Why not buy from Amazon??

[JohnH89]

I loathe and depise amazon . Working practices , anti union stance etc etc . Never have and never will buy anything from them . BUT . It is sharp business practice as people are lazy and money/value oriented . My major gripe is that customers expect every business to be the same 24/7 , feedback etc and answering emails at all hours of the day . My business consists now of 2 people . I am not going to answer emails at 0330 on a sunday . We are doing fine by the way 😁

[Crusoe]

I don’t buy a lot of stuff off Amazon. I do have Amazon Prime, so get the tv and films and my wife orders cat good and cat litter in bulk and she and my daughter would buy stuff from them. I do feel a little swell of hope every time I see something about an Amazon depot voting to unionize.

[meterman]

Years ago I tried buying a book from Amazon because it couldn’t get it anywhere else. But they delivered a different book to what I’d ordered. Wasn’t impressed but I know all companies can make mistakes, it just happens. Sorting out the return was a pain in the ärśè as well.

 

Tried buying an extension ladder from them and received a socket set instead. Again the return and refund process was a right old faff on. That was 12 years ago and I haven’t bothered with Amazon since. 
 

I’m sure they’re great for some folks but I wasn’t lucky enough with them to  want to give them another go. Politics aside, they’ve been 100% rubbish with me, so I never use them.

[tegs07]

7 hours ago, GuyR said:

Our govt ought to have the will to protect our own tax paying businesses by charging Amazon and similar non tax contributors a percentage on UK turnove

This is the fundamental problem. The UK tax system needs to treat multinationals companies as a single entity and tax accordingly. This way they would not be able to create complex group structures that are a smoke screen for paying tax. The same thing applies to zero hours contracts. Simply ban the practice on UK soil. 

The gripes against Amazon are valid but Facebook, Starbucks, Apple and a vast number of other multinational companies do exactly the same thing and only get away with it because the tax system and labour laws let them get away with it.

Edited July 15 by tegs07

[prowla]

21 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

This is the fundamental problem. The UK tax system needs to treat multinationals companies as a single entity and tax accordingly. This way they would not be able to create complex group structures that are a smoke screen for paying tax. The same thing applies to zero hours contracts. Simply ban the practice on UK soil. 

The gripes against Amazon are valid but Facebook, Starbucks, Apple and a vast number of other multinational companies do exactly the same thing and only get away with it because the tax system and labour laws let them get away with it.

Hopefully the new government will look at that; they're happy to chase individuals but need to sort out the corporates.

[Supernaut]

11 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

 

Just wondering if anyone who has objections to buying from Amazon has done anything about it? 

Maybe advocated for policy changes, by contacting local representatives and expressing concerns about corporate tax avoidance and worker treatment?

Or supported campaigns and petitions, and maybe donated to or volunteer with organizations like Tax Justice UK or Fair Tax Foundation that work to promote fair taxation and corporate accountability?

Getting off your backside and doing something about it? Nah, that's way too much hard work. 

[tegs07]

I’m not sure if there is an over romanticised view of the high street going on here. The tat i buy on Amazon I used to buy in Halfords, WH Smith’s, Wico’s, Curry’s, HMV etc

All chain stores featuring bored and indifferent teenagers (often students) on minimum wage. These chains all crucified the independents to start with. They largely sell tat made in the far east with fairly lax labour laws anyway.

 

Even the quality independents I try and support ( Taunton Leisure, Richer Sounds, A boot store in Bristol, Nailsea electrics) and some others rarely have anything made in the west anymore. Rab, Dickies, Blunstone, Bose, Cambridge Audio etc etc

 

Times change. Inflation and climate change may reverse this trend but I don’t hold out much hope.

Edited July 15 by tegs07

[Supernaut]

If anything, Amazon is a western version of Aliexpress which usually has the same products but much cheaper. 

[T-Bay]

12 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

 

Just wondering if anyone who has objections to buying from Amazon has done anything about it? 

Maybe advocated for policy changes, by contacting local representatives and expressing concerns about corporate tax avoidance and worker treatment?

Or supported campaigns and petitions, and maybe donated to or volunteer with organizations like Tax Justice UK or Fair Tax Foundation that work to promote fair taxation and corporate accountability?

I have done a few things including supporting a workers demo at a local depot, I have also petitioned my workplace and got them to take Amazon off the approved supplier list and then contacted Amazon to let them know that has happened. At a yearly spend of around £80,000 it was never going to make them cry but if enough people do the same it could have an effect. I also attempted to get my local MP involved in their tax avoidance but as he was more interested in groping interns it didn’t get very far. There are also local groups around the country trying to get local authorities to move away from using Amazon and I been involved in one of those.

 

It seems small things but they can make a difference, there is a long history of companies making ‘ethical’ changes that were based on consumer pressures. I guess the difference is that the world has never seen anything as big as Amazon and so far they are happy to do a big FU or make tiny gestures.

 

For me it started when they conned a charity I volunteered at out of £2k when dodgy goods were supplied through the marketplace. When you have seen disabled kids washing cars to raise a few quid and then see it stolen it gives you a reason to get involved. From that I found out how dodgy they were across all their business dealings. Thankfully a brilliant UK company StanelCo heard about what happened and helped the charity out.

[TimR]

The things I buy 'from' Amazon, seem mainly to be 'through' Amazon. ie The goods come from a shop somewhere. That may well be someone's garage, but Amazon aren't buying from the manufacturer.

 

As far as shops are concerned many are actually using Amazon or their own websites for sales and my local shop seems to have a lot of guys behind the desk continually on computers, I assume they're fulfilling online orders or on GuitarChat* all day.

 

The shops need to up their game though which is a circular problem - skilled knowledgeable sales people need to be paid well, which means they have to make expensive sales. 

 

* Definitely not BassChat as they only have 10 basses in the shop. 

Edited July 15 by TimR

[lemmywinks]

18 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

I’m not sure if there is an over romanticised view of the high street going on here. The tat i buy on Amazon I used to buy in Halfords, WH Smith’s, Wico’s, Curry’s, HMV etc

All chain stores featuring bored and indifferent teenagers (often students) on minimum wage. These chains all crucified the independents to start with. They largely sell tat made in the far east with fairly lax labour laws anyway.

 

Even the quality independents I try and support ( Taunton Leisure, Richer Sounds, A boot store in Bristol, Nailsea electrics) and some others rarely have anything made in the west anymore. Rab, Dickies, Blunstone, Bose, Cambridge Audio etc etc

 

Times change. Inflation and climate change may reverse this trend but I don’t hold out much hope.

 

We see the same with basses and guitars where brands can effectively kill off small stores by demanding high levels of stock purchase they can't possibly shift. Many years ago I tried to buy a Squier Jazz and went out of my way to accomodate my local music shop, really nice guy who I always gave my business to. He couldn't get them in and the only equivalent he could get was Vintage or Crafter from his JHS account.

 

 

[PaulWarning]

whatever we think Amazon have got it nailed, I've got several friends who swear by amazon Prime's very efficient next day delivery, their bad treatment of staff, like Wetherspoons, is overplayed, by the 'they must be Bastards because they make so much money' brigade.

As far as the tax evasion is concerned that's the Governments fault, no company pays more tax than they've got too

[TimR]

Amazon workers Balloted for GMB Trade union membership. I don't know what the outcome was.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd11j9p9g0po

[T-Bay]

53 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

whatever we think Amazon have got it nailed, I've got several friends who swear by amazon Prime's very efficient next day delivery, their bad treatment of staff, like Wetherspoons, is overplayed, by the 'they must be Bastards because they make so much money' brigade.

As far as the tax evasion is concerned that's the Governments fault, no company pays more tax than they've got too

Overplayed? Hmm, there is a awful lot of evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/04/amazon-chews-through-the-average-worker-in-eight-months-they-need-a-union

 

Just one example, not sure how any company that admits workers wear nappies as they are not allowed toilet breaks could claim that being a bad employer is ‘overplayed’. What I do think happens is that people who don’t care about others dismiss the problems so they can continue to buy from them without affecting their belief they are a ‘good person’.

[Wolfram]

As a small business who used to sell on Amazon, I could say much about my experience. Except I can't, because Amazon makes every seller sign an NDA.

[Dad3353]

18 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

... Just one example, not sure how any company that admits workers wear nappies as they are not allowed toilet breaks could claim that being a bad employer is ‘overplayed’. ...

 

That particular  example cited in the article above was not among the Amazon practices, but of a poultry processing firm. Not to say that Amazon are good to work for (that turnover rate is from the US, not the UK...), but folk that take up their salaries are free to quit, if the job does not suit them. I find it somewhat disingenuous to extrapolate from there what defines anyone as a 'good person'; their own conscience does that for them, and is their own concern. 

[T-Bay]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

 

That particular  example cited in the article above was not among the Amazon practices, but of a poultry processing firm. Not to say that Amazon are good to work for (that turnover rate is from the US, not the UK...), but folk that take up their salaries are free to quit, if the job does not suit them. I find it somewhat disingenuous to extrapolate from there what defines anyone as a 'good person'; their own conscience does that for them, and is their own concern. 

That article was from a well known outlet which is why I selected it, but the practice mentioned occurs at Amazon, and sadly other large warehousing places as well. Lots of well documented cases and hundreds of links e.g. https://www.quora.com/Do-Amazon-warehouse-employees-really-have-to-pee-in-bottles

 

But it’s not just limited to that, it’s the dehumanising effects of many of their working practices that have no place in the 21st century. Most people are aware that they ‘aren’t good’ but choose to ignore that as they wish to keep getting stuff cheap. Morals and principles don’t always come cheap.

[NancyJohnson]

4 hours ago, TimR said:

That may well be someone's garage, but Amazon aren't buying from the manufacturer.

 

 

 

I worked for a huge global business and I can assure you that Amazon are buying from manufacturers; sure there's probably are traders operating out of their back bedroom, but for us (and many other businesses) it was a no-brainer considering the crap that we had to deal with in the name of customer service dealing with High Street chains and family run shops.  It was a pretty good deal for us; they ordered, we supplied product by the pallet-load, they paid on time and handled everything from a logistical perspective. 

[lemmywinks]

18 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

That article was from a well known outlet which is why I selected it, but the practice mentioned occurs at Amazon, and sadly other large warehousing places as well. Lots of well documented cases and hundreds of links e.g. https://www.quora.com/Do-Amazon-warehouse-employees-really-have-to-pee-in-bottles

 

But it’s not just limited to that, it’s the dehumanising effects of many of their working practices that have no place in the 21st century. Most people are aware that they ‘aren’t good’ but choose to ignore that as they wish to keep getting stuff cheap. Morals and principles don’t always come cheap.

 

I mentioned previously that the lad I know took an empty bottle to pee in after his first day. Not mad keen on the idea of parcels being handled right after some guy has precariously peed in a bottle with no real hand washing facilities tbh.

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, Wolfram said:

As a small business who used to sell on Amazon, I could say much about my experience. Except I can't, because Amazon makes every seller sign an NDA.

 

Mrs Zero used to work in customer service for Roman Originals, a ladies' clothing retail emporium, which sold some clothing through Amazon. She hated Amazon because if customers returned clothing seriously the worse for wear, Amazon would refund them regardless. However, it was de rigeur to have a presence on Amazon.

[TimR]

13 hours ago, tegs07 said:

This is the fundamental problem. The UK tax system needs to treat multinationals companies as a single entity and tax accordingly. This way they would not be able to create complex group structures that are a smoke screen for paying tax. The same thing applies to zero hours contracts. Simply ban the practice on UK soil. 

The gripes against Amazon are valid but Facebook, Starbucks, Apple and a vast number of other multinational companies do exactly the same thing and only get away with it because the tax system and labour laws let them get away with it.

 

It's not the laws, it's the lack of HMRC manpower to dig through accounts. 

 

Maybe with the introduction of AI a lot of these companies will come unstuck. 

 

Although maybe a lot of us will as well. My friend already had enquires from the bank when his daughter started paying housekeeping and put 'Rent' as the label on her electronic payment, it flagged as a regular payment somewhere. Careful how you distribute gig money. 

Edited July 15 by TimR

[nekomatic]

On 14/07/2024 at 19:53, LowB_FTW said:

For the people boycotting Amazon for purchases, I understand your stance, but it doesn't really matter where you direct your online business to, because Amazon Web Services (AWS) makes up so much of the internet backbone these days

This is true, but when AWS serves a request I assume the bytes are not being picked by underpaid warehouse staff and delivered by drivers on zero-hours contracts. 

[prowla]

1 hour ago, nekomatic said:

This is true, but when AWS serves a request I assume the bytes are not being picked by underpaid warehouse staff and delivered by drivers on zero-hours contracts. 

AWS came about when Amazon decided to sell the spare capacity from their warehouse systems.