Most accurate tuner?

[Greene-Mann]

[quote name='Hamster' post='495688' date='May 23 2009, 12:27 AM']Interesting. At an accuracy within 2/100th of a cent, it's 150+ times more accurate than led/needle tuners - and more than 5 times more accurate than a Peterson?[/quote]


This thread was actually answered at the top of the 2nd page
The rest has been just bigging up Petersons; even though the SR Turbo Tuner is better!

(although EBS freak has got a good point on the GB Gspot)

Edited May 24, 2009 by Greene-Mann

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='Greene-Mann' post='496698' date='May 24 2009, 05:21 PM']This thread was actually answered at the top of the 2nd page
The rest has been just bigging up Petersons; even though the SR Turbo Tuner is better![/quote]


How comes I always end up "finishing myself off" over the Peterson website then?

[Hamster]

Thinking about the way in which some cabinet manufacturers make questionable claims about their cabs sensitivity, unless anyone here has subjected all these tuners to independent bench testing, are we being sucked just a little bit into the manufacturers hype about their own products?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Hamster' post='496714' date='May 24 2009, 05:40 PM']Thinking about the way in which some cabinet manufacturers make questionable claims about their cabs sensitivity, unless anyone here has subjected all these tuners to independent bench testing, are we being sucked just a little bit into the manufacturers hype about their own products?[/quote]

The still, small voice of reason.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Hamster' post='496714' date='May 24 2009, 05:40 PM']Thinking about the way in which some cabinet manufacturers make questionable claims about their cabs sensitivity, unless anyone here has subjected all these tuners to independent bench testing, are we being sucked just a little bit into the manufacturers hype about their own products?[/quote]

The Buzz Feiten system that rslaing is advocating along with this tuner is a neat system for dealing with a mechanical problem that's inherent in fretted instruments, in that the lower frets play sharper than they should due to the way the string stretches to a greater degree when you fret in these positions. This particular system involves requires an adjustment to the open string tuning, which means that you need to use a tuner with a special function that will tune the open string slightly flat (2 cents on most strings, it varies on guitar though). There are other tuners that have this function and they will work just as well as a strobostomp.

Other manufacturers compensated nuts use standard tuning.

I'd like to try out a Buzz Feiten system guitar, just to see if it does seem any different... I can honestly say the lower fret issue doesn't bother me that much, or, frankly, that I've ever noticed it when I haven't been looking for it, particularly when you've got additional temperament issues going on... the major third being 13 cents out of tune for example. Maybe compensated nuts work on a more subconscious level.

The Feiten system is not designed to address issues of equal temperament, and while the strobostomp does have alternative temperament systems, they're not applicable to equally tempered instruments.

The 0.1 cent accuracy claims are probably true, but any assertion that this level of accuracy is in any way necessary (or detectable by the human ear) in a real musical situation is pretty much hype.

[Paul_C]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='496758' date='May 24 2009, 07:10 PM']The Buzz Feiten system that rslaing is advocating along with this tuner is a neat system for dealing with a mechanical problem that's inherent in fretted instruments, in that the lower frets play sharper than they should due to the way the string stretches to a greater degree when you fret in these positions. This particular system involves requires an adjustment to the open string tuning, which means that you need to use a tuner with a special function that will tune the open string slightly flat (2 cents on most strings, it varies on guitar though). There are other tuners that have this function and they will work just as well as a strobostomp.

Other manufacturers compensated nuts use standard tuning.

I'd like to try out a Buzz Feiten system guitar, just to see if it does seem any different... I can honestly say the lower fret issue doesn't bother me that much, or, frankly, that I've ever noticed it when I haven't been looking for it, particularly when you've got additional temperament issues going on... the major third being 13 cents out of tune for example. Maybe compensated nuts work on a more subconscious level.

The Feiten system is not designed to address issues of equal temperament, and while the strobostomp does have alternative temperament systems, they're not applicable to equally tempered instruments.

The 0.1 cent accuracy claims are probably true, but any assertion that this level of accuracy is in any way necessary (or detectable by the human ear) in a real musical situation is pretty much hype.[/quote]


I've fitted Buzz Feiten nuts to a number of guitars (no basses) including one for *name drop* Steve Rothery *name drop* and it does make a difference, but I've always sold it with the understanding that: a ) it isn't a complete fix, but certainly an improvement and b ) it's more of a benefit for someone who's not happy with the sound of their guitar even at its best (just been set up, new strings, etc.). There have been customers who have been overjoyed with the result.

I can see the benefit when you're playing chords, not quite so convinced of its value on bass, but again, if you can hear something you don't like it might well be worth spending the money having it done (maybe of more use for those playing chords, on ERBs, for example)

I use a Peterson tuner (VSII) too, and it's more than earned its keep over the years, but as I set up guitars professionally I felt I had to own a decent one.

As has been said, there are many other factors that affect the note, and in a gigging situation, with changes of heat/humidity/adrenalin (or beer) making you play harder/grip the neck tighter etc., it might not make that much difference (and apart from very extreme situations, there won't be many in the audience that would give a damn if a note was flat or sharp unless even a cheap tuner could spot it).

[Lfalex v1.1]

Jeez, all I was trying to express was that increased tuning accuracy was arguably a moot point when compared to other factors which might well make a greater (negative) contribution than a cheaper tuner.

So... How does one install a BFTS shelf nut or compensated nut to an instrument with a zero fret and have it make any difference?

[Paul_C]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='496854' date='May 24 2009, 09:35 PM']Jeez, all I was trying to express was that increased tuning accuracy was arguably a moot point when compared to other factors which might well make a greater (negative) contribution than a cheaper tuner.

So... How does one install a BFTS shelf nut or compensated nut to an instrument with a zero fret and have it make any difference?[/quote]

you can't - you could move the zero fret though (before the shelf nut, the nut slot had to be filled and a new one cut)

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='rslaing' post='496645' date='May 24 2009, 03:41 PM']You should have read the previous posts.

The Peterson combats a lot of the points you have made, including problems with equal temperament on fretted instruments.

The others points you have made are down to bad technique - so I suppose a Strobe tuner will definitely not help with that.

A lot of the criticism here is coming from people who haven't got a strobe tuner, so logically their comments can be disregarded. They also haven't got a clue about the various benefits as they assume it is just a more accurate tuner - it isn't. It actually adjusts the tuning of the guitar (basically making it "out of tune" with itself) but making it more in tune aurally. But I can see there is no point in attempting to explain this judging by the reactions of the tone deaf amongst us.

I suggest people try one (it takes a few weeks to get the old tuner mentality out of the way, and actually learn how to use the strobe to it's greatest efect) and then give a more accurate appraisal instead of just giving reasons why they "think/assume" a cheapo pile of crap tuner could do the same job.[/quote]


The peterson probably can help with equal temperament stuff by using compensated tunings, but this is more to do with features than accuracy. Also, even with funny tunings and intonations this can only help hide the problems caused by equal temperament frets. It cannot make an equal temperament fretboard produce, for example, a just temperament scale. The only way to do this is by bending each note to the right pitch, which you are then reckognising by ear, so the accuracy of the tuner is rather wasted.

Fretting harder than you normally do could be down to bad technique.
Plucking harder and softer is a necessary part of playing - unless you play all your notes at the same volume - which would be rather boring.
Not pressing the string completely normal to the keyboard might be bad technique, but I'm sure every one does it ocassionally.
Strings going out of tune with temperature is nothing to do with technique, more physics.
Strings going flat when you fret two strings is nothing to do with technique (unless your technique means only ever playing one note at a time)
Intonation will not be accurate at all frets - nothing to do with technique. Compensating tunings help - but do not solve the problem.


I'm not saying, and never said, that the cheaper tuners are more accurate than the peterson or the turbo thingamy, but that in 99% of cases they are quite accurate enough.
In most real situations there are many features of a tuner that are more important than accuracy. For stage use I'd be looking at robustess, readabilty for 2 metres away on a dark stage, Speed of response, abilty to pick up the fundamental and, if its a stomp box style, the ability to mute the output while the tuner is active. etc etc.


If accuracy and compensating tunings is what you want (as per the original posting) then go for the turbo thingamy jig (apparently more accurate than a Peterson), but in most cases a much cheaper device will be perfectly adequate.

[rslaing]

[i]
""The peterson probably can help with equal temperament stuff by using compensated tunings, but this is more to do with features than accuracy. Also, even with funny tunings and intonations this can only help hide the problems caused by equal temperament frets. It cannot make an equal temperament fretboard produce, for example, a just temperament scale. [b]OH YES IT CAN. READ THE MANUAL ONLINE[/b]

The only way to do this is by bending each note to the right pitch, which you are then reckognising by ear, so the accuracy of the tuner is rather wasted. [b]RUBBISH! imho[/b]

Fretting harder than you normally do could be down to bad technique. [b]CORRECT[/b]
Plucking harder and softer is a necessary part of playing - unless you play all your notes at the same volume - which would be rather boring. [b]SOUNDS LIKE AN EXCUSE TO ME[/b]
Not pressing the string completely normal to the keyboard might be bad technique, but I'm sure every one does it ocassionally. [b]REALLY?[/b]
Strings going out of tune with temperature is nothing to do with technique, more physics. [b]BUY AN INSTRUMENT WITH A GRAPHITE NECK - LESSER CHANCE [/b]
Strings going flat when you fret two strings is nothing to do with technique (unless your technique means only ever playing one note at a time)[b]BOLLOCKS[/b]
Intonation will not be accurate at all frets - nothing to do with technique. Compensating tunings help - but do not solve the problem. [b]YES THEY DO. I have a strobe tuner that has proved this to be the case - have you?[/b]


I'm not saying, and never said, that the cheaper tuners are more accurate than the peterson or the turbo thingamy, but that in 99% of cases they are quite accurate enough. [b]NOT IN MY EXPERIENCE, NOR THE PROFESSIONALS I HAVE WORKED WITH - and I wouldn't want a pro luthier to set up any of my expensive instruments with el crappo £20 tuner[/b]

In most real situations there are many features of a tuner that are more important than accuracy. For stage use I'd be looking at robustess, readabilty for 2 metres away on a dark stage, Speed of response, abilty to pick up the fundamental and, if its a stomp box style, the ability to mute the output while the tuner is active. etc etc. [b]ALL OF WHICH APPLIES TO THE PETERSON STROBOSTOMP[/b]


If accuracy and compensating tunings is what you want (as per the original posting) then go for the turbo thingamy jig (apparently more accurate than a Peterson), but in most cases a much cheaper device will be perfectly adequate."[/i] AYE..IF YOU HAVE DEFICIENT TONAL HEARING DISABILITY.

[b][i]"go for the turbo thingamy jig"[/i] Great advice.but the Peterson still has more advantageous features.......[/b]

[b]It would be great, instead of hearing from people with unproved theories but with a great propensity for ridicule, to read experiences from people who actually own a Peterson strobe tuner[/b].

Edited May 24, 2009 by rslaing

[BigBeefChief]

You still here rslaing?

[dlloyd]

[quote name='rslaing' post='496891' date='May 24 2009, 10:39 PM'][i]
""The peterson probably can help with equal temperament stuff by using compensated tunings, but this is more to do with features than accuracy. Also, even with funny tunings and intonations this can only help hide the problems caused by equal temperament frets. It cannot make an equal temperament fretboard produce, for example, a just temperament scale. [b]OH YES IT CAN. READ THE MANUAL ONLINE[/b][/quote]

No it can't. The fretboard is equally tempered. To just temper it, you need to physically move the frets.

[rslaing]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='496893' date='May 24 2009, 10:43 PM']No it can't. The fretboard is equally tempered. To just temper it, you need to physically move the frets.[/quote]

[b]No you don't - just move or use a compensated nut (haven't you read the Feiten blurb yet?) and then use a Peterson tuner - set it to whatever temperament you like[/b]

Edited May 24, 2009 by rslaing

[rslaing]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='496892' date='May 24 2009, 10:41 PM']You still here rslaing?[/quote]

Another "on topic" comment...........(not)

Edited May 24, 2009 by rslaing

[BigBeefChief]

Yep. Still here.

[phil_the_bassist]

i have a strobo, it looks like a shiny silver racecar and it is very useful for throwing at guitards.

Nuff said, IMHO.

[rslaing]

[quote name='phil_the_bassist' post='496900' date='May 24 2009, 10:52 PM']i have a strobo, it looks like a shiny silver racecar and it is very useful for throwing at guitards.

Nuff said, IMHO.[/quote]

You are correct - because they need it the most

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='rslaing' post='496896' date='May 24 2009, 10:50 PM']Another "on topic" comment...........[/quote]


What happened to "f*** this for a lark"?


You love it!

[dlloyd]

[quote name='rslaing' post='496894' date='May 24 2009, 10:49 PM'][b]No you don't - just move or use a compensated nut (haven't you read the Feiten blurb yet?) and then use a Peterson tuner[/b][/quote]

This is getting kind of boring.

The Feiten system does not magically create just intonation. It compensates for lower fret inaccuracy.

[rslaing]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='496904' date='May 24 2009, 10:54 PM']What happened to "f*** this for a lark"?


You love it![/quote]

I got a couple of emails from "supporters" asking me not to concede to the d***heads on here. Which I thought was good advice.

Edited May 24, 2009 by rslaing

[rslaing]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='496906' date='May 24 2009, 11:00 PM']This is getting kind of boring.

The Feiten system does not magically create just intonation. It compensates for lower fret inaccuracy.[/quote]

I didn't say it did. The Feiten system overcomes the main problem with fretted instruments and overall tuning. AND HAS THE FACILITY IF DESIRED, to tune to any temperament you wish - including just tempered.

The Peterson Strobe gives the facility to gain greater accuracy when tuning, with the ability to utilise the feiten system accurately and quickly when tuning.

If you aren't happy with the claims of claims of either Feiten or Peterson - try and sue them?

Have you experienced either, or are you just another "baiter"? If you haven't used them - how would you know what difference they make? I have, and I do.

Edited May 24, 2009 by rslaing

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='rslaing' post='496907' date='May 24 2009, 11:01 PM']I got a couple of emails from "supporters" asking me not to concede to the dickheads on here. Which I thought was good advice.[/quote]

Since you've changed your mind about posting on this thread, any chance of taking me off your PM block list so we can sort out any misunderstandings?

[rslaing]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='496912' date='May 24 2009, 11:09 PM']Since you've changed your mind about posting on this thread, any chance of taking me off your PM block list so we can sort out any misunderstandings?[/quote]

Sorry ........no. There are no misunderstandings. You made your point very clearly.

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='rslaing' post='496907' date='May 24 2009, 11:01 PM']I got a couple of emails from "supporters" asking me not to concede to the dickheads on here. Which I thought was good advice.[/quote]


Firstly, please stay on topic.

Secondly, I don't believe you!

I like you rslaing, but I'm starting to question your mental well-being. You have a habit of stating your opinions as fact and then accusing those who disagree with you of making "personal attacks". Ironically, whilst doing this, you like to make personal attacks of your own on others, calling them "nasty" and tone deaf. You also like to contradict yourself, accuse others of going "off-topic" when they don't agree with you, and flounce off only to come crawling back.

This is the internet, no one ever agrees with each other. If it wasn't for disagreements we wouldn't have web forums. Now I don't know you in "real" life, maybe you surround yourself with people who agree with your oracle-like knowledge about tuning a guitar. I'm sorry that this doesn't extend to BassChat.

As for all the [b]typing in bold[/b], please try and calm down and promise me not to climb a bell tower with a high powered rifle. I'll promise to buy an over-priced tuner if you promise not to do a Hungerford.

[rslaing]

[quote]"Firstly, please stay on topic.[/quote]

Secondly, I don't believe you! [b]FINE, [/b]

[quote]I like you rslaing, but I'm starting to question your mental well-being.[/quote]
[b]SO AM I, BUT ONLY SINCE I REGISTERED AS A MEMBER IN HERE[/b]

[quote]You have a habit of stating your opinions as fact and then accusing those who disagree with you of making "personal attacks".[/quote]
[b]NOT IF YOU ADDRESS THE TOPIC INSTEAD OF A PERSONAL ATTACK. THE RESPONSES I GET TEND NOT TO ADDRESS THE TOPIC, AS YOU WELL KNOW.[/b]

[quote]Ironically, whilst doing this, you like to make personal attacks of your own on others, calling them "nasty" and tone deaf. You also like to contradict yourself, accuse others of going "off-topic" when they don't agree with you, and flounce off only to come crawling back.[/quote]
[b]YEP, I MUST BE MAD[/b]

[quote]This is the internet, no one ever agrees with each other. If it wasn't for disagreements we wouldn't have web forums.[/quote]
[b]I ONLY ANSWER TOPICS IN WHICH I HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IN ORDER TO GIVE ADVICE, WHICH CAN BE ACCEPTED OR REJECTED. IF YOU THINK THAT FORUMS ARE FOR CREATING DISAGREEMENTS, THEN I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND YOUR PRESENT AND PREVIOUS INPUT[/b]

[quote]Now I don't know you in "real" life, maybe you surround yourself with people who agree with your oracle-like knowledge about tuning a guitar. I'm sorry that this doesn't extend to BassChat.[/quote]
[b]I APOLOGISE, I THOUGHT MY ANSWERS THAT WERE "ON TOPIC" MAY BE INFORMATIVE TO PEOPLE THAT HAD AN INTEREST IN THE SUBJECT[/b]

[quote]As for all the [b]typing in bold[/b], please try and calm down and promise me not to climb a bell tower with a high powered rifle. I'll promise to buy an over-priced tuner if you promise not to do a Hungerford.[/quote]

[b]I'LL IGNORE THAT ONE[/b]

Edited May 24, 2009 by rslaing