BassBros

[tegs07]

Anything that you buy from a dealer be it a car, instrument, watch, antique clock is going to cost more than from a private sale. The reasons have already been listed.

I don’t think musicians have any reason to grumble about prices of instruments. If you’re not looking at the vintage or premium end of the market then prices and quality are still fantastic compared to most other periods in history. G&L tribute series, Harley Benton etc etc are still stonking good value for money.

Edited May 24 by tegs07

[ead]

14 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

 

It's because flipping breaks the social bond we have here as members and transgresses a moral code. 

 

As members here, we have a relationship to one another. While we may not physically be close, we consider forum members to be friends and as such we enter transactions with this perspective. Businesses buy cheap and sell high. Friends will (by and large) offer you a fair price and not seek to profit from your relationship.

 

People who buy and sell for a profit are acting against this moral code. It's even more egregious when it happens on a forum (someone buys cheap on BC and advertisers for a higher price). 

 

As an example of how this relationship can impact you, I bought a bass here for £1300. I held it for a year and then called a London shop for a trade in price. The cash offer I received was £2300. The seller here (trusted member, good guy) had sold to me cheaply. (this was during COVID when prices for all US imports and bespoke basses went through the roof).

 

I could have just pocketed the money. Instead we had a chat and agreed to split the difference. In the end, we both got £500 more than we had expected and all felt good about the world.

 

Fair enough, but if after several months a very reasonably priced instrument doesn't see on here then the whole moral code argument somewhat dissembles itself.  A seller might quite reasonably want to buy something on here with the cash he hopes to realise from a sale, and if selling a bass elsewhere allows that to happen then where's the problem?

[Burns-bass]

36 minutes ago, ead said:

 

Fair enough, but if after several months a very reasonably priced instrument doesn't see on here then the whole moral code argument somewhat dissembles itself.  A seller might quite reasonably want to buy something on here with the cash he hopes to realise from a sale, and if selling a bass elsewhere allows that to happen then where's the problem?

I have no problem with that at all. My point was about flipping.

 

People are cash strapped and need whatever they can. I don’t begrudge it or get upset by it. I was trying to explain why people take personal offence to it.

 

I’ve sold most of my stuff through eBay and insist on collection.

[bassbiscuits]

I don’t think 10-15 years ago vintage 70s basses were seen as undesirable.
 

We are only talking 2009-2014 after all. Hardly ancient history.  

[gjones]

On 24/05/2024 at 13:21, Burns-bass said:

 

It's because flipping breaks the social bond we have here as members and transgresses a moral code. 

 

As members here, we have a relationship to one another. While we may not physically be close, we consider forum members to be friends and as such we enter transactions with this perspective. Businesses buy cheap and sell high. Friends will (by and large) offer you a fair price and not seek to profit from your relationship.

 

People who buy and sell for a profit are acting against this moral code. It's even more egregious when it happens on a forum (someone buys cheap on BC and advertisers for a higher price). 

 

As an example of how this relationship can impact you, I bought a bass here for £1300. I held it for a year and then called a London shop for a trade in price. The cash offer I received was £2300. The seller here (trusted member, good guy) had sold to me cheaply. (this was during COVID when prices for all US imports and bespoke basses went through the roof).

 

I could have just pocketed the money. Instead we had a chat and agreed to split the difference. In the end, we both got £500 more than we had expected and all felt good about the world.

 

The world needs more people like you

 

[wateroftyne]

10 hours ago, bassbiscuits said:

I don’t think 10-15 years ago vintage 70s basses were seen as undesirable.
 

We are only talking 2009-2014 after all. Hardly ancient history.  

 

It's not, but 10-15 years does make a difference. That's how it works.

[Reggaebass]

10 years ago I knew people that were collecting 60s and 70s fenders so I wouldn’t say they were undesirable, obviously not as popular as they are now 

[bassbiscuits]

13 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

 

It's not, but 10-15 years does make a difference. That's how it works.

I was more freaked out that 2009 was 15 years ago!

 

[Owen]

2 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

10 years ago I knew people that were collecting 60s and 70s fenders so I wouldn’t say they were undesirable, obviously not as popular as they are now 

We knew in the late 80's that anything pre CBS was good and anything post CBS was bad.

 

Now people know that anything before 198* is good and anything after 198* is bad.

 

This is nothing new.

[Machines]

1 hour ago, Owen said:

We knew in the late 80's that anything pre CBS was good and anything post CBS was bad.

 

Now people know that anything before 198* is good and anything after 198* is bad.

 

This is nothing new.

Waiting for my pre-vintage 2005 MIM P-Bass to be collectable.

[binky_bass]

On 24/05/2024 at 13:21, Burns-bass said:

 

It's because flipping breaks the social bond we have here as members and transgresses a moral code. 

 

As members here, we have a relationship to one another. While we may not physically be close, we consider forum members to be friends and as such we enter transactions with this perspective. Businesses buy cheap and sell high. Friends will (by and large) offer you a fair price and not seek to profit from your relationship.

 

People who buy and sell for a profit are acting against this moral code. It's even more egregious when it happens on a forum (someone buys cheap on BC and advertisers for a higher price). 

 

As an example of how this relationship can impact you, I bought a bass here for £1300. I held it for a year and then called a London shop for a trade in price. The cash offer I received was £2300. The seller here (trusted member, good guy) had sold to me cheaply. (this was during COVID when prices for all US imports and bespoke basses went through the roof).

 

I could have just pocketed the money. Instead we had a chat and agreed to split the difference. In the end, we both got £500 more than we had expected and all felt good about the world.

I've have no problem with selling low if I want rid of something or need quick cash knowing that someone with more time could sell it on for more, nor do I have any morale issue with buying something from someone at an agreed price and selling it on for whatever I choose to sell it on for at a later date.

 

I assume you have a job, and that job pays you for a service you do, and that company aims to make some level of profit from whatever they do? Same game really, unfortunately the world wouldnt turn without the concept of profit and loss.

 

Some may see you keeping half of that extra £1000 as profiteering by £500 when, by your morale code, the original seller should have been given the full amount, and some would deem it a kind gesture in a world without enough kindness. Horse for courses and all that.

 

my position is that as long as no one is getting scammed, if I agree to buy or sell something for a particular price, what happens to that item after that mutual agreement is no one else's business but the person who owns that item legally at that moment. 

 

In a personal context, I sold a bass to someone on here years ago for £1100, which was already £300 more than I'd paid for it from eBay the year before, they then sold it for £3000 via an ad published on here shortly after. I sold it for a price that was acceptable to me, they sold it on for more as they were willing to wait for a buyer. Good for them!

Edited May 28 by binky_bass

[Burns-bass]

17 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

I've got no problem with selling low if I want rid of something or need quick cash knowing that someone with more time could sell it on for more, nor do I have any morale issue with buying something from someone at an agreed price and selling it for whatever I choose to sell it for at a later date. I assume you have a job, and that job pays your for a service you do, and that company aims to make some level of profit from whatever they do? Same game really, unfortunatelythe world wouldnt turn without the concept of profit and loss. Some may see you keeping half of that extra £1000 as profiteering by £500 when by your morale code they should have got the full amount, some would deem it a kind gesture in a world without enough kindness. Horse for courses and all that, but as long as no one is getting scammed, if I agree to buy or sell something for a particular price, what happens to that item after that mutual agreement is no ones business but who owns that item legally at that moment. I sold a bass to someone on here years ago for £1100, which was already £300 more than I'd paid for it from eBay the year before, they then sold it for £3000 via an ad published on here shortly after. I sold it for a price that was acceptable to me, they sold it on for more as they were willing to wait for a buyer. 

It’s hard to read this block of text, but from what I can surmise, your position is absolutely fine and understandable.

 

However, many people on here would  find someone buying something cheaply here and immediately selling on the same forum for a profit as going against the spirit of the forum somehow. That was what I was attempting to explain. 

 

I run my own business (and have done for years) and I encounter some moral dilemmas while doing so. I’ve always tried to reach the highest standards (but regularly fail to do so). What I wouldn’t do is to intentionally mislead someone or make a profit at their expense. 

 

[binky_bass]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

It’s hard to read this block of text, but from what I can surmise, your position is absolutely fine and understandable.

De-blocked for you! (Was a quick type so riddled with punctuation issues! Probably still is...)

[Burns-bass]

42 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

De-blocked for you! (Was a quick type so riddled with punctuation issues! Probably still is...)

It’s all good and it doesn’t matter. We’re all on the same side!

[binky_bass]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

It’s all good and it doesn’t matter. We’re all on the same side!

Never! We MUST fight! 12 rounds of over-arm bare knuckle boxing... Winner gets the losers kidneys. 

Edited May 28 by binky_bass

[GuyR]

8 hours ago, Owen said:

We knew in the late 80's that anything pre CBS was good and anything post CBS was bad.

 

Now people know that anything before 198* is good and anything after 198* is bad.

 

This is nothing new.

Agreed. In the early 80s Fender & Squier reissues were produced precisely to capitalise on the demand for preCBS instruments. In 1983 I bought a £220 JV Squier because I didn’t have the £1000 required for a sunburst 62 Jazz bass or £2200 for the scruffy Oly white example in the window of Andy’s in Denmark St. 
 

Prices subsequently continued to rise in relation to standard contemporary US product, but they were already elevated 40 years ago, not just the last 10-15 years.

 

On the subject of the moral compass of forumites here, the good natured exchange above between two members with opposing views is a fair reflection of the difference between this and other platforms. I don’t buy to sell on, but once I have owned a bass for a couple of years, I wouldn’t feel obliged to share any uplift in value, in the same way I wouldn’t invoice the previous owner were I to incur a loss.

[peteb]

Sorry, please ignore - I re-read my post and realised that I had missed the point of the post I was replying to...! 

 

Edited May 28 by peteb

[OliverBlackman]

6 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

going against the spirit of the forum somehow.

 

When I joined basschat (probably was 15 years ago) I was initially attracted to the bargains that could be had in the classifieds. But I quickly realised that it was because the BC community were passing bargains on to others by selling on for what they paid. I didn’t see much obvious flipping for profit but once I saw it on a sale of mine I lost a bit of respect for that basschatter. Also, I think since the charges came in there isn’t the same basschat spirit that used to exist in the classifieds, all be it with a few exceptions. 
 

Apart from being legal, immediately flipping for a profit isn’t a million miles away from ticket touting. 

Edited May 28 by OliverBlackman

[Burns-bass]

8 hours ago, OliverBlackman said:

When I joined basschat (probably was 15 years ago) I was initially attracted to the bargains that could be had in the classifieds. But I quickly realised that it was because the BC community were passing bargains on to others by selling on for what they paid. I didn’t see much obvious flipping for profit but once I saw it on a sale of mine I lost a bit of respect for that basschatter. Also, I think since the charges came in there isn’t the same basschat spirit that used to exist in the classifieds, all be it with a few exceptions. 
 

Apart from being legal, immediately flipping for a profit isn’t a million miles away from ticket touting. 

100% this.

 

A month ago a forum member here messaged me and offered me a bass at half the London vintage shop retail price. It was something I’ve wanted for several years and the price was only because I’m part of the BC family. 
 

If I chose to sell it on here I could ask whatever I wanted to, but morally, I’d feel duty bound to pass on the same deal to someone else.

 

This would be 100% my choice. 

 

When I talk about the morality of selling, it’s this. People can act however they wish, but I reserve the right to judge them.

 

 

[martthebass]

One thing I did note when I was selling a bass a little while ago was someone who messaged me through FB Marketplace and made a pretty lowball offer.  Now I recognised the name and while he didn't declare it I know he worked for a well known retailer and I concluded that he was looking to procure to put it through the shop.  No problem with this but was irked that he didn't declare his affiliation.

[roger]

12 minutes ago, martthebass said:

One thing I did note when I was selling a bass a little while ago was someone who messaged me through FB Marketplace and made a pretty lowball offer.  Now I recognised the name and while he didn't declare it I know he worked for a well known retailer and I concluded that he was looking to procure to put it through the shop.  No problem with this but was irked that he didn't declare his affiliation.

Hummmmm sounds familiar (me too)

[neepheid]

I've had this happen to me before too, and I did feel a little taken advantage of, yes.  It just felt a bit... grubby for want of a better word.

Edited May 29 by neepheid

[Cosmo Valdemar]

41 minutes ago, martthebass said:

One thing I did note when I was selling a bass a little while ago was someone who messaged me through FB Marketplace and made a pretty lowball offer.  Now I recognised the name and while he didn't declare it I know he worked for a well known retailer and I concluded that he was looking to procure to put it through the shop.  No problem with this but was irked that he didn't declare his affiliation.

That rings a bell...

[Burns-bass]

Name and shame?

 

I guess bass dealers are going to operate in the same pool as normal buyers and sellers. Running a business as I do you experience all manner of shady tactics as people try to carve out an advantage. I don’t take it personally.

[binky_bass]

10 minutes ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

That rings a bell...

Is this a cryptic clue by any chance?