Defretting

[JPJ]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

Another thing to consider if you veneer the whole fingerboard, is that the side position markers will then be in the wrong place for an unlined fretless. In my fretless playing days I could only get on with them being in the fretted positions if the fingerboard was very obviously lined. Otherwise I found myself continually playing slightly flat which isn't very good.

This is something I have been pondering. I think I will need to either cover the existing side dots (mid-fret position), add new ‘on the lines’ markers or if my wood working skills are up to it, do those nifty fret end markers like those shown below. I’ve got a few different veneers inbound from David Dyke’s and once I’ve received these and ripped the frets out, I’ll decide.

[JohnH89]

Dots and lines are for a little bit of guidance only . You will get used to playing by ear .

[JPJ]

1 hour ago, JohnH89 said:

Dots and lines are for a little bit of guidance only . You will get used to playing by ear .

Don’t worry John, I’m a fairly experienced fretless player, both my original Ibanez Roadstar that got me into Fretless in the first place as an 18 year old, and my Fender Tony Franklin Precision have unlined boards, and my Overwater Perception 5 string that I had defretted has the slots filled with a matching dark wood so the lines are almost invisible. 
In the case of the Warwick, fret line ends will work without having to move the existing side dots. 

[BigRedX]

9 hours ago, JohnH89 said:

Dots and lines are for a little bit of guidance only . You will get used to playing by ear .

 

I still found side dots in the wrong place too distracting, even when I knew they were in the wrong place.

[JPJ]

Well the veneers I ordered from David Dykes have arrived so I guess it’s time to rip those frets out 😬

[MoonBassAlpha]

I have 2 fretless necks for my u.s. Masters bass which show minimal wear after many years wearing roundwound strings. The boards are pao ferro and impregnated with something. The necks have a nice satin feel and I'm sure I remembered it being Tru-Oil, and I'm wondering if the fingerboard finish is the same. Has anyone used Tru-Oil on a fingerboard? I've nearly finished a short scale replacement neck for one and thinking it might be worth a try. 

[carlsim]

20 hours ago, JPJ said:

Well the veneers I ordered from David Dykes have arrived so I guess it’s time to rip those frets out 😬

 

Add a bit of heat to the fret before you do it, helps to loosen any glue that may have been used. Also, make sure you use some flat edge end cutters... tease them out very slowly and carefully and you will minimise your tear out.

 

You will probably get some, however minimal. When you sand, save the dust and feed it into any missing bits and add some CA glue. Will help to disguise any tears in the wood. If you can, keep the tears there and glue them back down. 

 

IMO, makes for a much neater job. 

[sunfish]

So what is wrong with using a tube of plastic wood to fill the slots?

[Baloney Balderdash]

10 minutes ago, sunfish said:

So what is wrong with using a tube of plastic wood to fill the slots?

Because it is not very hard or sturdy and don't offer anywhere near the same structural support as real hardwood strips, which might cause the fretboard to move in unfortunate ways over time.

 

That said Jaco allegedly used wood filler for the empty fret slots in his Bass of Doom, after removing the frets with a butter knife.

 

He did however also successively treat the whole fretboard with a layer of Epoxy.

 

Edited July 3, 2024 by Baloney Balderdash

[JPJ]

1 hour ago, carlsim said:

Also, make sure you use some flat edge end cutters…

Funny you should mention this. I bought some fret pullers off Amazon and they arrived more like cutters than pullers. After a quick introduction to my bench grinder, problem solved😎

Before

 

After

[JPJ]

Well that’s it, the frets are out. In truth they came out amazingly (or worryingly) easy with very little chip out. Next to clean up the board in readiness for slot filling. 

Edited July 3, 2024 by JPJ

[MoonBassAlpha]

I asked a question about using tru-oil on a fretless in a different thread. Do you intend finishing the surface with anything?

I have a strong suspicion my u.s. masters fretless used this. 

[JPJ]

There is definitely something on the board. It might just be lemon oil residue but I’ll know better when I’m finished sanding. 
I’m undecided on whether to coat the board or not, it’ll largely depend on how good the finish is with the veneers in. 

[JPJ]

Well I made a lot more progress than I was expecting. All fret slots are now filled and the glue is drying overnight. Tomorrow night it should just be a case of trimming the excess slot filling veneer, and sanding the fret board flat. 

[JohnH89]

Looking good mate . 😁

[Andyjr1515]

4 hours ago, MoonBassAlpha said:

I asked a question about using tru-oil on a fretless in a different thread. Do you intend finishing the surface with anything?

I have a strong suspicion my u.s. masters fretless used this. 

Slurry and buffed tru-oil works well on many fretboard woods.

[carlsim]

4 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Slurry and buffed tru-oil works well on many fretboard woods.

+1 for this… slurry and buff will look great and protect!

[BigRedX]

Are you still going to veneer the whole board?

[JPJ]

5 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Are you still going to veneer the whole board?

At this point, it looks like the slot filling is going well, so no. But I can still faff it up from here so we’ll see 😂

[JPJ]

Todays progress consisted of trimming all the veneer fillers back and sanding and sanding and sanding the fingerboard. There were a number of dips and high spots all over the board but now it’s nice and level and flat, and the fret line fillers are about as inconspicuous as I can make them. 
Next step will be building a jig to cut the fret end slot markers as I don’t trust myself to freehand these with the Dremel.

I’ve saved all the sanding dust and I have a bottle of tru oil on order. Once that gets here I’ll be attempting @Andyjr1515 slurry and buff technique on the fingerboard. 

[JohnH89]

Great work

[Andyjr1515]

Yes - looking good

 

[JPJ]

Slow progress as life and gigs get in the way but last night I cut the slots and glued in the little fillets of veneer to make the edge markers. As if this job wasn’t perilous enough, I decided to make it more difficult by putting the first twelve frets on the top of the neck and the second twelve on the bottom. No idea why I did this other than I love a challenge. 

I cut the slots freehand to pencil lines marked on masking tape using a junior hacksaw blade, which it turns out cuts perfect slots to accept 0.6mm veneer plus a little bit of PVA glue. The veneer I used was sapwood from a piece of walnut which has turned out to be a perfect balance of visibility and discretion. 

This morning I have trimmed all the fillets back flush with the fingerboard and scraped any glue residue using a sharp craft knife. Both the fingerboard and the edge will get a light sand later to tidy up and then I’ll move on to finishing the fingerboard with Tru-oil. 

Got to say I am extremely pleased (and relieved) with how this stage turned out. Still plenty of opportunities for me to cock it up royally but this was the stage that concerned me the most so I am happy that the result is as good as it is. 

Edited July 9, 2024 by JPJ

[MoonBassAlpha]

Anyone tried filling the slots with CA glue? My wife suggested something with glitter added, which maybe isn't as ridiculous as it sounds!

[JPJ]

So a light sanding of the fret markers and then the first coat of Tru-oil on the fingerboard, which was almost immediately absorbed.