warwickhunt Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Thought I'd throw a couple of quick thoughts down re the new desk I got (CQ12T). This thing is so small, light and easy to use out of the box that even old hands like me can manage... when you get used to navigation. Nothing unusual in that but I do still find myself toggling through screens trying to remember where the send fader is for something or which screen is the one that allows adjustment all of all of a certain setting in one place. The various PEQs (parametric graph type) are handy and easy to use and I quickly found myself converting the quick/simple channel set ups to the advanced mode, which I didn't think I would but it is quite intuitive... when I can remember which bloody screen. The negative... there has to be one! The one thing that I thought was initially clever was the auto-fader feature... but it isn't! Essentially the desk sets the input gain for you, based upon the input applied by instrument or individual voice and once initially set it will tweak the gain down if the input starts to exceed that which was initially set (guitarist anyone); fine and dandy and this works 'in isolation'! First full band rehearsal using the desk, I went through each of the 3 vocals, bass and acoustic guitar (no drums or electric guitar through the desk at this point), all set independently and sounding good (no peaking etc and the levels looked about where I'd expect them to be if I was using a fader meter). Band kicks into the first song and 8 bars in we are all looking at each other wondering where the hell the vocals and bass just went? Yep, the desk had turned us down and it will not reinstate levels if it pulls them back. I get that with everything playing the mics may well have received extra gain/input but we weren't pointing mics at the speakers or anything but I'm puzzled as to why it pulled back the bass in the desk! The bass was effectively DI straight from a preamp pedal. We tried this several times and each time it did the same thing, so I had to manually reset them and disable that feature. No big deal but a pointless exercise/feature if it won't work on a basic level. I'll report back with new thoughts as and when but has anyone else got one of these desks and wants to chip in? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 I have the CQ20 and I found that its best to set the gain via auto and then turn it off once set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 4 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said: I have the CQ20 and I found that its best to set the gain via auto and then turn it off once set. Yep, pretty much my conclusion. It's then down to me to impress upon folk to be sure to play/sing at gig volumes... and not then increase, which kind of negates the USP of the desks auto feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 On 10/07/2024 at 08:53, warwickhunt said: I'm puzzled as to why it pulled back the bass in the desk! We all do it; play louder once we are mid song. At gigs with my bands I know who gets louder and who doesn't and guesstimate the levels. It would be hard for the mixer's software to do that. I'm a serial offender myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 11 minutes ago, Phil Starr said: We all do it; play louder once we are mid song. At gigs with my bands I know who gets louder and who doesn't and guesstimate the levels. It would be hard for the mixer's software to do that. I'm a serial offender myself I wish it could be attributed to that but as I'm the bloke lecturing everyone else, I made sure I lead by example and gave it beans when I set the level! LOL It was also the fact it was literally; intro + a few bars... vocals and bass GONE. I'd used the desk with my duo and had assumed the dip in the vocalist level was due to inexperience of her hearing herself through the PA and backing off from the mic. Apparently not and I need to apologise to her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted August 7 Author Share Posted August 7 The auto feedback feature caught me out the other day! New venue so I set the feedback destroyer to do it's thing, fine and dandy. Started to play and 2 songs in the sound is awful (lacking any depth). Did an on the fly tweak of EQ to boost Low mids but not great. Got the singer to do a number with just guitar and vocal while I dived into the desk for a reset; went into a series of screens and noticed the auto feature was left engaged and it effectively was pulling all the EQ down/out. Reset and left off for the remainder of the set. TBH it was operator error as I should have disengaged the feature after it did the initial setting (it does have a 'live' function which can be used). Just leaving this here in case anyone has a similar issue and doesn't realise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 12 hours ago, warwickhunt said: The auto feedback feature caught me out the other day! New venue so I set the feedback destroyer to do it's thing, fine and dandy. Started to play and 2 songs in the sound is awful (lacking any depth). Did an on the fly tweak of EQ to boost Low mids but not great. Got the singer to do a number with just guitar and vocal while I dived into the desk for a reset; went into a series of screens and noticed the auto feature was left engaged and it effectively was pulling all the EQ down/out. Reset and left off for the remainder of the set. TBH it was operator error as I should have disengaged the feature after it did the initial setting (it does have a 'live' function which can be used). Just leaving this here in case anyone has a similar issue and doesn't realise. Sorry I should have let you know that I got caught out by this. I also turn off the auto-gain feature once set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted August 7 Author Share Posted August 7 Phew not just me then! I have to confess that I also thought that 12 channels would easily cover a 4 person band but we are using every channel now as the drummer has requested a mic to do backing vox on 2 songs and the vocalist is adding acoustic guitar on 4 numbers... hmmmm should have maybe gone for the 16! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 12 hours ago, warwickhunt said: Phew not just me then! I have to confess that I also thought that 12 channels would easily cover a 4 person band but we are using every channel now as the drummer has requested a mic to do backing vox on 2 songs and the vocalist is adding acoustic guitar on 4 numbers... hmmmm should have maybe gone for the 16! My CQ20 replaced a Soundcraft Ui16, I got that originally as we had an open air booking that paid a lot and 4 vocals, two guitars, bass and drums meant I needed the 12 mic/line inputs. We did one gig where the support band was a six piece with sax and keys. I was looking at the Ui24 but there has been little support for that range since Samsung took over Harmon, Soundcraft's parent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted August 8 Author Share Posted August 8 56 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said: My CQ20 replaced a Soundcraft Ui16, I got that originally as we had an open air booking that paid a lot and 4 vocals, two guitars, bass and drums meant I needed the 12 mic/line inputs. We did one gig where the support band was a six piece with sax and keys. I was looking at the Ui24 but there has been little support for that range since Samsung took over Harmon, Soundcraft's parent. I specifically wanted the 'all in one' functionality of the A&H CQ over the usual rack > interface type; considered buying the CQ18 over the CQ12 but the extra outlay for channels I might not need was the decider... possibly wrongly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 Following this with interest. I'm not looking to swap out my mixer yet but the CQ series and specifically the CQ20 is appealing. Interesting your experiences with the automations @Pirellithecat was asking about these on another thread. I think these automations are more there for hire fims miking up conferences than for bands. For any given band I'd expect to start every gig with the same settings each time and only really have to change the eq on the main outs to compensate for the room so it's no big deal not to use these once you've achieved a good set up. One thing I have done which is appropriate for any digital mixer is that I've made multiple copies of my basic mixes as I've accidentally saved over past mixes or had 'helpful' band members saving things for me. It's also good to have the mix before last saved when an 'improvement' turns out not to be the solution I thought it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted August 8 Author Share Posted August 8 1 hour ago, Phil Starr said: Following this with interest. I'm not looking to swap out my mixer yet but the CQ series and specifically the CQ20 is appealing. Interesting your experiences with the automations @Pirellithecat was asking about these on another thread. I think these automations are more there for hire fims miking up conferences than for bands. For any given band I'd expect to start every gig with the same settings each time and only really have to change the eq on the main outs to compensate for the room so it's no big deal not to use these once you've achieved a good set up. One thing I have done which is appropriate for any digital mixer is that I've made multiple copies of my basic mixes as I've accidentally saved over past mixes or had 'helpful' band members saving things for me. It's also good to have the mix before last saved when an 'improvement' turns out not to be the solution I thought it was. I'm pretty much doing as you've outlined and I could easily set input levels etc. but the feedback suppression seemed a good idea... so long as you lock it after initial setting. I've done mixes for my 2 bands in 3 locations (S/M/L venues) and using these as reference. If I know I'm playing somewhere that I anticipate returning to I'll save that as another 'scene'. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 I've just bought one of these, arriving in a week or so. I'm quite excited. Our regular PA bloke has just bought a Yamaha DM-3 so it'll be interesting to compare the two, allowing for the Yam costing twice as much as the A&H.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted September 22 Share Posted September 22 40 minutes ago, TheRev said: I've just bought one of these, arriving in a week or so. I'm quite excited. Our regular PA bloke has just bought a Yamaha DM-3 so it'll be interesting to compare the two, allowing for the Yam costing twice as much as the A&H.... I'd be VERY interested to hear the comparison!! I'm "involved" in a local music set up which hosts about 6gigs per year. "We" have recently moved to a DM3 which I'm getting to grips with. Sadly I can't borrow it to try with my band. I very much like the "Hybrid" nature of the DM3, its size and most of its function (that I'm familiar with so far🙄). It would be a great replacement for the mixer I use to gig most weekends (size/quality/functionality etc.) but it's probably too expensive. If the A&H range compared well I'd probably bite the bullet and go in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 I think someone elsewhere mentioned that multi-track recording was not possible on the CQ-12T, but it seems that's not a limitation ie possible to record multi-track both straight to a DAW and also to an SD card? Also really like the sound of: "CQ’s Feedback Assistant automatically detects and eliminates problem frequencies using up to 16 filters per output so you can mix with confidence – and forget about feedback." @warwickhunt - have you noticed any reduction in feedback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted October 6 Author Share Posted October 6 You can record multi-track though I've not done it yet. Feedback reduction/elimination is good... great, as we never get any. Just be sure to NOT leave it running in detection mode after the initial setting, though you can put it in 'live' mode but we've never found the need as it seems to do a good job on initial detection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 6 hours ago, warwickhunt said: You can record multi-track though I've not done it yet. Feedback reduction/elimination is good... great, as we never get any. Just be sure to NOT leave it running in detection mode after the initial setting, though you can put it in 'live' mode but we've never found the need as it seems to do a good job on initial detection. I agree the auto gain and feedback are great but use them to get you set up, but don't leave them live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 On 22/09/2024 at 10:44, TheRev said: I've just bought one of these, arriving in a week or so. I'm quite excited. Our regular PA bloke has just bought a Yamaha DM-3 so it'll be interesting to compare the two, allowing for the Yam costing twice as much as the A&H.... How'd it go? Be really interested to hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted October 17 Share Posted October 17 (edited) On 13/10/2024 at 13:21, Pirellithecat said: How'd it go? Be really interested to hear Annoyingly, I've been so busy with work that I haven't had a chance to use it in anger yet. I'd hoped to compare both side by side at a little festy last weekend, but Phil brought his M32 instead of the Yamaha. From the few minutes twiddling time I got in the Yamaha last month, it's obviously a much more comprehensive mixer than the QC12, and if you absoutely have to have proper faders, then it's no contest. The display on the Yamaha is bigger, so you can have a lot more information available 'at a glance' than you can with the CQ12, but I've found the CQ12 interface very easy and logical to navigate, and pretty much all of the information you're likely to need while mixing on the hoof is only 1 button press away. One thing the A&H does that the Yamaha doesn't, is the ability to multitrack record direct to a 32GB memory card. The Yamaha can record stereo to a USB stick or multitrack via USB to HOST, so it's just a bit more faff involved in using the desk for recording. Edited October 17 by TheRev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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