IR for EUB 3Sigma in a live setting

[JPJ]

Question to the more technologically minded. Is anyone using IR’s of double bass with an EUB (specifically NS NXT in my case)? If so, how do you find them and what hardware are you using? 

[Marti T]

Hi

I got an NXT a few months ago, my first double and love it but will be a while before I gig with it!

 

I use the sigma double bass IR in the HX stomp and would recommend - you can load it into any IR loader.

12 IRs to choose from - I went for the "Mod Bass" and may get one of the others too

They will instantly get you in the ball park

 

I also then bought the pack of presents for the stomp which are  excellent if a bit fiddly to install and then tweak - studio upright https://www.3sigmaaudio.com/items/category/helix-bass/

The presents are just a starting point and endlessly tweak able but they sound great through headphones and amp - instantly makes it sound more like an acoustic upright to my ears

I'd also recommend trying a mute (nino mute) which will deaden the sustain and give more of an acoustic sound

 

[JPJ]

3 hours ago, Marti T said:

Hi

I got an NXT a few months ago, my first double and love it but will be a while before I gig with it!

 

I use the sigma double bass IR in the HX stomp and would recommend - you can load it into any IR loader.

12 IRs to choose from - I went for the "Mod Bass" and may get one of the others too

They will instantly get you in the ball park

 

I also then bought the pack of presents for the stomp which are  excellent if a bit fiddly to install and then tweak - studio upright https://www.3sigmaaudio.com/items/category/helix-bass/

The presents are just a starting point and endlessly tweak able but they sound great through headphones and amp - instantly makes it sound more like an acoustic upright to my ears

I'd also recommend trying a mute (nino mute) which will deaden the sustain and give more of an acoustic sound

 

Thanks Marti,

 

Thats what I wanted to know. I already use the Nino mute, and I’ve also changed mine from contemporary to traditional strings but whilst I can get a really convincing db tone from the D & G strings, I’m still struggling to get the same from the E & A strings. 

[tinyd]

I posted this video a while back in another thread. The sound he achieves at the end of the video is pretty good IMO
 

 

[JPJ]

Thanks for sharing this, he does indeed get a good sound out of the Ibanez - I’m going to experiment with IR’s for the NS NXT and report back. 

[tinyd]

I tried one of the 3Sigma ones with my DB but it didn't make enough difference to the amplified sound to be worth bothering with. But since a DB amplified already sounds quite a lot like a DB (😀) it's not surprising. But I'd expect much more impact with an EUB alright. 

[JPJ]

So I picked up a little Sonicake IR loader from Berserker on here, and I’ve purchased the German bass and Czech bass packs from 3Sigma.

 

Firstly, if you think the 3Sigma packs are pricey for a single IR, you actually get a whole lot more. The IR’s come in multiple sample rates to match your system/device and multiple IR’s in each sample rate each, one of which is specifically designed for NS basses, and then each IR having multiple microphone options. Tonight I loaded up a few of the German bass IR/mic combinations, and plugged the IR loader into my pedalboard in front of my EBS Stanley Clarke. 

 

First impressions are that the IR definitely adds something, but not something discernible enough to constitute a wow lightbulb moment. I’ll have more time to play about and try some of the other non-NS specific IR’s at the weekend, but at the moment I can’t see the Sonicake becoming a permanent feature on my live board. 

[JPJ]

Update - I did some internet research around the topic last night and it seems one of my issues is that the Sonicake can only really handle IR's of 27ms whereas the 3Sigma ones are all 200ms. So today I purchased the 3Sigma impulse loader, and during my lunch break did a quick test into GarageBand. Much better and the IR really does add some air to the NS (using the German bass, NS pickup, microphone 2, IR). More experimentation to follow when time permits but promising enough to warrant sticking with this. If it's successful I guess my next purchase will be the TC Electronic Impulse IR loader pedal that is in the same form factor as the Sonicake so will (just about) fit on my board with the benefit that it can handle IR's of 200ms. 

[JPJ]

Ok, so much more faffing about with this over the weekend. Bottom line is the IR’s definitely make the NS sound ‘more’ double bass like to me but this is a subjective judgement. The double bass sound I have in my head is the country/blue grass style sound. I can get pretty close using the NS, the NinoMute, and the EBS Stanley Clarke - close enough to have been complimented on my sound (but strangely not my playing 😂) but the 3Sigma IR’s add the missing dimension which I’d describe as ‘resonance’. It’s not reverb per se, I’ve tried that and for me it just doesn’t work live.

That said, using the 3Sigma impulse VST (Impulsive) in GarageBand results in quite a significant drop in signal level. Even with the input and output controls maxed (at which point you start to hear ‘noise’) the signal is significantly below that of the input when not running the VST.

So here’s the rub, will the 3Sigma IR add enough live to justify purchasing the TC IR loader? Will the level drop be as noticeable with the TC and if so, can I make this up in the TC? As I am such a gear slut can I avoid buying the TC just to find out? Stand-by for further updates…….

[Marti T]

 

The TC Impulse loader has a volume control you can adjust and the sample rate is twice as large as on the HX you must get it 

😁

I don't think there is a level drop from the IR necessarily - in the HXstomp you can adjust the volume and I left it at zero whilst checking gain stage - more likely something to do with GarageBand settings or something. 

[JPJ]

17 hours ago, Marti T said:

 

The TC Impulse loader has a volume control you can adjust and the sample rate is twice as large as on the HX you must get it 

😁

 

Oh ok, if you insist, ordered and on its way 😎

[JPJ]

The TC impulse arrived yesterday, but I only got a chance to play with it today. Using the TC app, it was very easy to upload the 3Sigma impulses and I’ve got all ten Czech & German bass IR’s for NS EUB at 96Khz with loads of room to spare. Initial testing at home suggested I preferred microphone 1 and 6 on both basses (Joe Quick Modern 1, and Neumann U47 respectively). Again, the volume drop was evident, but running the TC with the volume at maximum levels up the IR/non-IR signal perfectly without any added noise. At rehearsal tonight for an acoustic gig on Saturday where I will be playing the NS NXT for the whole gig (I know its not technically acoustic but even the acoustics will be going through the PA) the sound was definitely more acoustic sounding. The German bass IR’s were very warm and resonant, but I had to adjust my eq as they are also quite ‘dark’ out of the box. A quick EQ tweak and problem solved. 

If anyone is interested, once I get this gig out of the way I’ll record a few comparisons and stick them up on here. 

[JPJ]

So, the gig went well, and with the German bass mic 6 in use, I got a sound that suited the country/blue grass feel of our female fronted acoustic trio. Whereas before I could dial in a pretty convincing double bass tone out of the D & G strings, the E & A just lacked ‘something’. With the IR loaded, that something is definitely there. Call it body, reverb, or my preferred description ‘resonance’ it’s definitely there.
So, I think I’ve answered my own question, IR’s do work live.