pay for an advert, and BC wouldn't exist. As much as we'd like to, we can't make any exceptions, can we? Every post/thread that alludes to an item being for sale is removed and the poster receives a very nice detailed and courteous reply as to why:

 

 

See, we even offer to help you research!

 

Tell me how that's unfair?

If someone had sent a polite PM and explained all this then fair enough. It’s the way this has played out so publicly with someone who has explained to us that they’re living with cancer. Perhaps I’m sensitive as I know several people living with (and dying with) the condition.

 

I appreciate and respect rules and pay my membership. From what I read in the last thread, Dad said it would be ok to ask for value of items. 
 

It is what it is and you live and learn. 

 

 

[ped]

6 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

If someone had sent a polite PM and explained all this then fair enough. It’s the way this has played out so publicly with someone who has explained to us that they’re living with cancer. Perhaps I’m sensitive as I know several people living with (and dying with) the condition.

 

I appreciate and respect rules and pay my membership. From what I read in the last thread, Dad said it would be ok to ask for value of items. 
 

It is what it is and you live and learn. 

 

 

 

The thing is, that's exactly what we did. Everything is laid out very clearly in the 'warning' - which appears as a notification which you have to acknowledge before you can carry on. It was ignored. It was not us who 'went public' which I agree is a shame, and we have been painted as the bad guys somehow, despite, if you read the 'warning' a genuinely friendly offer to help do some research, which we're happy to do (and is really easy in this case).

 

A similar situation recently resulted in the poster sending me a PM after reading the 'warning' note, we got talking and I ended up sending him a free membership. The system works if you follow it.

[asingardenof]

15 hours ago, ped said:

Can anyone tell me why this is petty/unfair/prickly please or shall I lock this now everyone is clear of the (easy, well communicated and helpful) rule?

 

I’d seriously like to know feedback if you think there’s a better way to run the forum 

Having spent years on various volunteer-run committees for organisations I feel the pain of everyone having views but nobody wanting to actually wanting to contribute to improvements.

[Cygnus x-1]

3 hours ago, ped said:

 

The thing is, that's exactly what we did. Everything is laid out very clearly in the 'warning' - which appears as a notification which you have to acknowledge before you can carry on. It was ignored. It was not us who 'went public' which I agree is a shame, and we have been painted as the bad guys somehow, despite, if you read the 'warning' a genuinely friendly offer to help do some research, which we're happy to do (and is really easy in this case).

 

A similar situation recently resulted in the poster sending me a PM after reading the 'warning' note, we got talking and I ended up sending him a free membership. The system works if you follow it.

I feel for this to have any value it has to be factual, 

 

1. I did ask for a valuation in 1st post, it was a mistake on my part. 

I had been off site for many years due to my illness and just wanted some advice. I guess I just wanted to converse bass with someone like you do in a bar or a bus stop. 

 

2. The warning was issued and acknowledged by me. 

 

3. A person advised if I cut out the pics and any mention of sale it would be OK, I could then ask for advice. 

I asked what section and was told General Discussion. 

 

4. I followed this advice and put up an edited 2nd post as advised. This was subsequently removed without any explanation. 

 

5. Assumptions were made that I was trying to gain a sale by avoiding the £7 fee which was DEFINITELY NOT the case, I just wanted to get some ideas and pointers and CHAT BASS. 

 

6. Some posts go up supporting my position and some post go up saying the rules have to be followed which is fair enough, we live in a democracy. 

 

7. The point is, being housebound and seeing only my family for 2 years I just wanted to chat about bass (it's called bass chat I thought) and maybe pick up some knowledge along the way. Yes I do want to sell one of my P basses but this WAS NOT the intention of the 1st post! 

If you can get out to see people, go to gigs or God forbid play bass at gigs then good on you........ I used to be able to do that!

 

8. These are the FACTS and I cringe when certain people make assumptions and say 'I'm just following rules' 

 

9. To the members who could see I wasn't trying to cheat the system a big thank you! 

 

Nick

[ped]

5 minutes ago, Cygnus x-1 said:

I feel for this to have any value it has to be factual, 

 

1. I did ask for a valuation in 1st post, it was a mistake on my part. 

I had been off site for many years due to my illness and just wanted some advice. I guess I just wanted to converse bass with someone like you do in a bar or a bus stop. 

 

2. The warning was issued and acknowledged by me. 

 

3. A person advised if I cut out the pics and any mention of sale it would be OK, I could then ask for advice. 

I asked what section and was told General Discussion. 

 

4. I followed this advice and put up an edited 2nd post as advised. This was subsequently removed without any explanation. 

 

5. Assumptions were made that I was trying to gain a sale by avoiding the £7 fee which was DEFINITELY NOT the case, I just wanted to get some ideas and pointers and CHAT BASS. 

 

6. Some posts go up supporting my position and some post go up saying the rules have to be followed which is fair enough, we live in a democracy. 

 

7. The point is, being housebound and seeing only my family for 2 years I just wanted to chat about bass (it's called bass chat I thought) and maybe pick up some knowledge along the way. Yes I do want to sell one of my P basses but this WAS NOT the intention of the 1st post! 

If you can get out to see people, go to gigs or God forbid play bass at gigs then good on you........ I used to be able to do that!

 

8. These are the FACTS and I cringe when certain people make assumptions and say 'I'm just following rules' 

 

9. To the members who could see I wasn't trying to cheat the system a big thank you! 

 

Nick

 

 

Hi Nick,

 

Putting everything else aside, which we really do take into consideration given the chance,

 

'I'm trying to assess the desirability of these precisions among the bass community as I only need one of these bases now'

 

or

 

'(I'm) asking a question to start a debate to try to get to know how to go about achieving my goal'  (which is to sell)

 

...are clearly attempts to ascertain value which isn't allowed, which was made clear.

 

The 'What's it worth' section is only visible to supporting members so there was some confusion over that; I can't see any way around that to make the section more useful without it becoming a place to list things for sale without paying (also an issue with Wanted ads) but we make do and have been doing so for many years without a problem.

 

Cheers

[Kev]

18 minutes ago, Cygnus x-1 said:

I feel for this to have any value it has to be factual, 

 

1. I did ask for a valuation in 1st post, it was a mistake on my part. 

I had been off site for many years due to my illness and just wanted some advice. I guess I just wanted to converse bass with someone like you do in a bar or a bus stop. 

 

2. The warning was issued and acknowledged by me. 

 

3. A person advised if I cut out the pics and any mention of sale it would be OK, I could then ask for advice. 

I asked what section and was told General Discussion. 

 

4. I followed this advice and put up an edited 2nd post as advised. This was subsequently removed without any explanation. 

 

5. Assumptions were made that I was trying to gain a sale by avoiding the £7 fee which was DEFINITELY NOT the case, I just wanted to get some ideas and pointers and CHAT BASS. 

 

6. Some posts go up supporting my position and some post go up saying the rules have to be followed which is fair enough, we live in a democracy. 

 

7. The point is, being housebound and seeing only my family for 2 years I just wanted to chat about bass (it's called bass chat I thought) and maybe pick up some knowledge along the way. Yes I do want to sell one of my P basses but this WAS NOT the intention of the 1st post! 

If you can get out to see people, go to gigs or God forbid play bass at gigs then good on you........ I used to be able to do that!

 

8. These are the FACTS and I cringe when certain people make assumptions and say 'I'm just following rules' 

 

9. To the members who could see I wasn't trying to cheat the system a big thank you! 

 

Nick

The thing is Nick, I'm struggling to see why you appear to have any animosity with the Basschat Admin/Mod team.  We explained the situation to you as you have now acknowledged, you unfortunately followed some bad advice from a non-moderator on here which caused us to have to act again.  You have not been accused of anything by the team, and our informal warning text is very clear to highlight this and offer help, but somehow you appear left with a negative opinion with us and how the site is run, which I think is what is causing such confusion and frustration with Ped and the rest of the team.

[Cygnus x-1]

To Ped and Kev thanks. 

 

To be fair to me I didn't know the 'advice' given to edit my 2nd post wasn't from a moderator how could I possibly know that?

 

While you are doing your best and I'm sure your work is appreciated you still fail to acknowledge that I was just wanting an  informative 'bass chat' and you still suggest I was trying to gain a sale without paying the fee. 

I have given you my word that wasn't the case, what more can I do to be believed? 

 

Are you unable to accept that I may have had honourable intention and just made a mistake. 

 

Ive been a member since early 2000's, have good feedback, and to my knowledge never upset anybody in that time. 

[ped]

Let's call it a misunderstanding and move on, shall we?! Have a lovely weekend

[mcnach]

 

I see "both sides" having some merit in their views. On this occasion I do not agree with enforcing the rules.

 

I may be a bit of a dreamer, but I detest following rules just because they're written and at the same time ignoring the "spirit of the rule", or what is it that the rule is attempting to achieve. Rules are suppose to help, not being a substitute for thinking, in my opinion of course.

 

There is a difference between asking how much something is with an intention to elicit interest and a sale, and someone asking the more general question I am seeing here, in our 'bass community'. It's not a bed of roses to moderate a forum, and I'm grateful for the mods here, this is by far the most reasonable forum I frequent in that respect. I understand that sometimes blanket rules have to be made because there's no reasonable way to deal with every little thing on a case by case basis, it would be unmanageable. However, when a situation that's worthy of a 'wave pass' arises and it's noticed... why not let it be? 

 

If this can be sorted simply by having a supporting membership, let me pay for it @ped. 

I am pretty sure that @Cygnus x-1 could afford it, that's not the issue. I just see someone in a place I hang out often having been caught in an unpleasant situation and I'd like to do something nice, that's all, just like I've benefited from the kindless random strangers in the past too, more than a few times. 

 

 

 

[binky_bass]

On 18/05/2024 at 11:45, Cygnus x-1 said:

To be fair to me I didn't know the 'advice' given to edit my 2nd post wasn't from a moderator how could I possibly know that?

I believe mods have a little orange shield type badge on the top right of their avatar that you can see on each person's post. Appreciate that's not super obvious, but may help going forward! 

Edited May 19 by binky_bass

[Dad3353]

It's about time that I 'fessed up to this, by admitting that it was I that gave the erroneous advice about posting in an inconspicuous way a request for valuation (in the manner of 'What do Squiers fetch, these days..?' or similar...). I was wrong, mea culpa, and all the more stupid as I had been a Mod, for quite a long time, and should have thought better of it. It was I, too, that 'reported' the original post, as it was in flagrant breach of the 'valuation' rule. I explained the rule, and its reasoning, in my reply to the OP, but the advice I gave, although in good faith, was wrong, and has led to all this rumpus. Apologies to all; I could plead old age and senility, but I should have thought it through a lot longer. Sorry.