How was your PA last night?

[Phil Starr]

21 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Last night we did a gig with a multi band setup, but with our own PA (which seemed a bit odd, and involved fast changeovers). As usual we had our (my) PA which consists of a pair of EVOX8 speakers, in a variety of colours. I am bass speaker-less these days and go through the PA, not 100% happy with it at the moment but it works in general. The room was shiny floor, shiny ceiling, sounds like a swimming pool, resonant frequency of an E! Got it the best we could, and it sounded clear enough.

Group after us, much more professional (and tidier stage which I think was good), good lights (which were on for us too), speakers were a pair of RCF 712s on stalks on top of some furry Eurolive 1800, guitarist DI'd marshal amp, bass player, didn't see what but same thing. Mic'd drum kit. Obviously way more money than our setup. Listened to their first few songs and the vocals weren't at all clear (instruments sounded great). Just seemed way too much for the venue (would have been killer outdoors I would imagine).

 

Such a tidy stage though, jealous of that.

I'm a commited listener to other people's PA's and serial offender of industrial espionage Sometimes I even listen to the band!

 

I'd have thought your PA (at leaast as far as speakers) was a similar price, The 712's are quite a bit cheaper than your EVOX8's and the Behringer subs aren't expensive. Your set up might be more expensive even if it was the EVOX8's rather than J8's. In a way it's not a bad test of two different strategies when buying the basic PA. There's too many variables to be sure but the vocals could be down to the mics you used, eq or even just that your singer is better. The most important thing in any PA though is the fleshy bit that operates it. If it was down to the speakers it could be because the stick systems do vocals pretty well, they typically crossover at 200Hz so no crossover distortion in the vocal range and those little 3" drivers cover the vocal range best of all. The 712's would be crossed over probably higher than 2kHz so a lot of the vocals would be coming out of the mid/bass driver and 12's aren't a great starting place for vocals. The 735 and 745 would be much better with lower crossover points but really are much more expensive. Interesting though, I do like the vocal quality through the EVOX speakers.

 

[Woodinblack]

The speakers are 1 x Evox 8 and 1 Exox J8, both got when I could get them cheap (so both for under £1000). Our singer isn't particularl clear - which used to worry me then I listened to the straight recording of him, and he actually isn't that clear in general, but a few mic swaps and he is sounding about as good as he can get.

Sometimes I feel the evox lack power in some situations but they never lack clarity, going from what we had before really helped the clarity of the vocals.

From my point of view, it means I can get it all in the car, without needing something else - I couldn't transport the kit they had and I wouldn't want to lift it. A couple of times I thought the evox 12 would be nice but I couldn't carry it, I don't have the car space for it and I certainly don't have the money for it!

[Pirellithecat]

Bit of a thread migration this ..... but ...
High Pressure gig last night - Music Bar/Venue.  Awful Acoustics.
We've played there three times previously, with  "in house" sound people.
In House PA (Old RCF Tops above 18inch subs) in a kind of cupboard either side of stage.
We've always hated playing there as we can't hear anything on the stage and we feel it sounds awful out front. So we always perform badly.

Last night we asked a young local band to support us (they're really good and we want to encourage them) - I did the sound for both bands and they used our equipment. 
Bad start as the in-house PA was dead on one side - but I'd taken our tops ... just in case".  Phew! 

Took along a "borrowed" 2x2Channel GEQ unit, and a new mic (Sontronics Solo - thanks Chienmortbb!!), rolled off virtually everything below 150 Hz to compensate for two subs in relatively small space with no access to their controls! and dipped the upper-mids.  Controlled Feedback with cuts at around 8kHz +/_ .  Bass for the first time predominantly via front of house, along with 3x Vocals and 4x Drums (triggers). 

Support band sounded really good (comedy value in me running up and down between FOH and back stage, tweaking stuff as they played) with lots of comment on how good they sounded.   

And then us. 
Hadn't had time to sound check so added a "Start Number" to make sure all was well - vocalist's Dad in the audience being our "ears" . Changeover time >10mins! 
 

And it sounded great - we could hear ourselves (2 Monitors front of stage and 1 drum monitor), the audience loved it and we were invited to come back ASAP by the "Management" . 

Still a struggle to tame our (but not the Support act's) female vocals but I now realise its a feature of her VERY strong voice! 

So - great night, had a blast!
Stressful .... oh yes!
Useful, definitely!  Using a rack of GEQ's at live small venue gigs is a non starter - too big, additional complexity, and just not time to adjust once things "kick off".   Trying to deal with very strong vocals, plus feedback, plus everyone's requests for different things via monitors etc, is very hard with a mixer with only 1 mid control and 3 Aux outs.
And then, as we left our Guitarist said to the group - thanks for the Great Sound!! 
So, all in all,  major motivation to go for a small "does it all Digital Mixer" !!!! 
 

[Pirellithecat]

Wrong thread 

Edited August 6 by Pirellithecat
Wrong thread!

[Phil Starr]

7 hours ago, Pirellithecat said:

Wrong thread 

No, I like it here

[Steve Browning]

Just finished a short tour where we used my PA for a couple of gigs. I originally a pair of Alto 15 tops with a 12 sub, but decided to change the 15s for 12s (after reading advice on here). The system is now 2 x Alto TS312s and a TS312S sub. Monitoring is again all Alto, with 3 x 10s and the spare TS312. Mixer is an Alto Live 1604. Slight overkill for the regular band but the separate monitor mixes are useful.

 

I have to say we were astonished at the clarity of the system. Everything was handled easily. Was unable to position the sub according to the recommendations of our experts but wasn't disappointed with the result.

[Pirellithecat]

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

No, I like it here

OK ..........  Please suggest an alternative thread if this is in the wrong place 😅 
My son's office is closing down in 2 weeks time and they are basically getting rid of everything - kind of "fire sale" apparently.
They have an A&H Qu16, 2019, barely used, looking for a home.   They think they'll get maybe £400 for it, but If no-one wants it  ..... well who knows ..... ! 

Whilst it has much more than I need, eg 10 Aux outs, it doesn't have many of the Auto features and would need a separate wireless router for iPad use. The app looks OK, maybe not as simple-looking as the MixPad5, but OK. 

Anyone any experience of these and any thoughts as to whether it would be the "right" solution for the need for more/better EQ options with Gates and Compression that could come in handy (drummer/vocal mic/monitor issue). 
Key question.
at >£400, is this a good solution for a digital Novice moving from a 16 Channel Analogue mixer or should I bite the bullet and jump into a CQ 18T or Mackie  DL16? 

  

  

[zitherman]

Absolute steal at 400.great bit of kit

[Phil Starr]

If you don't want it then I'll have it

 

You wanted physical controls and this will give you that and be a great way to get used to all the upgrades without losing the 'feel' of a physical desk  and this is a crazy low price. You could use this for a year or so and then sell it at a profit, enough to buy a new CQ18 probably. To me if you wanted 😂 I'd take their arm off. The only downside is that I like a stagebox mixer and I couldn't really afford one of these new but this is just what you've been looking for.

[Pirellithecat]

So .... do you think I'll get along without the Auto set Up features like Feedback Suppression, Auto Gain, Auto EQ? 

[Chienmortbb]

10 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

So .... do you think I'll get along without the Auto set Up features like Feedback Suppression, Auto Gain, Auto EQ? 

Yes. They are all nice to have at a push but the Qu is a real step up. I bid £401. 

[Pirellithecat]

They are also disposing of an A&H Zed24 and a ZED 10!!

[Phil Starr]

I bid £402 (this could go on for a while )

 

I think you've been presented with an opportunity on a plate. You can buy this and use it to the benefit of your band for a few months and if you decide that the IPad works for you and you don't need physical contols go for something different later. You'll get more than your money back and you'll have had 6 months or whatever of learning how to use the eq/fx/compression/PEQ/GEQ/RTA/extra channels/recallable scenes and so on and seeing how useful each is to you.

 

Most of the digital mixers come with pre-sets but I don't use mine, it's quicker and more reliable to set everything up yourself and get what you want and of course you learn more by doing it yourself. The Auto set up features are different in being 'intelligent' and they are easy to override so may be great but that's kind of a personal thing. I prefer not to use AI for my internet searches or to trust lane control on my car, not yet anyway. I've used Feedback Suppression and for me it doesn't work, it takes away a lot of the eq you've carefully set up by audibly notching out frequencies and only gives you a few db of extra gain. Like everything digital it's getting better all the time but not there yet, or at least not a perfect cure. Basically I agree with John, these things are nice but not a reason not to buy the Qu

 

 

 

 

[Pirellithecat]

Plenty of time ............  

In anticipation of this not materializing, I just keep repeating ."The Excellent is the Enemy of The Good - The Excellent is the Enemy of The Good .......... The Excellent is the Enemy of The Good ................. The Excellent is the Enemy of The Good .............  
 

I'll keep you posted.

[Stub Mandrel]

We were told the space for a band was tiny in a small pub. And we are a 5 piece...

 

So, we gambled and just took a digital mixer, four mics and my two 'fun generation' powered 15s at just 150W rms each.

 

Sounded fine according to the punters, but the videos people made suggest the guitars and bass were too quiet for the vocals and unmiked drums... I had struggled to set my volume as a touch one way too loud, a touch the other - silence.

 

At least we know we can go really pa light if necessary.

 

 

Edited August 7 by Stub Mandrel

[jimmyb625]

£402.50 and that's with me already having a QU24 and QU-SB!

Seriously, for that money, it's a no-brainer.

[Phil Starr]

£405.50

[Pirellithecat]

Steady .......!

[jimmyb625]

On 09/08/2024 at 15:39, Phil Starr said:

£405.50

£405.51 and our back catalogue of cd's signed (or unsigned, as that will probably increase the value...)

[Chienmortbb]

On 28/07/2024 at 11:38, Woodinblack said:

Our singer isn't particularl clear -

Get him a Sontronics Solo...

[Chienmortbb]

The Rebbels PA is a crappy Behringer Powered mixer that is used just for vocals. Two power amps, one used for FoH  and one for Monitors. All speakers  passive. The venue was a new one for me although a previous iteration of the band had played there a decade or more ago. The stage was in  one corner, triangular in shape and tiny. There was nowhere at the front for the two monitors and  the triangular shape meant the monitors could only go across the stage from. Far from ideal I thought.

 

Wrong. Best on stage vocal monitoring sound we have had since  I joined. Strictly speaking the speakers were out of phase, as they were facing each other but I could hear the vocals clearly. Now I just have to tell a certain guitarist that he cannot sing.

 

 

[tauzero]

Emergency switch to putting the bass through the vocals-only PA last night (XR18 mixer, Alto TS408 FOH, Alto TS308 monitors). Something was amiss with the routing of all the channels except the three vocal channels and I couldn't get any sound out of them, so unplugged my mic and put the bass through that channel. Remarkably good sound as it happened. We do need to address speaker and mic positioning though, singer put his stuff well forward after I'd put the speakers out. I think I'm going to wait until everybody else has set up to position the speakers and do the wiring, I ended up with a tangled mess of mains cables under my little mixer table.

[JPJ]

5 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

The Rebbels PA is a crappy Behringer Powered mixer that is used just for vocals. Two power amps, one used for FoH  and one for Monitors. All speakers  passive. The venue was a new one for me although a previous iteration of the band had played there a decade or more ago. The stage was in  one corner, triangular in shape and tiny. There was nowhere at the front for the two monitors and  the triangular shape meant the monitors could only go across the stage from. Far from ideal I thought.

 

Wrong. Best on stage vocal monitoring sound we have had since  I joined. Strictly speaking the speakers were out of phase, as they were facing each other but I could hear the vocals clearly. Now I just have to tell a certain guitarist that he cannot sing.

 

 

At one time most rock bands had as much side fill as they had FOH, and a few years ago, I got to play the main stage at the Bulldog Bash where the PA had two big stacks of side fill and it was the best on stage sound spread I’ve ever had. You could literally wander anywhere on stage and still hear yourself clearly.

[Pirellithecat]

On 10/08/2024 at 16:29, jimmyb625 said:

£405.51 and our back catalogue of cd's signed (or unsigned, as that will probably increase the value...)

😭 Some ignorant fool snug in and offered them £800!   And they sold it .........  I tried offering them my 1200 CD's PLUS £405, but they just wouldn't see reason. 
Can't trust anyone these days ................ 

[jimmyb625]

2 hours ago, Pirellithecat said:

😭 Some ignorant fool snug in and offered them £800!   And they sold it .........  I tried offering them my 1200 CD's PLUS £405, but they just wouldn't see reason. 
Can't trust anyone these days ................ 

How unreasonable of them!