Allen & Heath CQ desks

[warwickhunt]

Thought I'd throw a couple of quick thoughts down re the new desk I got (CQ12T).

 

This thing is so small, light and easy to use out of the box that even old hands like me can manage... when you get used to navigation.  Nothing unusual in that but I do still find myself toggling through screens trying to remember where the send fader is for something or which screen is the one that allows adjustment all of all of a certain setting in one place.  

 

The various PEQs (parametric graph type) are handy and easy to use and I quickly found myself converting the quick/simple channel set ups to the advanced mode, which I didn't think I would but it is quite intuitive... when I can remember which bloody screen.  

 

The negative... there has to be one!  The one thing that I thought was initially clever was the auto-fader feature... but it isn't!  Essentially the desk sets the input gain for you, based upon the input applied by instrument or individual voice and once initially set it will tweak the gain down if the input starts to exceed that which was initially set (guitarist anyone); fine and dandy and this works 'in isolation'!  First full band rehearsal using the desk, I went through each of the 3 vocals, bass and acoustic guitar (no drums or electric guitar through the desk at this point), all set independently and sounding good (no peaking etc and the levels looked about where I'd expect them to be if I was using a fader meter).  Band kicks into the first song and 8 bars in we are all looking at each other wondering where the hell the vocals and bass just went?  Yep, the desk had turned us down and it will not reinstate levels if it pulls them back.  

 

I get that with everything playing the mics may well have received extra gain/input but we weren't pointing mics at the speakers or anything but I'm puzzled as to why it pulled back the bass in the desk!  The bass was effectively DI straight from a preamp pedal.  We tried this several times and each time it did the same thing, so I had to manually reset them and disable that feature.  No big deal but a pointless exercise/feature if it won't work on a basic level.

 

I'll report back with new thoughts as and when but has anyone else got one of these desks and wants to chip in?  

[Chienmortbb]

I have the CQ20 and I found that its best to set the gain via auto and then turn it off once set.

[warwickhunt]

4 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I have the CQ20 and I found that its best to set the gain via auto and then turn it off once set.

 

Yep, pretty much my conclusion.  It's then down to me to impress upon folk to be sure to play/sing at gig volumes... and not then increase, which kind of negates the USP of the desks auto feature.    

[Phil Starr]

On 10/07/2024 at 08:53, warwickhunt said:

I'm puzzled as to why it pulled back the bass in the desk! 

We all do it; play louder once we are mid song. At gigs with my bands I know who gets louder and who doesn't and guesstimate the levels. It would be hard for the mixer's software  to do that. I'm a serial offender myself

[warwickhunt]

11 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

We all do it; play louder once we are mid song. At gigs with my bands I know who gets louder and who doesn't and guesstimate the levels. It would be hard for the mixer's software  to do that. I'm a serial offender myself

 

I wish it could be attributed to that but as I'm the bloke lecturing everyone else, I made sure I lead by example and gave it beans when I set the level!  LOL

 

It was also the fact it was literally; intro + a few bars... vocals and bass GONE.

 

I'd used the desk with my duo and had assumed the dip in the vocalist level was due to inexperience of her hearing herself through the PA and backing off from the mic.  Apparently not and I need to apologise to her.

[warwickhunt]

The auto feedback feature caught me out the other day!  

 

New venue so I set the feedback destroyer to do it's thing, fine and dandy.  Started to play and 2 songs in the sound is awful (lacking any depth).  Did an on the fly tweak of EQ to boost Low mids but not great.  Got the singer to do a number with just guitar and vocal while I dived into the desk for a reset; went into a series of screens and noticed the auto feature was left engaged and it effectively was pulling all the EQ down/out.  Reset and left off for the remainder of the set.  

 

TBH it was operator error as I should have disengaged the feature after it did the initial setting (it does have a 'live' function which can be used).  Just leaving this here in case anyone has a similar issue and doesn't realise.  

[Chienmortbb]

12 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

The auto feedback feature caught me out the other day!  

 

New venue so I set the feedback destroyer to do it's thing, fine and dandy.  Started to play and 2 songs in the sound is awful (lacking any depth).  Did an on the fly tweak of EQ to boost Low mids but not great.  Got the singer to do a number with just guitar and vocal while I dived into the desk for a reset; went into a series of screens and noticed the auto feature was left engaged and it effectively was pulling all the EQ down/out.  Reset and left off for the remainder of the set.  

 

TBH it was operator error as I should have disengaged the feature after it did the initial setting (it does have a 'live' function which can be used).  Just leaving this here in case anyone has a similar issue and doesn't realise.  

Sorry I should have let you know that I got caught out by this. I also turn off the auto-gain feature once set.

[warwickhunt]

Phew not just me then!    

 

I have to confess that I also thought that 12 channels would easily cover a 4 person band but we are using every channel now as the drummer has requested a mic to do backing vox on 2 songs and the vocalist is adding acoustic guitar on 4 numbers... hmmmm should have maybe gone for the 16!  

 

[Chienmortbb]

12 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

Phew not just me then!    

 

I have to confess that I also thought that 12 channels would easily cover a 4 person band but we are using every channel now as the drummer has requested a mic to do backing vox on 2 songs and the vocalist is adding acoustic guitar on 4 numbers... hmmmm should have maybe gone for the 16!  

 

My CQ20 replaced a Soundcraft Ui16, I got that originally as we had an open air booking that paid a lot and 4 vocals, two guitars, bass and drums meant I needed the 12 mic/line inputs. We did one gig where the support band  was a six piece with sax and keys. I was looking at the Ui24 but there has been little support for that range since Samsung took over Harmon, Soundcraft's parent.

[warwickhunt]

56 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

My CQ20 replaced a Soundcraft Ui16, I got that originally as we had an open air booking that paid a lot and 4 vocals, two guitars, bass and drums meant I needed the 12 mic/line inputs. We did one gig where the support band  was a six piece with sax and keys. I was looking at the Ui24 but there has been little support for that range since Samsung took over Harmon, Soundcraft's parent.

 

I specifically wanted the 'all in one' functionality of the A&H CQ over the usual rack > interface type; considered buying the CQ18 over the CQ12 but the extra outlay for channels I might not need was the decider... possibly wrongly.    

 

[Phil Starr]

Following this with interest. I'm not looking to swap out my mixer yet but the CQ series and specifically the CQ20 is appealing. Interesting your experiences with the automations @Pirellithecat was asking about these on another thread. I think these automations are more there for hire fims miking up conferences than for bands. For any given band I'd expect to start every gig with the same settings each time and only really have to change the eq on the main outs to compensate for the room so it's no big deal not to use these once you've achieved a good set up.

 

One thing I have done which is appropriate for any digital mixer is that I've made multiple copies of my basic mixes as I've accidentally saved over past mixes or had 'helpful' band members saving things for me. It's also good to have the mix before last saved when an 'improvement' turns out not to be the solution I thought it was.

[warwickhunt]

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

Following this with interest. I'm not looking to swap out my mixer yet but the CQ series and specifically the CQ20 is appealing. Interesting your experiences with the automations @Pirellithecat was asking about these on another thread. I think these automations are more there for hire fims miking up conferences than for bands. For any given band I'd expect to start every gig with the same settings each time and only really have to change the eq on the main outs to compensate for the room so it's no big deal not to use these once you've achieved a good set up.

 

One thing I have done which is appropriate for any digital mixer is that I've made multiple copies of my basic mixes as I've accidentally saved over past mixes or had 'helpful' band members saving things for me. It's also good to have the mix before last saved when an 'improvement' turns out not to be the solution I thought it was.

 

I'm pretty much doing as you've outlined and I could easily set input levels etc. but the feedback suppression seemed a good idea... so long as you lock it after initial setting.  I've done mixes for my 2 bands in 3 locations (S/M/L venues) and using these as reference.  If I know I'm playing somewhere that I anticipate returning to I'll save that as another 'scene'.