Inexpensive 5 string bass with stainless steel frets?

[tretim]

Hi all

 

I'm looking for a 5 string bass with stainless steel frets as I'm allergic to nickel. I recently bought a bass with stainless steel frets but it weighs a ton so I'm thinking of returning it. Does anyone know of any preferably under £600?

[neepheid]

The new Sire Z7 has stainless frets according to the specs.  5 string is £569 at Andertons.  It's not out until August though, so couldn't tell you about weight etc.

[LeftyJ]

When specifically searching for "stainless frets" on the Thomann website, the cheapest 5-strings that pop up are the new Sire Z7-5 Stingray-inspired basses at €709 euros. Maybe have a look at these? 

 

Edit: Ha, great minds think alike! 

Edited July 2, 2024 by LeftyJ

[lemmywinks]

The Ibanez EHB 1005 and 1005MS will have stainless steel frets and are lightweight, usually around £500-£600 used.

[itu]

Comment:

Stainless AISI 304 (L = low carbon; sometimes referred as A2) has 8 to 12 % Ni in it.

AISI 316 (L; A4) has Ni 10 to 15 %.

 

Most of the steels contain Ni. All string core wires contain Ni.

 

If your fingers sweat a lot, consider washing them actively. An alcohol based liquid may dry your fingers a bit and may help.

[tretim]

Thanks all. The Sire Z7 looks great. I've sent Sire an email to check the weight. Hopefully it's not as heavy as the one I have now.

[tretim]

11 minutes ago, itu said:

Comment:

Stainless AISI 304 (L = low carbon; sometimes referred as A2) has 8 to 12 % Ni in it.

AISI 316 (L; A4) has Ni 10 to 15 %.

 

Most of the steels contain Ni. All string core wires contain Ni.

 

If your fingers sweat a lot, consider washing them actively. An alcohol based liquid may dry your fingers a bit and may help.

I have a guitar with stainless steel frets and the bass I have now has stainless steel strings on it and I've not had any issues. If I touch anything nickel plated it results in blisters after a day or two.

[neepheid]

7 minutes ago, tretim said:

Thanks all. The Sire Z7 looks great. I've sent Sire an email to check the weight. Hopefully it's not as heavy as the one I have now.

 

I doubt you'll get anything better than an estimate if anything - wood be woody.  If you look at a site such as Sweetwater in the States which publishes the weight of the actual basses they're selling (and have multiples to instantly flick betweeen), you'll find wild differences (sometimes +/- 1lb) in weight between supposedly identical basses.

 

It's really a question for the retailer, who can weigh the one(s) which are right there in front of them, not the manufacturer.  And of course, for that to happen, you're going to have to wait for them to become available.

Edited July 2, 2024 by neepheid

[tretim]

6 hours ago, neepheid said:

 

I doubt you'll get anything better than an estimate if anything - wood be woody.  If you look at a site such as Sweetwater in the States which publishes the weight of the actual basses they're selling (and have multiples to instantly flick betweeen), you'll find wild differences (sometimes +/- 1lb) in weight between supposedly identical basses.

 

It's really a question for the retailer, who can weigh the one(s) which are right there in front of them, not the manufacturer.  And of course, for that to happen, you're going to have to wait for them to become available.

You're probably right.

 

I've tried to get used to the one I got which is a fine bass but it weighs exactly 5kg and even with a good strap, it hurts my shoulder and effects my hand.

 

I'm gutted as I had to put new strings on it which cost me £30.

 

 

 

T

[Stub Mandrel]

7 hours ago, tretim said:

7 hours ago, itu said:

Comment:

Stainless AISI 304 (L = low carbon; sometimes referred as A2) has 8 to 12 % Ni in it.

AISI 316 (L; A4) has Ni 10 to 15 %.

 

Most of the steels contain Ni. All string core wires contain Ni.

 

If your fingers sweat a lot, consider washing them actively. An alcohol based liquid may dry your fingers a bit and may help.

Expand  

I have a guitar with stainless steel frets and the bass I have now has stainless steel strings on it and I've not had any issues. If I touch anything nickel plated it results in blisters after a day or two.

 

Stainless steels form a surface layer of chromium oxide that effectively insulates the user from the nickel content, or at least helps keep exposure low enough not to cause problems.

That's why most people with nickel sensitivity can still eat using stainless steel cutlery.

[itu]

28 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Stainless steels form a surface layer of chromium oxide...

True.

 

I used to work in a watch company of 500 people. Watch is in a very hostile environment when it is worn in wrist. Yes, if you could analyze the chemistry between a wrist and a watch, you'd be amazed. Leather strap has a lifetime of 6 months to three years depending on the sweat. Naturally the surrounding environment has its effects (humidity, temp etc.). Remember: a leather shoe has far longer lifetime.

 

We received reports about Ni allergy something like 100 / year. As we wanted to analyze these incidents, we opened all reports of one full year.

 

Many products did not contain any nickel at all. No Ni allergy possible from the product used. Excluded.

 

Some products contained nickel in stainless steel (316L) i.e. not in very soluble form, and not in direct skin contact. Excluded.

 

Some products contained nickel (316L) and could be in direct skin contact, some indirectly via sweat like flush screws. There we could see around 20 possible cases that might be Ni allergy. Fine. But.

 

We also saw, that many of those reported units were really dirty. Some of the units were obviously uncleaned and had been like that for a long time. To be honest, some of the units were smelling really awful.

 

I am saying that cleaning hands (skin) and the instrument is the key to lessen any possible contamination which could lead to allergic reaction. Sweat is so tough that it can react with 316L and its less noble alloys. As nickel is present in all common stainless steels, less contamination is always better - sure it is a reasonable start to not use nickel plated strings.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, itu said:

True.

 

I used to work in a watch company of 500 people. Watch is in a very hostile environment when it is worn in wrist. Yes, if you could analyze the chemistry between a wrist and a watch, you'd be amazed. Leather strap has a lifetime of 6 months to three years depending on the sweat. Naturally the surrounding environment has its effects (humidity, temp etc.). Remember: a leather shoe has far longer lifetime.

 

We received reports about Ni allergy something like 100 / year. As we wanted to analyze these incidents, we opened all reports of one full year.

 

Many products did not contain any nickel at all. No Ni allergy possible from the product used. Excluded.

 

Some products contained nickel in stainless steel (316L) i.e. not in very soluble form, and not in direct skin contact. Excluded.

 

Some products contained nickel (316L) and could be in direct skin contact, some indirectly via sweat like flush screws. There we could see around 20 possible cases that might be Ni allergy. Fine. But.

 

We also saw, that many of those reported units were really dirty. Some of the units were obviously uncleaned and had been like that for a long time. To be honest, some of the units were smelling really awful.

 

I am saying that cleaning hands (skin) and the instrument is the key to lessen any possible contamination which could lead to allergic reaction. Sweat is so tough that it can react with 316L and its less noble alloys. As nickel is present in all common stainless steels, less contamination is always better - sure it is a reasonable start to not use nickel plated strings.

 

There's a joke there about ensuring your g-string is kept clean 😉

 

[Bolo]

Would Warwick brass frets be an option? 

I'm not metallurgicaly educated, so sorry if unhelpful.

[LeftyJ]

2 hours ago, Bolo said:

Would Warwick brass frets be an option? 

I'm not metallurgicaly educated, so sorry if unhelpful.

Good call! According to Warwick, they're an alloy of copper, zinc and iron and should not contain any nickel. 

To confuse matters though, Warwick explicitly refers to their fret material as bell bronze, not brass. However, bronze would primarily be a copper and tin alloy and brass would be primarily copper and zinc - and there's no tin in Warwick's frets according to them. Some googling shows that bronze very much can contain small amounts of nickel. 

[tretim]

I've received a response from Sire about the weight of the Z7. It weighs around 5.1kg on average. So it's even heavier than the one I currently have. 

[neepheid]

18 minutes ago, tretim said:

I've received a response from Sire about the weight of the Z7. It weighs around 5.1kg on average. So it's even heavier than the one I currently have. 

 

"on average" - which means there will be lighter examples out there and heavier ones.  So back to the retailers (when they have them available) and ask the ones who care about customer service that deeply to get the scales out for you.

[tretim]

42 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

"on average" - which means there will be lighter examples out there and heavier ones.  So back to the retailers (when they have them available) and ask the ones who care about customer service that deeply to get the scales out for you.

Yes. That was based on the 5 they weighed. 

[neepheid]

2 minutes ago, tretim said:

Yes. That was based on the 5 they weighed. 

 

I'm impressed they went to such trouble for you.  Nice (potential) customer service there.

[tauzero]

5 hours ago, Bolo said:

Would Warwick brass frets be an option? 

I'm not metallurgicaly educated, so sorry if unhelpful.

 

I was wondering that, but I think "inexpensive" would rule out the Warwicks with brass frets.

[LeftyJ]

31 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

I was wondering that, but I think "inexpensive" would rule out the Warwicks with brass frets.

Not necessarily, a used Corvette Standard, Fortress One or one of the bolt-on Streamers can be found for affordable prices. The real question here is if you can find one that's light 

 

I paid €500 each for my Streamer LX and LX5 in 2013 and 2022, but their solid flamed maple body and chunky ovangkol neck make them heavy beasts despite the body's compact dimensions. 

[tretim]

44 minutes ago, LeftyJ said:

Not necessarily, a used Corvette Standard, Fortress One or one of the bolt-on Streamers can be found for affordable prices. The real question here is if you can find one that's light 

 

I paid €500 each for my Streamer LX and LX5 in 2013 and 2022, but their solid flamed maple body and chunky ovangkol neck make them heavy beasts despite the body's compact dimensions. 

I'd love a Warwick but they're out of my budget new. Cheapest I can find is this:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/warwick_rb_streamer_nti_5_sbhp.htm

 

Can't seem to find any used with the bronze frets.

 

 

[LeftyJ]

Yes, you're not going to find a new one within your budget (the cheapest at Thomann is this Corvette at 1880 GPB) but you can definitely find used ones out there. 

For example: (unfortunately not a 5-string) this Corvette Standard at 550 GBP.

[pete.young]

Go fretless. Problem solved.

[Stub Mandrel]

23 hours ago, LeftyJ said:

Good call! According to Warwick, they're an alloy of copper, zinc and iron and should not contain any nickel. 

To confuse matters though, Warwick explicitly refers to their fret material as bell bronze, not brass. However, bronze would primarily be a copper and tin alloy and brass would be primarily copper and zinc - and there's no tin in Warwick's frets according to them. Some googling shows that bronze very much can contain small amounts of nickel. 

 

It's not a strict distinction and is often blurred. Broadly brasses are copper/tin alloys, bronzes are alloys of mostly copper with anything else. But expect confusion and misdirection.

 

Warwick frets are referred to as 'bell brass' as often as 'bell bronze' although the two are distinct. You do get brass bells as well as bronze ones (there's an 8" ship's bell downstairs and it's definitely brass). Bell brass is used for some cast snare drum bodies, to make them more expensive 😉

[Bolo]

https://shop.warwick.de/de/ersatzteile-fuer-instrumente/warwick-ersatzteile/bunddraht/warwick-parts-brass-frets?c=3572&number=D0903032001564882613A1894-A00000018886

 

You can order a set and have a local luthier put them in the bass of your choice.