What is thump?

[earlyman]

For most of us I’d guess that thump from a good amp/speaker is up there among the most pleasing aspect of a good live sound. But…. What is thump? Rather, why is thump?! It’s not the same as loudness, is it? but how is it different? Why do some amps give you thump while others, though just as loud, don’t?

 

Thanks 

 

 

[Mykesbass]

Is it this month's Heft?

[Bolo]

Thump is the whoomp from cheap oversized subs in cheaper smal cars driven by baseballcapped chavs. 

 

Nothing to do with good bass cabs.

[SumOne]

If the chest ain't rattln' it ain't happenin'

[chris_b]

Thump is when the low mid's hit you in the chest.

[neepheid]

It means whatever you think it means

[40hz]

It's fairly easy to describe - a strong, loud and full initial attack of a note. Mostly a low-mid thing as @chris_b stated. Interchangeable with 'punch', as, to me, they are more or less the same thing.

Edited August 4, 2024 by 40hz

[Downunderwonder]

2 hours ago, chris_b said:

Thump is when the low mid's hit you in the chest.

80hz is the home of thump. Your chest has a natural resonance around there.

 

I don't think it is coincidence the harmonic of a low E is also living there.

[ahpook]

7 hours ago, neepheid said:

It means whatever you think it means

 

Exactly. See: 'growl', 'heft', 'punch', etc.

[Mykesbass]

As this conversation comes up regularly (on here and elsewhere), I thought I would have a look around to see if there were any guidelines to what can be very subjective, describing sound. There are a couple of well thought out pieces from sound engineers and academics, and they seem to be fairly consistent (with enough variance to imply they haven't just plagiarised each other).  I like this website as they have included frequency ranges to their terms. If you are happy to accept @40hz assertion that Thump and Punch are fully interchangeable then:

 

Punchy: Good reproduction of dynamics. Good transient response, with strong impact. Sometimes a bump around 5 kHz or 200 Hz.

 

Full glossary here: https://michaelrasbury.org/uva/images/notesimages/describingsound.pdf

[paul_c2]

10 hours ago, earlyman said:

 It’s not the same as loudness, is it?

 

 

 

"Loudness" is a very vague term but as I understand it, its often seen on older car stereo where they add a bit of volume; and a boost to lower and maybe higher frequencies too ("smiley face" graphic EQ). Whilst of course EQ settings are subjective, many older car stereo setups sounded quite terrible with flat EQ and the "loudness" disengaged, even if you adjusted the volume to match the loudness setting. 

[Bolo]

Well this is going all over the place, as expected.

 

For Loudness in hifi (not car stereo, which copied home hifi) see Fletcher-Munson.

 

Thump is in the sub 100Hz, punch is as described by Mykesbass, they are not the same.

[Rodders]

I understand thump to be the opposite of sustain, some people may look at thump as being the same as punch? 

[Mykesbass]

10 minutes ago, Bolo said:

Well this is going all over the place, as expected.

 

For Loudness in hifi (not car stereo, which copied home hifi) see Fletcher-Munson.

 

Thump is in the sub 100Hz, punch is as described by Mykesbass, they are not the same.

I stand corrected. None of the sources I found mentioned Thump, and initially thought the two related as synonyms. Looking further, there are differences, especially where sound is concerned. 

 

@bolo do you have a reference for the sub 100Hz definition please? 

[Bolo]

2 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

do you have a reference for the sub 100Hz definition please

The terms are perhaps best separated by drum kick mixing like here https://www.crate.fm/tutorials/mastering-the-art-of-kick-drum-production-a-complete-guide-for-music-producers

 

"Creating a good kick drum is not just about the 'thump' or 'boom' " 

And later 

"The rapid downward pitch envelope makes that satisfying punch"

 

So thumping subs have a lot of boom (or even whoomp) and they are punchy if they react fast or 'tight' .

[diskwave]

10 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

I don't think it is coincidence the harmonic of a low E is also living there.

Its debatable, every instrument seems different., My Sq CV 70's P has the most glorious thumpiness  from C to D on A.

[NHM]

The Peavey Minimax has a Punch button, and according to the manual: 'This switch engages a boost of 6dB at 100Hz, which greatly enhances the low-end presence of the bass guitar.'

[Rosie C]

20 hours ago, earlyman said:

What is thump? Rather, why is thump?! It’s not the same as loudness, is it? but how is it different?

 

"Thump" is a double bass with Innovation "black rockabilly" strings. 😉 

[Dan Dare]

51 minutes ago, NHM said:

The Peavey Minimax has a Punch button, and according to the manual: 'This switch engages a boost of 6dB at 100Hz, which greatly enhances the low-end presence of the bass guitar.'

 

My Aguilar AG700 has the same button (or rather a button that does the same thing). It seems to me to be more a device intended to impress in the showroom. At working volumes, it's too much and OTT. I almost always cut, rather than boost eq, but using the bass control to boost allows you to add the desired amount of extra low end subtly, rather than the all or nothing you get with the button. Trust me when I say you wouldn't want to use both at the same time.

[NHM]

31 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

My Aguilar AG700 has the same button (or rather a button that does the same thing). It seems to me to be more a device intended to impress in the showroom. At working volumes, it's too much and OTT. I almost always cut, rather than boost eq, but using the bass control to boost allows you to add the desired amount of extra low end subtly, rather than the all or nothing you get with the button. Trust me when I say you wouldn't want to use both at the same time.

I used a Minimax for a gig yesterday afternoon - I engaged the Punch but cut the bass eq. and was really happy with the sound. The fan noise was insignificant.

[JottoSW1]

There is a useful alternative martial art , (not the Goodies bbc comedy show one) That was ecky thump.

The Yorkshire version is

Tyke whann Dohh

Edited August 5, 2024 by JottoSW1

[Graham56]

How you deal with an over-enthusiastic guitarist...

[Mykesbass]

1 minute ago, Graham56 said:

How you deal with an over-enthusiastic guitarist...

See Punch above 😎

[Frank Blank]

The OED definition, just for reference of course...

 

Thump (v) - To strike or beat heavily, as with the fist, a club, or any blunt instrument, producing a dead, dull, somewhat hard sound; also, without reference to the sound produced, to hammer, pound, knock forcibly.

 

Thump (n) -  'hard heavy dead dull blow with something blunt’ (Johnson), as with a club or the fist; a heavy knock; also, the heavy sound of such a blow (not so dull as a thud). Also figurative.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

The best thump sound and feel for me , was playing the humbucker pick by the neck telecaster bass through an Aguilar amp head , through an angular cab with no tweeter .  It helped that the drummer loved the sound too , after remarking that the Aguilar setup looked like something from a '50s coffee shop ..