Subs

[Alan Wilkes]

Hi,

Does anyone use a sub as part of their own rig, I don't mean the sub as part of the PA?

 

Cheers

 

Alan

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

If anyone here could it would be me, and I don't. The natural response of the electric bass doesn't go low enough to need them. For that matter even when the PA has them the electric bass channel strip should be high passed no lower than 60Hz. Otherwise the gosh awful cacophony that sounds like a teenager with a 5,000 quid system in a 500 quid car driving past can be the result.

[Phil Starr]

As Bill says. On stage with a band the last thing you want is a lot of the fundamental frequencies (41-83Hz for a four string) coming from the bass stack. It'll make a horrible formless mush that will make it difficult for everyone to hear, it will pollute the vocal mics and potentially create feedback problems. You need a very different tone on stage to that lovely sound you carefully set up at home. Even in the PA you'll need to filter out some of the natural bass once you try balancing out bass and drums with the other instruments.

 

Of course if you have a sub at home and want to try it for fun there's no harm but if you were thinking of a purchase then save your money and buy a Thumpinator. A sub on stage is as welcome as someone who has had too much re-fried beans

 

 

Edited May 21 by Phil Starr

[Alan Wilkes]

Thanks all appreciated

[Downunderwonder]

Used to. Whole band did. Backline was frontline, no vocals.

 

Bass was highpassed ala Fitzmaurice and bit more so the kick sounded like a kick and bass still sounded like bass.

 

One night the sub didn't get hooked up properly. Couldn't figure what was up with the bass at soundcheck. The other cab was highpassed another 10 or 20 hz higher than the bass so that bit was missing. Plugged in the sub and back in business.

 

 

So the takeaway is, it depends how you roll.

[Alan Wilkes]

I was going to use one ( up to a couple of hundred watts) as a support in certain gigs like outside where the lows tend to disappear. I only have Blackstar 120 unity, for most gigs its fine but as I say additional support would be useful, hence my question. Purchasing the 250 ACT is another option i could consider.

 

Thanks for your opinion though

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

It comes down to understanding why subs exist. Well implemented PA systems use mains that are elevated to project mids and highs. For maximum efficiency their response only extends to between 80 and 125 Hz. That means subs are needed to handle the lows. Bass cabs go to 50 Hz or lower, so they don't need assistance from subs. As to what happens outdoors, that relates to boundary reinforcement and room pressurization, which enhance low frequency response indoors. Since you don't have boundary reinforcement or room pressurization outdoors you need to use at least double the cab count to compensate.

[Phil Starr]

Hi Alan, at the risk of sounding like an echo Bill is spot on again.

 

I think that with a 120W 1x12 you are always going to be at the borderline of being loud enough, assuming you are playing some sort of pop/rock with a drummer in the band. It's worth thinking about this long term. If it's important to you to keep that exact tone then an extension cab is an option but qiuite expensive if you are buying new. It would pay you to have a bit of a think about what you are aiming to do before commiting too much money.

 

What is your amp for apart from making the bass louder. Is it just an on-stage monitor for you and band members to hear? Your current amp will probably do that, no need to change things in too much of a hurry.

 

Does it need to be loud enough for the audience to hear and if so how big is that audience likely to be? It's far better for the audience to hear your bass via the PA. Lot's of reasons why but mainly: a.) Something loud enough for the back of the room or outdoors is going to be literally deafening on-stage b) anything that loud is going to go through the vocal mics and a distorted version is going to go through the PA and muddy up your band's sound. It might be better and no more expensive to beef up your PA.

 

 

 

 

[Downunderwonder]

If your amp has fx send return you only need a modest powered sub with a HF out to go back to the 112. You can be as loud as you need be.