Zoom B3 help needed!!

[carlsim]

Hi everyone… 

I’m quite a seasoned player, 25 plus years of function gigs, theatre stuff and reading and it is only recent that I have started using fx. 
I love synths and do a lot of production work on synths for someone who runs a audio production company - new gigs means I need  to produce a cool 80s synth bass sound and not being a live keys player, I’m trying to achieve that on bass.

so, I start researching and found this:

a great sound… 

I notice it’s listed as produced on a B3. So I do a bit reading and find out that an Zoom Cdr70 can do it… so I buy one and struggle to get anywhere near this.

so I buy a B3… and still I struggle. I understand synthesis in detail. But I cannot get anywhere near this sound.

tracking doesn’t seem to work well when I play, is it a gain thing?

im running the b3 on the fx loop of my Radial bassbone. Has anyone with a B3 been able to get near this sound? 
if so… what are the settings? I quite like the rest of it but I really want a decent synth bass. Is there a technique thing I need to embrace? I get it is going to be more monophonic, but I just can’t get anywhere near this.

can anyone help? Or offer some advice as to what I should be looking at? I’m trying not to spend loads of dosh but, if needs must! 
having said that… if a b3 is used in this video, what am I doing wrong?

i have messaged the person in the video but had no reply…

any advice is most welcome. I have listed the 70cdr and B3 for sale in the classified due to frustration, but would definitely keep one if I can get there with this!

 

cheers in advance for any help…

 

carl.

[Baloney Balderdash]

15 hours ago, carlsim said:

Hi everyone… 

I’m quite a seasoned player, 25 plus years of function gigs, theatre stuff and reading and it is only recent that I have started using fx. 
I love synths and do a lot of production work on synths for someone who runs a audio production company - new gigs means I need  to produce a cool 80s synth bass sound and not being a live keys player, I’m trying to achieve that on bass.

so, I start researching and found this:

a great sound… 

I notice it’s listed as produced on a B3. So I do a bit reading and find out that an Zoom Cdr70 can do it… so I buy one and struggle to get anywhere near this.

so I buy a B3… and still I struggle. I understand synthesis in detail. But I cannot get anywhere near this sound.

tracking doesn’t seem to work well when I play, is it a gain thing?

im running the b3 on the fx loop of my Radial bassbone. Has anyone with a B3 been able to get near this sound? 
if so… what are the settings? I quite like the rest of it but I really want a decent synth bass. Is there a technique thing I need to embrace? I get it is going to be more monophonic, but I just can’t get anywhere near this.

can anyone help? Or offer some advice as to what I should be looking at? I’m trying not to spend loads of dosh but, if needs must! 
having said that… if a b3 is used in this video, what am I doing wrong?

i have messaged the person in the video but had no reply…

any advice is most welcome. I have listed the 70cdr and B3 for sale in the classified due to frustration, but would definitely keep one if I can get there with this!

 

cheers in advance for any help…

 

carl.

 

I am a big fan of that generation of Zoom digital effects, I use a Zoom B1Xon that has a central spot in my setup myself, and I am certain both the MS-70CDR and B3 would be able to do this, using one of the specific synth effect models in them.

 

However I never really used the synth effects in mine, so afraid I won't be able to help you.

 

But perhaps one of these other experienced Zoom multi effect users can? :

@andruca @stewblack

 

Edited July 2 by Baloney Balderdash

[BigRedX]

There's a really irritating squelchy click on the attack of all the "synth" bits that sounds like something in the signal chain overloading.

[Baloney Balderdash]

9 hours ago, BigRedX said:

There's a really irritating squelchy click on the attack of all the "synth" bits that sounds like something in the signal chain overloading.

I am pretty sure I know what you mean, but personally I like how that sounds.

 

It gives the synth sound definition as far as I am concerned, rather than just being one smooth sausage.

 

It probably comes from how the clean fretless bass sound mixes with the the synth sound, and I think you could get around it by refraining from mixing in clean tone.

 

Edited July 2 by Baloney Balderdash

[pete.young]

I've played about with the various synth settings inn the MS-60B but didn't get any real satisfaction until I bought an SY1.

 

Your playing needs to be very clean to help the tracking.

 

I'd use the Z-Syn effect if that's available on the B3- this is supposed to be a clone of a Korg G5 and I think it is about the best sounding of the synth patches though not close to a real G5.

I'd put a compressor patch upstream of the Z-Syn, probably 160 Comp. This will help with the tracking.

The track details also mention an OC5. If you have to use a slot for an octaver I find that PitchSHFT is a bit more predictable than Ba Octave.

 

If you don't need a slot for the octaver, I'd use the 3rd slot to add an EQ to take out some of the bass signal upstream of the synth, this will take out some of the tracking issues. Alternatively, adding a chorus is sometimes a useful dodge to fatten up a synth sound.

 

Now you see why you need 5 slots, not 3!

[Baloney Balderdash]

35 minutes ago, pete.young said:

I've played about with the various synth settings inn the MS-60B but didn't get any real satisfaction until I bought an SY1.

 

Your playing needs to be very clean to help the tracking.

 

I'd use the Z-Syn effect if that's available on the B3- this is supposed to be a clone of a Korg G5 and I think it is about the best sounding of the synth patches though not close to a real G5.

I'd put a compressor patch upstream of the Z-Syn, probably 160 Comp. This will help with the tracking.

The track details also mention an OC5. If you have to use a slot for an octaver I find that PitchSHFT is a bit more predictable than Ba Octave.

 

If you don't need a slot for the octaver, I'd use the 3rd slot to add an EQ to take out some of the bass signal upstream of the synth, this will take out some of the tracking issues. Alternatively, adding a chorus is sometimes a useful dodge to fatten up a synth sound.

 

Now you see why you need 5 slots, not 3!

The Zoom Ms-70CDR allows for using up to 6 effect slots per patch, the B3 only 3.

 

Also while I genuinely think a lot of the this generation digital Zoom effect models sound genuinely great the octavers and pitch shifter effect models definitely aren't among those, pretty terrible sounding if you ask me.

 

The 160 comp model is a great sounding compressor though, good call.

 

The EQ models are as good as any, and most of the modulation, reverb and delay effects, with the right amount of tweaking, are genuinely great as well in these units (the effects in these units in general is all about allowing for much more tweaking than most other digital effects in other multi effects including the later Zoom generations, and part of why I love this generation of digital Zoom effects in particular).

 

Amp and drive emulations are pretty crappy however, unless you are going for a crappy digital sounding drive effect, and the octaver/pitchshifer effect models are truly horrible, again unless what you are going for is a crappy glitchy pitchshifting effect.

 

And while the synth models are actually decent in these units, the Boss SY-1 definitely would be a much better choice if synth sounds is the primary concern.

 

 

Edited July 2 by Baloney Balderdash

[mcnach]

She seems to be using a Boss OC-5 for the octave, so that might be one reason the tracking is cleaner (the Zoom's octavers are passable at best). And of course, the fretless helps with the flow.

 

 

[tauzero]

You could always add a comment to the Youtube video asking her for her settings.

[stewblack]

10 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

 

I am a big fan of that generation of Zoom digital effects, I use a Zoom B1Xon that has a central spot in my setup myself, and I am certain both the MS-70CDR and B3 would be able to do this, using one of the specific synth effect models in them.

 

However I never really used the synth effects in mine, so afraid I won't be able to help you.

 

But perhaps one of these other experienced Zoom multi effect users can? :

@andruca @stewblack

 

I've had a B3, but a while ago now. In my experience the Zoom Bass effects excel at useable synth sounds. There's enough flexibility built in to the various options to enable the user to come up with something decent.

[pete.young]

On 02/07/2024 at 23:10, stewblack said:

I've had a B3, but a while ago now. In my experience the Zoom Bass effects excel at useable synth sounds. There's enough flexibility built in to the various options to enable the user to come up with something decent.

 

In my experience, the Zoom bass effects don't excel at anything, except maybe some of the compressor patches. Everything else is more aimed at allowing you to experiment with a lot of different effects for not very much money, and then buy something more expensive that actually does excel.

 

The other way to go about this may be to eschew the synth patches in favour of some combination of fuzz (if there is a gated option, good), envelope filter, autowah and octave. You might get close to the kind of bass sound on 'I wanna dance with somebody' with this combination.

Bearing in mind that if all you have is a B3, you can only have 3 of these so pick the least worst solution.

 

Ultimately, it's probably quicker, easier and cheaper to polish your keyboard skills until you are a live keyboard player, at least for basslines. It's not as hard as you'd think, especially if you use both hands!

[Baloney Balderdash]

18 hours ago, pete.young said:

 

In my experience, the Zoom bass effects don't excel at anything, except maybe some of the compressor patches. Everything else is more aimed at allowing you to experiment with a lot of different effects for not very much money, and then buy something more expensive that actually does excel.

 

The other way to go about this may be to eschew the synth patches in favour of some combination of fuzz (if there is a gated option, good), envelope filter, autowah and octave. You might get close to the kind of bass sound on 'I wanna dance with somebody' with this combination.

Bearing in mind that if all you have is a B3, you can only have 3 of these so pick the least worst solution.

 

Ultimately, it's probably quicker, easier and cheaper to polish your keyboard skills until you are a live keyboard player, at least for basslines. It's not as hard as you'd think, especially if you use both hands!

As I already replied to you once he got a MS-70CDR, which is also stated in the OP, which allows for using up to 6 effect slots per patch.

 

Also I would claim that pretty much no digital multi effects really excels at anything but being versatile.

 

But I still stand by my claim that the EQ models are as good as anything, and that most of the compressor, modulation, reverb and delay models are genuinely great in these Zoom multi effects, and for a lot of them it is really down to a matter of making the right adjustments and personal taste whether they are any worse than any more recent, more expensive digital multi effects, or standalone pedals for that matter. 

 

As I also stated earlier in this thread some of the very sought after digital reverb effects has lesser CPU power, resolution and bit depth than these units.

 

For some effects it is simply more important getting the algorithms right (amp and drive emulations does seems to be more picky about the capabilities of the hardware though).

 

Also you should never used the premade factory patches of any multi effect, they are usually horribly exaggerated. 

 

Edited July 5 by Baloney Balderdash

[stewblack]

19 hours ago, pete.young said:

 

In my experience, the Zoom bass effects don't excel at anything, except maybe some of the compressor patches. Everything else is more aimed at allowing you to experiment with a lot of different effects for not very much money, and then buy something more expensive that actually does excel.

 

The other way to go about this may be to eschew the synth patches in favour of some combination of fuzz (if there is a gated option, good), envelope filter, autowah and octave. You might get close to the kind of bass sound on 'I wanna dance with somebody' with this combination.

Bearing in mind that if all you have is a B3, you can only have 3 of these so pick the least worst solution.

 

Ultimately, it's probably quicker, easier and cheaper to polish your keyboard skills until you are a live keyboard player, at least for basslines. It's not as hard as you'd think, especially if you use both hands!

Well, clearly our experience differs.

[pete.young]

1 hour ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

As I already replied to you once he got a MS-70CDR, which is also stated in the OP, which allows for using up to 6 effect slots per patch.

 

Also I would claim that pretty much no digital multi effects really excels at anything but being versatile.

 

But I still stand by my claim that the EQ models are as good as anything, and that most of the compressor, modulation, reverb and delay models are genuinely great in these Zoom multi effects, and for a lot of them it is really down to a matter of making the right adjustments and personal taste whether they are any worse than any more recent, more expensive digital multi effects, or standalone pedals for that matter. 

 

As I also stated earlier in this thread some of the very sought after digital reverb effects has lesser CPU power, resolution and bit depth than these units.

 

For some effects it is simply more important getting the algorithms right (amp and drive emulations does seems to be more picky about the capabilities of the hardware though).

 

Also you should never used the premade factory patches of any multi effect, they are usually horribly exaggerated. 

 

So have you just come here to argue with me, or do you have any genuine insight which will actually help the OP to achieve his objective?

 

[Baloney Balderdash]

10 minutes ago, pete.young said:

So have you just come here to argue with me, or do you have any genuine insight which will actually help the OP to achieve his objective?

 

Funny, I could ask you the very same question.

 

Keeping referring to how he only got 3 effect per patch, when he actually got 6, and that his effects are crap, doesn't help for sure.

 

At least I paged a couple of people who I was pretty sure could actually help OP.

 

Edited July 5 by Baloney Balderdash

[tauzero]

The Zoom B3 is the effects pedal referred to in the OP and used in the video, which may provide a clue as to why the reference to three effects which is the maximum on the B3.

[Baloney Balderdash]

4 minutes ago, tauzero said:

The Zoom B3 is the effects pedal referred to in the OP and used in the video, which may provide a clue as to why the reference to three effects which is the maximum on the B3.

How about reading the actual OP again:

 

On 01/07/2024 at 22:25, carlsim said:

So I do a bit reading and find out that an Zoom Cdr70 can do it… so I buy one and struggle to get anywhere near this.

 

I have listed the 70cdr and B3 for sale in the classified due to frustration, but would definitely keep one if I can get there with this!

 

Edited July 5 by Baloney Balderdash

[tauzero]

Just now, Baloney Balderdash said:

How about reading the actual OP again.

 

I did. Why don't you read the thread title again? Don't know why I bothered reading your post, I was merely trying to enlighten you but it's like playing chess with a pigeon.

[Baloney Balderdash]

2 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

I did. Why don't you read the thread title again? Don't know why I bothered reading your post, I was merely trying to enlighten you but it's like playing chess with a pigeon.

On 01/07/2024 at 22:25, carlsim said:

So I do a bit reading and find out that an Zoom Cdr70 can do it… so I buy one and struggle to get anywhere near this.

 

I have listed the 70cdr and B3 for sale in the classified due to frustration, but would definitely keep one if I can get there with this!

 

That's a quote from the OP, as in original post.

 

Edited July 5 by Baloney Balderdash

[carlsim]

Thanks for all your helpful comments guys - I have decided not to keep the b3 (70cdr has already been sold) and am going to look at individual pedals I think… 

it seems to be the unanimous vote that multi fx units are good for certain things but will always lack somewhere… I think I will investigate the specialist synth stuff (SY1 etc.) and go from there…

cheers everyone!

[tauzero]

The B3 is pretty old tech. The successor was the B3n (improved sound and usability) and the current flagship model is the B6. They're good for the money (especially the MS pedals like the MS-70CDR) but multieffects are basically a collision between you get what you pay for and the law of diminishing returns, so splash out a bit extra on something from Line 6 like a HX Effects or Stomp and it's a step up.