Basschat Marketplace: do you haggle?

[Benjamin Bassoon]

What winds me up is people, not necessarily on here but on alternative pre-used websites, wanting more for a pre-loved item than it costs for a brand new one as they forget the VAT is included in a retail sale.

 

For example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355731951217?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160811114145%26meid%3D16ed477541de4398b1fe1a8e23c94cf8%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D355731951217%26itm%3D355731951217%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2351460%26brand%3DIbanez&_trksid=p2351460.c100667.m2042&LH_Auction=1

 

This seller wants £560.00 without VAT, but for a brand new model they are £639.00 including VAT - so £532.50 without it.

 

The same happens with cars. 

[Burns-bass]

3 minutes ago, Benjamin Bassoon said:

What winds me up is people, not necessarily on here but on alternative pre-used websites, wanting more for a pre-loved item than it costs for a brand new one as they forget the VAT is included in a retail sale.

 

For example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355731951217?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160811114145%26meid%3D16ed477541de4398b1fe1a8e23c94cf8%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D355731951217%26itm%3D355731951217%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2351460%26brand%3DIbanez&_trksid=p2351460.c100667.m2042&LH_Auction=1

 

This seller wants £560.00 without VAT, but for a brand new model they are £639.00 including VAT - so £532.50 without it.

 

The same happens with cars. 

People buy something new and don’t play but still assume they can sell it ‘as new’ - when it’s obviously considered used.

 

Always the same.

[T-Bay]

I am happy to make an offer unless the ad says no offers. But of the price is good anyway I won’t bother. Quite often there may be a difference between my valuation and the sellers, if I think it’s worth more then great I am getting a bargain, if it’s less then I don’t see any harm in making a polite offer (no stupid offers obviously).

 

Any sometimes you need to speak to someone to know it’s exactly what you need/ wheat you expect. I remember offering someone a pedal I had bought off here for exactly what it owed me, I got a snotty reply saying they wanted one at this price with a link to the ad I had bought it from, what they hadn’t checked though was that it had had an intermittent fault that had cost be £20 to get fixed. The original seller who sold it to me had been honest and I had factored in the repair cost but someone else hadn’t bothered to read the ad and put 2 and 2 together to make 5.

 

Apart from that all my dealings on here have been perfect with 100% honest and reliable sellers. It’s always my first place to look for stuff.

 

[TimR]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Bassoon said:

What winds me up is people, not necessarily on here but on alternative pre-used websites, wanting more for a pre-loved item than it costs for a brand new one as they forget the VAT is included in a retail sale.

 

For example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355731951217?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160811114145%26meid%3D16ed477541de4398b1fe1a8e23c94cf8%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D355731951217%26itm%3D355731951217%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2351460%26brand%3DIbanez&_trksid=p2351460.c100667.m2042&LH_Auction=1

 

This seller wants £560.00 without VAT, but for a brand new model they are £639.00 including VAT - so £532.50 without it.

 

The same happens with cars. 

 

You've lost me. Why would you pay VAT on a second hand item? 

[BassTractor]

5 hours ago, Benjamin Bassoon said:

This seller wants £560.00 without VAT, but for a brand new model they are £639.00 including VAT - so £532.50 without it.

 

... but then again, unless there are cultural differences I'm not aware of (quite possible, and I apologise in that case), that actually is the norm.
With the caveat, AFAICS, VAT simply doesn't play a role in the calculations when consumers buy and sell used goods.

As a regular consumer, the seller had paid £639 and is willing to take a £79 hit. One can debate whether that's reasonable or not, but at any rate:

this being a used item does not entitle you to first subract the VAT the now-seller had paid, before the now-seller then takes the hit.
It simply does not work that way. It might work that way in some countries though, as it's more of a cultural thing, not one of logic, maths or rules of taxation.

One can easily exchange the above numbers and items with say a 30% or 40% VAT in Countrystan, and/or a lim.ed. item of which everyone "knows" that its value will increase with roughly 10% each year. Put in some numbers and it should become apparent right away.

 

Edited June 30, 2024 by BassTractor

[Benjamin Bassoon]

4 hours ago, TimR said:

You've lost me. Why would you pay VAT on a second hand item? 

Exactly. Unless the seller is VAT registered, and as it's a private sale, they won't be, they are selling a second hand item for a figure greater than the new price would be.

 

1 hour ago, BassTractor said:

As a regular consumer, the seller had paid £639 and is willing to take a £79 hit. One can debate whether that's reasonable or not, but at any rate:

this being a used item does not entitle you to first subtract the VAT the now-seller had paid, before the now-seller then takes the hit.

This is why it winds me up. The original purchaser should take the hit of the full amount of VAT.

 

Hypothetically, I could say that I'm a self-employed musician, register myself for VAT, buy loads of equipment, use it for a while (or not), de-register for VAT and then sell the equipment on. I could make a tidy profit.

[TimR]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Bassoon said:

Hypothetically, I could say that I'm a self-employed musician, register myself for VAT, buy loads of equipment, use it for a while (or not), de-register for VAT and then sell the equipment on. I could make a tidy profit.

 

That's not how it works.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Bassoon said:

Exactly. Unless the seller is VAT registered, and as it's a private sale, they won't be, they are selling a second hand item for a figure greater than the new price would be.

 

Why does it matter. As far as anyone is concerned it is the price, as it is the price they would pay if they bought from the shop. But the thing is, the reason people don't pay that sort of price is down to warrantee and support etc. If I buy something from a shop I get to return it to that shop if anything goes wrong, if I buy anything from a person I don't, so it has less value. If it was only 20% more new, I would just get the new.

 

But even if it wasn't, why does it bother you? If someone is selling something at more than you want to pay, you just don't buy it, so it has no impact on you at all.

[Steve Browning]

24 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

That's not how it works.

It can do if the amount of VAT is below the threshold. 

[ped]

Tell you what’s even more annoying than a buyer haggling - the seller, specifically on eBay. 
 

Take for example yesterday I spent a good hour looking at Russian cameras on eBay. This morning I have six ‘offers’ from sellers, each comes with a notification, an email and a pop up in the app which I then need to mark as read (this is all in app, so doesn’t include any push/badges) and after that they still show for a week or so as offers on my home page which I must either ignore or decline, even if I had no intention of buying anyway. 

[neepheid]

5 minutes ago, ped said:

Tell you what’s even more annoying than a buyer haggling - the seller, specifically on eBay. 
 

Take for example yesterday I spent a good hour looking at Russian cameras on eBay. This morning I have six ‘offers’ from sellers, each comes with a notification, an email and a pop up in the app which I then need to mark as read (this is all in app, so doesn’t include any push/badges) and after that they still show for a week or so as offers on my home page which I must either ignore or decline, even if I had no intention of buying anyway. 

 

Stop hatewatching stuff on eBay then

 

[dmccombe7]

I don't buy and sell a lot but i've never offered lower than the asking price on BC. I like to think there's a mutual respect. 

Obviously i won't go for something that i believe is well over its value to me. Likewise i tend to advertise things cheaper here than elsewhere.

I don't recall anyone making an offer on BC tho. Usually the buyer pays the asking price.

Had a lot of chancers elsewhere tho. I try not to be rude to anyone making an offer as you never know when you might be desperate for cash.  

Dave

[TimR]

10 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

It can do if the amount of VAT is below the threshold. 

 

If you deregister you are supposed to account for any VAT on stock and pay any output tax.

 

[ped]

42 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

Stop hatewatching stuff on eBay then

 

 

I wouldn't mind so much if it was for things I was watching, but it does it for things I've merely viewed. As a seller I have been asked to 'message all viewers with an offer'. Conversely, sometimes I get 'watched item reminders' for items which I am not, or never have, watched. 

[neepheid]

13 minutes ago, ped said:

 

I wouldn't mind so much if it was for things I was watching, but it does it for things I've merely viewed. As a seller I have been asked to 'message all viewers with an offer'. Conversely, sometimes I get 'watched item reminders' for items which I am not, or never have, watched. 

 

Creepy buggers!

[Burns-bass]

2 hours ago, ped said:

 

I wouldn't mind so much if it was for things I was watching, but it does it for things I've merely viewed. As a seller I have been asked to 'message all viewers with an offer'. Conversely, sometimes I get 'watched item reminders' for items which I am not, or never have, watched. 

 

I was wondering about this as well. It's really annoying!

[acidbass]

Yes

[Steve Browning]

8 hours ago, TimR said:

 

If you deregister you are supposed to account for any VAT on stock and pay any output tax.

 

I suggest you read para 7.1 of Public Notice 700/11.

Edited July 1, 2024 by Steve Browning

[woodyratm]

I don't mind people offering if it's sensible. If something is listed at 500 quid, don't offer 100!  

 

More annoying is a PM being like "You've priced this insanely high yada yada". Then the item sells for the requested price elsewhere.

 

[la bam]

I've no issues haggling or being haggled. What is completely unacceptable is arranging a price then on pick up trying to haggle some more. That's a no no. 

[roger]

54 minutes ago, la bam said:

I've no issues haggling or being haggled. What is completely unacceptable is arranging a price then on pick up trying to haggle some more. That's a no no. 

Can’t believe anyone would have the nerve!🤦

[casapete]

1 hour ago, la bam said:

I've no issues haggling or being haggled. What is completely unacceptable is arranging a price then on pick up trying to haggle some more. That's a no no. 

I agree, although I would say that it is acceptable if the description / photos in the listing weren't

being completely honest. I can never see the point of being economical with the truth like this, as

you'll always get found out. I've walked away a couple of times when the item being sold doesn't

meet the condition stated. Good honest photos are always a big tick.

[la bam]

7 hours ago, roger said:

Can’t believe anyone would have the nerve!🤦

 

Luckily, no one on here - but Facebook / Gumtree etc - different game! 

[dmccombe7]

Because i won't post much of my gear i have taken some money off if the person has genuinely come a fair distance to collect but only if they haven't asked and i will wait until they've paid me and then give them something back to help with their fuel costs. 

Now you'll all be expecting something back after payment is made. Wish i had kept my big gob shut. 

I have to say i don't do that for someone that lives 10 miles along the road from me 

Dave

Edited July 2, 2024 by dmccombe7

[Mokl]

23 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

I suggest you read para 7.1 of Public Notice 700/11.

So the max you could potentially profit by would be less than a grand? 

 

I genuinely don't know how it works, and I appreciate your idea was hypothetical, but it doesn't seem like it'd be worth the effort to me? 

 

Interesting point though 🤔