MODS pls move. High Tech materials that have changed your lives for the better or failed.

[JottoSW1]

14 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

And how much do you want to pay?

 

A BF cabinet could possibly be made for the same price if the internals were replaced by composites, but unlikely.

 

It would be a phaff to do and be a whole lot more nasty fumes to have around the workshop. I'd charge more for the minimal up lightnessing for sure.

OK you can turn out extremely high quality baffles elsewhere (ask an f1 team to lend you a modest autoclave ha ha) with adequate means to attach some high strength (simpleish plywood monocoques maybe) to interface with a slightly thinner ply shell plus a gentle coat of tuffcab or similar, then carry on from there. I've kept it short and you were polite as I might possibly know about some stuff. Thank you

I'll read more later folks.mostly Bill Fitzmaurice 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Since you asked...🤪

The shape makes a huge difference in how light a cab may be made. Bent panels are much stiffer than flat panels, which allows them to be made from thinner materials. Between bent panels and bracing one can make cabs from 3mm and 6mm plywood, with no ill effect. It's very labor intensive, but well worth the effort if you want the lightest possible cab still using inexpensive materials.

[JottoSW1]

2 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Most of that goes into electric motors for cars, and windmills that provide electric power to charge car batteries. The main reason for high neo pricing is most of it comes from China, which wants to corner the market on electric cars, so they raised the price on neo for export.

People have made cabinets out of everything imaginable, including concrete. But heavy materials just aren't practical, and they're not necessary. If you built balsa aircraft models as a kid you already know how to make structures that are very light weight yet very strong.

A friend of my father's had two concrete sewer pipes with a rudimentary dispersal arrangement on top and a pair of wharfedale Gilbert Briggs (8" i think) that my dad persuaded him to use after telling him the enclosures would still sound like shit. Now we have audiophile people who think your turntable has to look like a gasometer designed by HR freakin Geiger.

[JottoSW1]

On 31/07/2024 at 09:39, Chienmortbb said:

However you will need a PA  with bigger drivers/cabinets so that the audience can hear you so the savings are minimal both in cost and environmental terms.

Carbon Fibre, like Fibre Glass is not strong or tough until you brace it. The bracing can be made from many different materials even wood. However to achieve the lightness, you have to make some compromises. The best example of this is the nose and front wing of an F1 Car. You only need a low speed coming together to make a real mess of these carbon fibre constructions. 
 

One of the earliest composite materials that I can across was in the early Ramsa/Panasonic WS-A series. These were of a resin construction but had external moulded ribs/braces and were incredibly strong. Some of you may remember the Elephant adverts where a full grown elephant has one leg on each of four WS-A200 speakers. I still have some of theses and they are at least 30 years old. Composites are a good material but that extra bracing comes at the price of weight. While not being the heaviest cabinets, they are by no means the lightest.

 

Mike Arnopol, made some great versions of Dave ( Greenboy) Green’s designs in the US but he had to retire as the chemicals used had a massive impact on his health. 
 

So are we stuck with plywood? Yes and no. There are promising reports of the performance of bamboo ply. Bamboo is a grass  and fast growing so environmentally friendly and reportedly, light and strong. At the moment is is still hard to get and expensive. 
 

Thankfully builders like Barefaced, LFSys, BFM etc push the boundaries in sensible ways. 

 

 

There was a dude called Carl Douglas no not that one who built laminated moulded "ply" racing sculling boats and would do a final finish of any fancy wood you chose. If you decided to pay for a finish you'd potentially slaughter when you'd run your boat aground 2 days post delivery. Still probably easier than doing a structural repair of a carbon boat. Not as expensive as a high end acoustic but only certain artists ought to be encouraged to chuck their prized heirloom into a river

Edited August 2 by JottoSW1
Spelling boat

[JottoSW1]

17 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

In the sense that it holds the air in, the driver in one place, and your amp up, too bloody right it is structural!

 

Bonus points for keeping the outside world from breaking it. That's the bit it is not good at, because point loads.

So if you want to gig a GR you'll need a high grade flight case made utilising similar material which means how light is your GR plus a REALLY expensive flight case. And you'll realise GR should/could be finished with fancy faced and finished ply wood or Tuffcab ....I'm sort of kidding btw

[JottoSW1]

13 hours ago, BigRedX said:

If you really wanted to be cost effective and/or environmentally friendly you'd ditch your bass rig altogether and either use the PA foldback or IEMs.

Irrelevant with all due respect cos the statement does not refer to my question, other than indirectly.

[JottoSW1]

11 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

However you will need a PA  with bigger drivers/cabinets so that the audience can hear you so the savings are minimal both in cost and environmental terms.

Carbon Fibre, like Fibre Glass is not strong or tough until you brace it. The bracing can be made from many different materials even wood. However to achieve the lightness, you have to make some compromises. The best example of this is the nose and front wing of an F1 Car. You only need a low speed coming together to make a real mess of these carbon fibre constructions. 
 

One of the earliest composite materials that I can across was in the early Ramsa/Panasonic WS-A series. These were of a resin construction but had external moulded ribs/braces and were incredibly strong. Some of you may remember the Elephant adverts where a full grown elephant has one leg on each of four WS-A200 speakers. I still have some of theses and they are at least 30 years old. Composites are a good material but that extra bracing comes at the price of weight. While not being the heaviest cabinets, they are by no means the lightest.

 

Mike Arnopol, made some great versions of Dave ( Greenboy) Green’s designs in the US but he had to retire as the chemicals used had a massive impact on his health. 
 

So are we stuck with plywood? Yes and no. There are promising reports of the performance of bamboo ply. Bamboo is a grass  and fast growing so environmentally friendly and reportedly, light and strong. At the moment is is still hard to get and expensive. 
 

Thankfully builders like Barefaced, LFSys, BFM etc push the boundaries in sensible ways. 

 

 

This

[JottoSW1]

Thanks for replies. I like to think that I'm not trolling gr bass or the enthusiastic users of their gear. It looks lovely but ....

Next , does tonewood have to be expensive and if its not pretty but IS cheap is it still tonewood. Answers on a postcard via Ped at Basschat HQ . You also have a chance to purchase a guild x500 semi acoustic advertised on here for a respectful offer compared to B.i.N price  folks or I've wasted 20quid upgrading my membership 

[tauzero]

18 hours ago, JottoSW1 said:

So if you want to gig a GR you'll need a high grade flight case made utilising similar material which means how light is your GR plus a REALLY expensive flight case. And you'll realise GR should/could be finished with fancy faced and finished ply wood or Tuffcab ....I'm sort of kidding btw

 

Well, I gig mine in a soft cover (just for the travelling, I remove it for the actual playing, no matter how many times people beg me to leave it on). I also carry an acoustic guitar to open mic nights in a soft case. I make a point of not attacking either the GR Bass combo or the acoustic guitar with hard pointy objects, and so far both have survived.

[JottoSW1]

20 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Since you asked...🤪

The shape makes a huge difference in how light a cab may be made. Bent panels are much stiffer than flat panels, which allows them to be made from thinner materials. Between bent panels and bracing one can make cabs from 3mm and 6mm plywood, with no ill effect. It's very labor intensive, but well worth the effort if you want the lightest possible cab still using inexpensive materials.

For sure, especially since they are made here using a diligent and adept workforce.

I've enjoyed reading ALL of the responses. 

Sorry if I've digressed/rambled. Tech and production engineering is always fascinating 

[Dan Dare]

If you have a decent folding trolley, your cabs don't need to be the lightest possible. Don't go for cheapies from the likes of Rolson. If you're in the UK, have a look on the Parrs Workplace Equipment website. They do several trollies that fold flat. The one I bought will carry 100kg+, folds to 30"x19"x3" and cost just over £100 delivered. A lot cheaper than a set of GR carbon cabs, albeit not as funky looking (I do love that shiny black woven carbon fibre look).

 

Carbon fibre is fantastic stuff in the right applications. It has great tensile strength, recovers very quickly from flexing/bending and is light and rigid. I'm a golfer and an angler, so I'm a fan and have some nice carbon toys. It's disadvantage is that it doesn't like impacts very much, especially ones concentrated in a small area (such as you might get if you knock your carbon cab into a door handle). You can get around this by adding glass and kevlar to the weave and using specialised resins to bind it, but that adds weight.

 

It's also quite resonant, especially higher modulus carbons. The sections of my Daiwa Tournament fishing pole ring like a bell if you tap them with a finger. That's not a good thing in a speaker cab. Again, varying the mix of fibres and resins, together with bracing can alleviate this, but that will increase weight and negate the main advantage of lightness. You pays yer money and takes yer choice.

 

Edited August 2 by Dan Dare

[Dan Dare]

Double post

 

Edited August 2 by Dan Dare

[JottoSW1]

10 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

Double post

 

Insert Courier joke here..

I purchased an excellent folding aluminium parcel truck from Screwfix 35 quid or so a while ago. Highly recommended 

I know starting this thread was venturesome and cheeky... enjoyed it though. Like the estimable @la bam I'm a fan of Laney n series cabs. A friend is using an n115 for geetar they are great cabs tho Mr Fitzmaurice says the specs for the lavoce 10" speakers are iffy. . I don't use n410 much as too loud ha ha

[JottoSW1]

10 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

If you have a decent folding trolley, your cabs don't need to be the lightest possible. Don't go for cheapies from the likes of Rolson. If you're in the UK, have a look on the Parrs Workplace Equipment website. They do several trollies that fold flat. The one I bought will carry 100kg+, folds to 30"x19"x3" and cost just over £100 delivered. A lot cheaper than a set of GR carbon cabs, albeit not as funky looking (I do love that shiny black woven carbon fibre look).

 

Carbon fibre is fantastic stuff in the right applications. It has great tensile strength, recovers very quickly from flexing/bending and is light and rigid. I'm a golfer and an angler, so I'm a fan and have some nice carbon toys. It's disadvantage is that it doesn't like impacts very much, especially ones concentrated in a small area (such as you might get if you knock your carbon cab into a door handle). You can get around this by adding glass and kevlar to the weave and using specialised resins to bind it, but that adds weight.

 

It's also quite resonant, especially higher modulus carbons. The sections of my Daiwa Tournament fishing pole ring like a bell if you tap them with a finger. That's not a good thing in a speaker cab. Again, varying the mix of fibres and resins, together with bracing can alleviate this, but that will increase weight and negate the main advantage of lightness. You pays yer money and takes yer choice.

 

I saw a dude make a mistake with a carbon pole while I was in a Lincolnshire rowing event. He was walking up a side branch some way away and there was a woomph noise. He'd bumped a high voltage line and was history...

[itu]

On 31/07/2024 at 23:27, JottoSW1 said:

Next, does tonewood have to be expensive and if its not pretty but IS cheap is it still tonewood. Answers on a postcard via Ped at Basschat HQ.

Tonewood, sorry, I thought it was a ton of wood.

 

To @ped: your tonewood is too cheap and it will NOT be considered as a tonewood, because it is

a) local (imported is priced higher, because it is imported),

b) cheap (see previous),

c) looks different than mine (yours cannot be as good as mine),

d) wasn't used by Leo, or Les,

e) add any opinion.

 

Case closed. I did not use any tonepaper, or tonepen, nor even toner to this answer.

[ped]

I mean it can be tonewood but just have bad toan

[paul_5]

I had some bad toan once - Cobra bass amp. It was neither lightweight or hi-tech.

[JottoSW1]

1 hour ago, paul_5 said:

I had some bad toan once - Cobra bass amp. It was neither lightweight or hi-tech.

Sounded great on "Fangs for the memory" tho 

[JottoSW1]

Good remembering name of cheapo tonewood - Agathis 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Where tone wood is concerned  I've found that the lower the wood density the more absorbent it is of mids and highs, and the lower it is in sustain. Conversely the higher the density the brighter the tone and the better the sustain. I like a bright tone and long sustain, so I made my bass from rosewood, which is so dense it barely floats. That also would make it a back breaker if solid, so I made it of neck through construction with hollowed bouts, similar to Rickenbacker. It might not be everyone's cuppa, but it's served me well going on 25 years.

[itu]

@Bill Fitzmaurice please, we see only txt, no pics.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[Dan Dare]

19 hours ago, JottoSW1 said:

I saw a dude make a mistake with a carbon pole while I was in a Lincolnshire rowing event. He was walking up a side branch some way away and there was a woomph noise. He'd bumped a high voltage line and was history...

 

Yep. It's also a great electrical conductor. You have to be careful, especially out in the countryside, where high voltage lines can be quite close to the ground. You don't even need to touch one. Get it close enough and it can arc.

[Mykesbass]

That's some very fine carving @Bill Fitzmaurice!

[Stub Mandrel]

Here's a real world experience.

 

Bass dircet warned me a GR bass cab was NOT the eay to go if I was chucking gear in the back of a van.

 

I've now been had my AT212 slim for over three years, gigging for nearly as long.  I have had to replace several plastic corners (there was an issue with the plastic being brittle, they sent me a bunch of ones with a more flexible formulation). Also a foot got knocked loose and I used CA to help keep it in place.

 

Otherwise it's in as good condition as any cab would be after three years of rehearsals and gigs, with only one slight ding on the top edge.

 

I have no reason to question GRBASS's claims for efficiency, power handling or response. I have had nothing but positive comments on my tone since getting it, and I typically use my Orange Terror with the tone controls near flat and the master volume at about 9 o'clock.

 

Yes, something heavier could sound as good and would probably stand up to rougher treatment. But I treat it with a modicum of respect and I've yet to hear a better sounding cab.

 

In a cab shootout at the Southwest Bass Bash (2022), most people placed it close to the Lfsys cab, with mine sounding slightly mid-scooped in an A/B comparison. Both cabs sounded incredible with the same range of music across various genres being played through them (not basses).

 

Most of all, the sheer convenience of being able to carry such a good cab in one hand without compromising on sound is worth every penny.