Powered bass cab / active bass cab for use with a Kemper

[vinorange]

I have a Kemper with some brilliant bass tones loaded so don't want to go down the amp / can route for my backline requirements.

Just wondering if anyone has experience of a decent powered speaker / active bass cab?

I've seen Blackstar unity active cabs and Berg IPs but has anyone tried a similar setup or have any advice please?

Ta.

[warwickhunt]

Would a 'monitor' not be as good/better.  It doesn't need to be FRFR, I had a Kemper and I trialled it with various options inc into the power section of a bass rig and an RCF310 was as good as any combination that I tried.  I actually got a QSC K10 to use with it but the Kemper wasn't for me but the QSC is still utilised in my band(s).

[jrixn1]

What kind of band, and how loud do you need to be?  What equivalent traditional rig would you use if you weren't going down this route?  Any budget or weight limit?

[vinorange]

37 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

What kind of band, and how loud do you need to be?  What equivalent traditional rig would you use if you weren't going down this route?  Any budget or weight limit?

Great questions. 3 piece, guitar, bass, drums, rock and indie. Not especially noisy. Just enough to compete with acoustic drums. Guitarist isn’t too loud. No FoH yet as it’s early days. If I was using a traditional rig I’d probably pick 400w and a 2x12. Budget preferably sub £750 and I’d prefer light as I don’t fancy lifting ceramic drivers in a birch cab any more……I did use Eden and Tech 21 VT500 previously for a bright zingy but deep tone.

Thanks for your reply.

[Hellzero]

If you have the money, Vin, this will be the awesome, if not the best...

 

https://www.bassdirect.co.uk/product/grbass-at-410-800/

 

[jrixn1]

A good 12" active speaker will match a drummer for volume.  I'd definitely put on the shortlist the RCF ART 732-A MK4.  The newer MK5 only recently came out, so you can find deals on the MK4: https://www.pmtonline.co.uk/rcf-art-732-a-mk4-digital-active-pa-speaker. £599 is a good price - I paid £665 for mine in 2018.

 

The bigger 15" brother is the 745-A and there's a used one currently at Kenny's for £649 - https://www.kennysmusic.co.uk/rcf-art-745-active-speaker-pre-owned-p6837 - or perhaps basschat's own https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/483139-2x-rcf-745a-price-drop-to-%C2%A31100/ at £550, if he will split the pair.

 

 

Edited June 25 by jrixn1

[vinorange]

9 hours ago, Hellzero said:

If you have the money, Vin, this will be the awesome, if not the best...

 

https://www.bassdirect.co.uk/product/grbass-at-410-800/

 

Unfortunately my Euromillions number didn’t come in. Thanks Tony I will keep a watch for one.

[Skybone]

Laney are making some nice looking FRFR cabs: Laney FRFR

 

At GAK: Laney LFR-212 £549

[warwickhunt]

Personally I'd be getting one of these... https://www.thomann.de/gb/rcf_art_310_a_mk_iv.htm

 

[Pea Turgh]

8 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Personally I'd be getting one of these... https://www.thomann.de/gb/rcf_art_310_a_mk_iv.htm

 

That seems like a great package.  I will need to buy a new amp at some point, but this one comes with a cab too!

[Pirellithecat]

Hmm .....if I've read this correctly, the "speaker" you're looking for will provide the on stage and FOH volume i.e. not via PA? 
I've tried monitors, and RCF Art 710's with a view to doing this and, I have to say, I wouldn't go that route. 

The GR solution seems like a great idea,  and there are also some nice Combo's from Mark Bass and Ashdown (2nd hand?) - even some "Kick Back" versions. 
Something like ...https://www.pmtonline.co.uk/ashdown-rm-c115t-500-evo-bass-combo

A couple of bass players I know play in Rock three/4piece bands using these - and the sound defies the size!!!   So, an easy lift and certainly not more difficult than an eg. RCF 732.  

The Kemper can just go into the PreAmp section "flat" or into the FX return if that's important, although the pre-amp section might work out as a simple "fix" for different room acoustics rahter than changing the core Kemper settings for different rooms?? 

it might, of course , be that I'm a luddite ......... 

[jrixn1]

4 hours ago, Skybone said:

Laney are making some nice looking FRFR cabs: Laney FRFR

 

Do you have one?  Isn't it for guitar?

[Skybone]

4 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

 

Do you have one?  Isn't it for guitar?

Don't have one, but I do like the look of them. If it's an FRFR, then it should be capable of handling bass as well as guitar. I'm assuming that they're just marketing them at guitarists because no one expects a bass player to be up to speed with digital modelling...  

 

There don't seem to be too many bass-specific powered cabs available. Started a thread about it a while ago.

[vinorange]

9 hours ago, Skybone said:

Laney are making some nice looking FRFR cabs: Laney FRFR

 

At GAK: Laney LFR-212 £549

Reading some reviews on the FRFR route for bass and many seem to say they just don't cut it for bass.

Psychologically I'm drawn to something that looks like a bass cab - no doubt due to standing front of one for years.

GR and Berg look good.

I take it the blackstar unity series are much lower quality.

[jezzaboy]

If you need a powered speaker that will cover as a your backline in a decent sized pub without going through the pa, get a RCF 715 or similar. I have been using one for a while in a loud rock band with a loud drummer and 2 Marshall valve amps and it does the job easily. The beauty of the RCF is you just plug in your choice of pre amp and the built in FIRPHASE tech does the rest.

 

I bought a Ashdown ABM 500 1 x 15 combo a few months back for sentimental reasons and it was heavier and no where near as loud as the RCF so the Ashdown is now gone. I would recommend that you buy a decent make such as RCF, Yamaha, QSC etc.

[warwickhunt]

1 hour ago, vinorange said:

Reading some reviews on the FRFR route for bass and many seem to say they just don't cut it for bass.

 

 

Hmmmm, not sure about that!  

 

I have a QSC K10 (10" 1000w) and I defy you to close your eyes and tell me if it is that (PA) monitor or a full blown 2x12 / 4x10 BASS cab... in fact I did the experiment on here.  

 

 

[vinorange]

49 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

Hmmmm, not sure about that!  

 

I have a QSC K10 (10" 1000w) and I defy you to close your eyes and tell me if it is that (PA) monitor or a full blown 2x12 / 4x10 BASS cab... in fact I did the experiment on here.  

 

 

Very interesting listening.

I'll give the full range speakers a serious think. After all I never complained about the PA sound front of house fed from my amps when I was gigging and they're more than capable of handling bass (fairly obviously...

[BigRedX]

17 hours ago, vinorange said:

Reading some reviews on the FRFR route for bass and many seem to say they just don't cut it for bass.

 

Definitely not my experience with the FRFR (RCF 745) that I have. 

 

Because of the nature of a lot of the gigs I do where there is a great PA and excellent monitoring it only gets used for rehearsals and about half the gigs that one of my bands does. However for those it is perfect. I've needed to use it twice in venues where the PA was strictly vocals only, and due to the better dispersal characteristics of the FRFR it was far better than the traditional bass rig it replaced in that I only had to be slightly louder on stage than I would normally choose, as opposed to so loud I could barely hear the rest of the band. Plus it's about a quarter the size of my previous rig, and will fit in a lot of places on stage where there wouldn't be room for traditional bass cabs. I can't see myself ever going back to a conventional bass amp and cabs.

[aniki]

On 26/06/2024 at 17:10, vinorange said:

Reading some reviews on the FRFR route for bass and many seem to say they just don't cut it for bass.

I'm using 4x 15" cabs at the moment; a pair of Oranges and a pair of Fenders. They all have full range drivers in and I can assure you, they very much 'cut it' for bass 🤩

[Owen]

On 26/06/2024 at 00:53, jrixn1 said:

A good or perhaps basschat's own https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/483139-2x-rcf-745a-price-drop-to-%C2%A31100/ at £550, if he will split the pair.

 

 

If I were you I would buy both and sell one on at cost. That price is very right. 

[Hellzero]

Maybe you try to source an old Atomic Reactor FR FR passive wedge (1x12 + 1x1" Eminence based speakers, L-pad and filter) and use (or better, integrate) a decent power amp like the GSS as it can handle 250 Watts, and goes down to 50 Hz and up to to 20 kHz.

[WinterMute]

As noted elsewhere the QSC K12.2 is a fine pair for any of the decent modellers provided you are modelling the whole bass rig, amps and cabs, it's got a 2K amp in a bomb-proof enclosure that's a 1 hand lift, it can be used as a monitor or an upright backline unit, it sounds great and even has a "bass amp" profile in the preamp menu, although I use mine in PA mode and do all the work in the Quad Cortex.

 

It's easily loud enough to compete with a hard-hitting rock drummer and slightly psychotic guitarist, and the 12" driver copes very well with the B on my 5 string basses. It doesn't quite have the rage and authority of a Barefaced Big Twin T with a 1500w QSC power amp, but it's genuinely not that far away.

 

The line out XLR is great for connecting to PA's, no need for mics or DI boxes unless your engineer likes a clean bass sound at the desk to mix with the modelled sound.

 

They come up fairly regularly on EvilBay and occasionally on here.

[BigRedX]

9 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

As noted elsewhere the QSC K12.2 is a fine pair for any of the decent modellers provided you are modelling the whole bass rig, amps and cabs

 

Why do you need amp and cab models? In real life their primary function is to make your line or instrument level signal loud enough to hear over the drummer. 

 

All a modelled amp does is give you a pre-set EQ curve with some adjustments, and is out-performed by any number of dedicated EQ modules. A bass cab is essentially just a low pass filter. IME adding amp and cab models to my Helix signal chain makes the overall sound much worse. I do use a couple of guitar amp models mostly because I either like the EQ frequencies or the drive sound. The rest of my patches don't have any amp or cab models and sound all the better for it.

 

Remember that a lot of classic recorded bass sounds are the bass guitar straight into the desk or studio EQ unit, and haven't been anywhere near a traditional bass rig.

[WinterMute]

You answered your own question there, the drive characteristics of amps sound markedly different to overdrive pedals or pre amps into typically clean power amp stages, it's about the tone.

 

I'll use whatever I need to get the sound I want for the track I'm working on, if that needs a clean DI, I have the RND Shelford channel...

 

Modelling has got to the point where you can reliably replace a signature sound amp with it's model, and no EQ on earth will give you the sound of an SVT2 into an 8x10.

 

Horses for courses as they say. 

[Muzz]

I have a QSC 12.2, I've only used it once (more to do with the size of stages and rooms we play, besides which I'm inears most of the time these days) for backline (no FOH support for once, I just wanted to give it a run out) and it was easily loud enough for the stooopidly loud pub band I play in. I wouldn't hesitate to use it with a pair of Marshall/412 geetards if I'm ever in that position again, it'd definitely cope with headroom to spare. I just ran 'my sound(s)' from the Stomp into it, and hey presto, there they were, only louder. Much louder....  Plus the wedge shape means you can properly hear it onstage - I've had some traditional cabs before and the sound was whizzing past my knees and melting the audience's faces, where I was struggling to hear it...

Edited July 3 by Muzz