Beware of this Stingray

[kevbass]

Ive seen this vintage stingray on ebay about 6 times now, all under a seller with 0 feedback, all with the exact same auction layout and description, many of you may recognise it

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mint-Vintage-Fender-era-1976-Musicman-Stingray-bass_W0QQitemZ110163843425QQihZ001QQcategoryZ33039QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mint-Vintage-Fender-...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='kevbass' post='51845' date='Aug 28 2007, 05:19 PM']Ive seen this vintage stingray on ebay about 6 times now, all under a seller with 0 feedback, all with the exact same auction layout and description, many of you may recognise it

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mint-Vintage-Fender-era-1976-Musicman-Stingray-bass_W0QQitemZ110163843425QQihZ001QQcategoryZ33039QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mint-Vintage-Fender-...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url][/quote]

Yep. That one has done the rounds a few times, stay well clear!

[The Burpster]

That looks more dodgy than a fair full of dodgems!

[Hamster]

I reported this to ebay yesterday as a scam auction. I even gave them the item numbers of scam auctions where this picture had been used in the past - and they still haven't pulled the auction.

Hamster

[neepheid]

[quote name='Hamster' post='52171' date='Aug 29 2007, 09:44 AM']I reported this to ebay yesterday as a scam auction. I even gave them the item numbers of scam auctions where this picture had been used in the past - and they still haven't pulled the auction.

Hamster[/quote]

I'm not surprised - they didn't do anything about the Takamine acoustic scam I posted about a couple of weeks ago. They had the whole day.

[warwickhunt]

That's because if eBay pull the listing they have to refund and lose money... the barstewards would rather let it run and take their % of the sale fees and probably PayPal fees as well!

Sorry that's just my sad jaded way of viewing the way that eBay deals with glaringly obvious scams. If they made their signing up process a bit more rigorous they wouldn't have so many problems but then again that might put one or two people off from signing up to eBay AND THEY'D LOSE MONEY... the barstewards!

[cetera]

Agreed, they pulled an auction of mine on Day 6 (of 7!) because I mentioned in my auction (honestly) that I also had the item advertised elsewhere.

Seems they'd rather penalise honest eBayers than go after scammers and rip-off merchants

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='cetera' post='52202' date='Aug 29 2007, 10:24 AM']Agreed, they pulled an auction of mine on Day 6 (of 7!) because I mentioned in my auction (honestly) that I also had the item advertised elsewhere.

Seems they'd rather penalise honest eBayers than go after scammers and rip-off merchants [/quote]

They'll pull auctions like yours because they're afraid you might end the listing early and sell off eBay and they wouldn't get their cut plus they know that you'll list again and NOT mention that it's available elsewhere!

[The Burpster]

To actively go after the 'bad guys' would be to admit they have a problem and would require investigators that would require paying proprotionally for thier ability......

I'm not sure ebay believe that's cost effective... how on earth they expect it police itself when history has proven that there are a proportion of basically dishonest people amongst us I've no idea.

[JimD]

[quote name='kevbass' post='51845' date='Aug 28 2007, 05:19 PM']Ive seen this vintage stingray on ebay about 6 times now, all under a seller with 0 feedback, all with the exact same auction layout and description, many of you may recognise it

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mint-Vintage-Fender-era-1976-Musicman-Stingray-bass_W0QQitemZ110163843425QQihZ001QQcategoryZ33039QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mint-Vintage-Fender-...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url][/quote]

Thanks for posting this info. Call me naïve but apart from the 0 feedback rating there's nothing shouting out to me on that ad that would give me any cause for alarm; I'm glad I'm not after a vintage Stingray at the moment!

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='JimD' post='52332' date='Aug 29 2007, 02:23 PM']Thanks for posting this info. Call me naïve but apart from the 0 feedback rating there's nothing shouting out to me on that ad that would give me any cause for alarm; I'm glad I'm not after a vintage Stingray at the moment![/quote]

You're right, unless you've actually actively searched for or chanced upon that bass before you'd be none the wiser but that image has genuinely been used in a variety of scams around the world over the last 6 months. Makes you wonder why the daft plonkers keep using the same image! There's loads of images out there that they could lift and 99.999999% of people would be none the wiser.

[paul, the]

Ebay is dangerous enough as it is. A seller would have to have some seriously good feedback before I'd consider placing a bid. And I'm talking 150 transactions+ 99%+. Otherwise I would have to live within 50 miles of the seller, have all his contact details and would have gone and inspected the instrument.

If it didn't fit this criteria, I wait until one comes up nearer to my location. If it's an exceptionally rare bass and I'm not willing to travel, tough cookies for me.

If I didn't have impressive feedback, I wouldn't sell an expensive item.

[Beedster]

[quote name='JimD' post='52332' date='Aug 29 2007, 02:23 PM']Thanks for posting this info. Call me naïve but apart from the 0 feedback rating there's nothing shouting out to me on that ad that would give me any cause for alarm; I'm glad I'm not after a vintage Stingray at the moment![/quote]

Jim mate, yes, you're naive. Zero feedback!!!!!!!!! If that doesn't give you 'any cause for alarm' with a bass of that value then I'm not surprised that scamming is so profitable!
In a Darwinian world, if people weren't so bloody gullible scammers would soon become extinct
Chris

[bassbloke]

[quote name='Beedster' post='52417' date='Aug 29 2007, 04:40 PM']Jim mate, yes, you're naive. Zero feedback!!!!!!!!! If that doesn't give you 'any cause for alarm' with a bass of that value then I'm not surprised that scamming is so profitable!
In a Darwinian world, if people weren't so bloody gullible scammers would soon become extinct
Chris[/quote]

A bit harsh, but these are the signs that all is not right

Seller's name - gord56w8 only just joined. Bit of an odd name, possibly even randomnly generated
post to - worldwide. Most people, especially with guitars,specify UK only,Europe only, worldwide is rare, especially from a new starter
item location - UK, united Kingdom - not v.specific
postage details - £20 seller's standard rate. Most sellers specify the actual method of shipping, which would be more for a guitar like that anyway and would def offer collection.

and, finally, Private listing. Very fishy.

[stewblack]

[quote name='Beedster' post='52417' date='Aug 29 2007, 04:40 PM']Jim mate, yes, you're naive. Zero feedback!!!!!!!!! If that doesn't give you 'any cause for alarm' with a bass of that value then I'm not surprised that scamming is so profitable!
In a Darwinian world, if people weren't so bloody gullible scammers would soon become extinct
Chris[/quote]
In fairness Jim did clearly state 'apart' from 0 feedback.
Before I was a regular here and on e-bay I too would have known nothing of such
scams. Luckily posters here were kind enough to share their knowledge and give out handy tips like always ask for more photographs and if you can try out the bass. It's the way this place works -Share the wealth of knowledge rather than slag off newbie posters .

[Beedster]

[quote name='stewblack' post='52616' date='Aug 30 2007, 08:27 AM']In fairness Jim did clearly state 'apart' from 0 feedback.
Before I was a regular here and on e-bay I too would have known nothing of such
scams. Luckily posters here were kind enough to share their knowledge and give out handy tips like always ask for more photographs and if you can try out the bass. It's the way this place works -Share the wealth of knowledge rather than slag off newbie posters .[/quote]

I wasn't 'slagging' anyone off Stewblack, read Jim's post then mine, the words that is, not what you assume I'm saying. Jim's own statement was that he is naive, I simply agreed. Even if that bass were kosher, would anyone but a naive person send the seller £800 unsecured for it? No, of course not. The reason people do however is because we are duped into thinking that if it's on ebay, or the internet generally, it's OK. I'll say it again - the reason so many scammers are out there is because other people are so naive, and so desperate to get their hands on this great bass at such a great price that they suspend common sense. If people didn't keep paying for non-existent basses by bank transfer or Western Union (both of which ebay after all explicitly warn against because they are in themselves almost 100% guarantee that the listing is a scam), scammers would go off and scam somewhere else. But people do, which is why they're still with us. Again, to stretch the Darwinian metaphor, every predator needs prey to survive.
Chris

[Rich]

Slightly (all right, completely) off topic, but my first thought when I saw the title of this thread was "someone should have told that to Steve Irwin"...

FWIW I wouldn't touch that eBay item with a bargepole's big brother. It screams "DODGY" to me.

[Kev]

he does accept paypal though, which isnt normally the scammers way...

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='BassManKev' post='52674' date='Aug 30 2007, 10:48 AM']he does accept paypal though, which isnt normally the scammers way...[/quote]

Not usual but a mild hindrance to the scummer, it just means the scammer will only be able to clear off with the first £500 of the buyers cash as that is all that PayPal will allow a new account to empty from their PayPal account without further authorisation, which they obviously won't do!

[Beedster]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='52681' date='Aug 30 2007, 11:01 AM']Not usual but a mild hindrance to the scummer, it just means the scammer will only be able to clear off with the first £500 of the buyers cash as that is all that PayPal will allow a new account to empty from their PayPal account without further authorisation, which they obviously won't do![/quote]

He can pay £500 into his bank account, spend the other £300 on something else on ebay or elsewhere and by the time the bass buyer catches on he's long gone
However, scammers usually use the "I tell you what, if you want to do it a bit cheaper pay it directly into my account and I'll deduct the ebay and Paypal fees" number. The Paypal link is merely there to reassure potential buyers.
C

[stewblack]

[quote name='Beedster' post='52623' date='Aug 30 2007, 08:49 AM']I wasn't 'slagging' anyone off Stewblack, read Jim's post then mine, the words that is, not what you assume I'm saying. Jim's own statement was that he is naive, I simply agreed. Even if that bass were kosher, would anyone but a naive person send the seller £800 unsecured for it? No, of course not. The reason people do however is because we are duped into thinking that if it's on ebay, or the internet generally, it's OK. I'll say it again - the reason so many scammers are out there is because other people are so naive, and so desperate to get their hands on this great bass at such a great price that they suspend common sense. If people didn't keep paying for non-existent basses by bank transfer or Western Union (both of which ebay after all explicitly warn against because they are in themselves almost 100% guarantee that the listing is a scam), scammers would go off and scam somewhere else. But people do, which is why they're still with us. Again, to stretch the Darwinian metaphor, every predator needs prey to survive.
Chris[/quote]

I did read your words and drew the entirely appropriate inferences from them. Anyway don't want to fall out with you just felt you were a bit harsh, in turn I apologise if my response offended you.

[Beedster]

[quote name='stewblack' post='52782' date='Aug 30 2007, 01:45 PM']I did read your words and drew the entirely appropriate inferences from them. Anyway don't want to fall out with you just felt you were a bit harsh, in turn I apologise if my response offended you.[/quote]

Infer what you want Stew, but I didn't 'slag' him off. There's nothing wrong with a bit of well placed harshness however. If you read the often published stories of some of the idiots who've been ripped off on ebay - usually in the Sunday supplements - you'd might think "someone should have been a bit harsh with them before they hit the 'send payment button..." . In fact, sometimes I almost almost find myself sympathising with the scammers because the scammed are often foolish beyond imagination.
Your apology is of course accepted
Chris

[stewblack]

[quote name='Beedster' post='52792' date='Aug 30 2007, 02:01 PM']If you read the often published stories of some of the idiots who've been ripped off on ebay - usually in the Sunday supplements - you'd might think "someone should have been a bit harsh with them before they hit the 'send payment button..." . In fact, sometimes I almost almost find myself sympathising with the scammers because the scammed are often foolish beyond imagination.
D
Chris[/quote]
The debate over how much responsibility the victim should shoulder in any crime is a long and complex one, and I'm sure as hell not going to enter into it here (or anywhere else for that matter).
[quote]Your apology is of course accepted[/quote]
Good oh!

[Beedster]

[quote name='stewblack' post='52911' date='Aug 30 2007, 05:50 PM']The debate over how much responsibility the victim should shoulder in any crime is a long and complex one, and I'm sure as hell not going to enter into it here (or anywhere else for that matter).[/quote]

Fair enough, it's certainly complex, but it doesn't change the fact that if people really thought things through, especially in relation to internet fraud/scams, there'd be a whole less crime out there. I got my new racing bike nicked when I was a kid and the policeman who called at the house simply said "bloody stupid place to leave it, what did you expect". I think that to be honest, he had a point

[paul, the]

I'm one for harshness. If someone was sat next to me and said they wanted to place a bid I would give them a sharp slap to the side of the face. If you haven't got the common sense or Ebay experience, I would just advise to stay well away from anything potentially 'boutique' or 'vintage'.