NAD: 1992 Gallien-Krueger 400RB

[ossyrocks]

I bought this from the classifieds here. My old friend @shug has one of these, and, despite being a remarkable human being, and probably the best bass player in the north west, he also sounds very good. At a festival gig a couple of months ago, his band were on after mine. My wife Jan and I stayed for the evening and enjoyed the show. This amp, through Barefaced 10's, and Shugs playing, combined to be simply sublime.

 

So, I have to try one don't I?

 

Anyway, it's here. It's not the best example you might find. It had loose DIY rack ears mounted with pop rivets which have now been removed, and the case is a bit battered and scratched. But it's functional, and I've spent a bit of time with it over the last couple of days.

 

I have other splendid amps, some quite expensive, but this thing has me scratching my head. It sounds bloody marvelous! It's so present, so right here in the room, so hefty, weighty and toneful. It's got me wondering that modern amp manufacture has taken a wrong turn somewhere. Why didn't they just stop here? I actually can't believe that tomorrow night I'm choosing to take the cheapest bit of kit I own out for a gig, and I'm really looking forward to using it.

 

Yours, puzzled,

Rob

[JGSpector]

They are great aren't they. Later than your 1992 example but i had a GK 1001RB back in the early 2000s (2002 I think I got it) that I used exclusively all the way through to 2016. The only reason i stopped using it was because i was starting to have some reliability issues with it and it was costing me a lot of money to keep it going. Apart from about the last 18 months to 2yrs it was absolutely fantastic. As you say, the weightiness in the tone and presence. That was the last class A amp Owned and have stayed with class D ever since. I have tried loads of class D out and have liked a lot of them but the best in my personal opinion being the Bergantino Forte HP2.

 

I'm always keeping a look out for one of the GK class A amps like yours or indeed my old one but just haven't come across any.

 

Having said all that, I have an EBS Fafner 2 arriving tomorrow and I am very excited. I wanted one back in the day but just couldn't afford one at the time.

 

Really pleased your enjoying the new old amp, bet that will sound fantastic when you use it over the weekend.

[ossyrocks]

5 minutes ago, JGSpector said:

They are great aren't they. Later than your 1992 example but i had a GK 1001RB back in the early 2000s (2002 I think I got it) that I used exclusively all the way through to 2016. The only reason i stopped using it was because i was starting to have some reliability issues with it and it was costing me a lot of money to keep it going. Apart from about the last 18 months to 2yrs it was absolutely fantastic. As you say, the weightiness in the tone and presence. That was the last class A amp Owned and have stayed with class D ever since. I have tried loads of class D out and have liked a lot of them but the best in my personal opinion being the Bergantino Forte HP2.

 

I'm always keeping a look out for one of the GK class A amps like yours or indeed my old one but just haven't come across any.

 

Having said all that, I have an EBS Fafner 2 arriving tomorrow and I am very excited. I wanted one back in the day but just couldn't afford one at the time.

 

Really pleased your enjoying the new old amp, bet that will sound fantastic when you use it over the weekend.

It's funny you mentioned Bergantino. That's what I've been A/B'ing it against tonight, a Forte D, which has been my usual gigging amp for the last few gigs. Whouda thunk it !

[ossyrocks]

I will also add, it's flippin' loud for its 200w rating.

[fretmeister]

Lovely! One of my favourite amps but I've never owned one

[msb]

I had the second version with the removable power cord. Used it for years , was incredibly reliable despite being dropped and banged around. Every seven or eight years I’d get it cleaned out. Replaced it with the IV version and then replaced that with a GenzBenz StreamLiner. 
That RB was much easier to dial in. Never let me down , it was bulletproof. 

[ossyrocks]

52 minutes ago, msb said:

I had the second version with the removable power cord. Used it for years , was incredibly reliable despite being dropped and banged around. Every seven or eight years I’d get it cleaned out. Replaced it with the IV version and then replaced that with a GenzBenz StreamLiner. 
That RB was much easier to dial in. Never let me down , it was bulletproof. 

This is the second version too. I'm just home from the first gig with it. It's great, I think it's going to become my main amp, which is bonkers as I have invested a ton in more modern and new amps. I always carry a spare, so if the worst happens, it won't be a disaster. My band isn't shy, we're on the enthusiastic side of volume levels, and I was barely tickling this thing, it had loads left to give. 

 

The bass and the cab have a lot to do with it too. Tonight I was using my 1970 P bass with La Bella flats and a Barefaced 3x10 cab which is 4 ohms. The cab really brings out the best of any amp I run through it, and I love the sound of their 10's.

 

I'm thinking I'll find someone good to give it a look over and a service, so I can be confident in using it.

 

Rob

[umcoo]

I love those old GK RB heads. I've got a 1986 800RB at the moment which sounds so good. 

 

I've heard very good things about the 400RB's too. Looks like a great rig, enjoy it!

[ossyrocks]

Last nights gig, The Hope & Anchor in Ulverston. I've never played it before. It was tiny. But probably one of the most friendly and welcoming pubs I've been in for a long time. Lovely place, lovely audience, and we went down a storm.

 

Here's the GK rig out in the wilds of Cumbria.

 

Rob

[msb]

I bought mine new , and must have run it for close to twenty years. It was never in a rack or case so it was constantly getting banged around. Probably the most reliable piece of gear I ever had. And people frequently commented on the sound. 
Possibly the easiest thing to dial in. I had a tech friend clean it out a couple of times. Nothing was ever replaced.
When I decided it was time for a new amp I was originally thinking of a bigger GK , but my amp tech suggested that if I liked the 400 so much I should really get another. So I found the IV version on kijiji for a great price. The quarter inch line out on the model#2 was noisy (my only complaint) and the IV had a balanced xlr out , and they slightly bumped up the wattage. I liked the IV too.

It was eventually replaced with a 900 watt StreamLiner.
 

Another classic.

[ossyrocks]

36 minutes ago, msb said:

I bought mine new , and must have run it for close to twenty years. It was never in a rack or case so it was constantly getting banged around. Probably the most reliable piece of gear I ever had. And people frequently commented on the sound. 
Possibly the easiest thing to dial in. I had a tech friend clean it out a couple of times. Nothing was ever replaced.
When I decided it was time for a new amp I was originally thinking of a bigger GK , but my amp tech suggested that if I liked the 400 so much I should really get another. So I found the IV version on kijiji for a great price. The quarter inch line out on the model#2 was noisy (my only complaint) and the IV had a balanced xlr out , and they slightly bumped up the wattage. I liked the IV too.

It was eventually replaced with a 900 watt StreamLiner.
 

Another classic.

How did the mark IV compare with your original mark II tonewise?

[casapete]

Wonderful amps. Had a lot of GK stuff over the years, my favourite being my 800RB which I must have

now owned for maybe 20 years (pic below).The 400RB in the same series sound very close to this one and as you

say, are loud things. The later models such as the 700RB and 1001RB are also brilliant amps, just not

quite the same as the earlier ones though IMHO. I used the 1001RB for over 10 years touring and it 

never missed a beat. When you can get quality class AB amps like this that weigh around 22lbs, it does narrow the advantage class D lightweight amps usually have.
I had the MB800 and MB500 and liked both, but the RB models are still my favourites.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15 by casapete
Fact check

[ossyrocks]

1 hour ago, casapete said:

Wonderful amps. Had a lot of GK stuff over the years, my favourite being my 800RB which I must have

now owned for maybe 20 years (pic below).The 400RB in the same series sound very close to this one and as you

say, are loud things. The later models such as the 700RB and 1001RB are also brilliant amps, just not

quite the same as the earlier ones though IMHO. I used the 1001RB for over 10 years touring and it 

never missed a beat. When you can get quality class A amps like this that weigh around 22lbs, it does narrow

the advantage class D lightweight amps usually have. I had the MB800 and MB500 and liked both, but the 

RB models are still my favourites.

 

 

 

 

 

Ooooh, would you look at that....'tis a thing of beauty.

 

I'm relatively new to the bass world, although now I'm here, it feels like home. As a consequence, I missed ALL of these amps over the past decades, and I'm still going through the process of seeing what works, and what doesn't for me. I'll gladly take recommendations from trusted sources and check them out, hence the GK 400RB as used and recommended by @shug. My amp background has been entirely vintage valve stuff, and I still have a couple, but it's generally not powerful enough unless it's too heavy to move. This is my first non-valve amp that isn't Class D, and I can tell the difference.

 

If you ever feel inclined to let yours go, please let me know.

 

Rob

[msb]

4 hours ago, ossyrocks said:

How did the mark IV compare with your original mark II tonewise?

It was a touch brighter. Not a huge difference. 

[bremen]

Curious as an endangered cat, I had a look at the schematic in search of clues. First glance it looks not unusual but look at the power amp input stage: I have no idea what's going on there, never seen anything like it. And it's got half the reservoir capacitance you usually see for that power of amp (and only the usual rail voltage) Has it a very big power transformer? There's some magic going on there...

 

It's not classA, by the way, class AB. Class A amps are hilariously inefficient; an amp stuffing 200w into a speaker would burn 2kW in heat.

 

Get me, what a geek. Sorry. Been up to my ears in solder fumes all day and it's done something to my brain...

[shug]

On 08/08/2024 at 20:43, ossyrocks said:

I bought this from the classifieds here. My old friend @shug has one of these, and, despite being a remarkable human being, and probably the best bass player in the north west, he also sounds very good. At a festival gig a couple of months ago, his band were on after mine. My wife Jan and I stayed for the evening and enjoyed the show. This amp, through Barefaced 10's, and Shugs playing, combined to be simply sublime.

 

So, I have to try one don't I?

 

Anyway, it's here. It's not the best example you might find. It had loose DIY rack ears mounted with pop rivets which have now been removed, and the case is a bit battered and scratched. But it's functional, and I've spent a bit of time with it over the last couple of days.

 

I have other splendid amps, some quite expensive, but this thing has me scratching my head. It sounds bloody marvelous! It's so present, so right here in the room, so hefty, weighty and toneful. It's got me wondering that modern amp manufacture has taken a wrong turn somewhere. Why didn't they just stop here? I actually can't believe that tomorrow night I'm choosing to take the cheapest bit of kit I own out for a gig, and I'm really looking forward to using it.

 

Yours, puzzled,

Rob

That looks a great rig, with all the virtues present - sound, reliability, looks and portability. Gonna have to get me one o' them 310's, though I am still interested in the 210 and I can't have both.

As to the other matters in your post,  I'm probably not even the best bass player in most of the bands I play in, never mind the entire region, but thanks anyhow. I'm good at finding gear that works for me, though...

Btw, those heads fit exactly into a bog standard camera/ equipment/ tool case with room for a mains and speaker cable.

How's the wireless set-up working for you? Saves a bit of onstage tangle and I'm guessing no effect on tone ?

 

[ossyrocks]

24 minutes ago, shug said:

That looks a great rig, with all the virtues present - sound, reliability, looks and portability. Gonna have to get me one o' them 310's, though I am still interested in the 210 and I can't have both.

As to the other matters in your post,  I'm probably not even the best bass player in most of the bands I play in, never mind the entire region, but thanks anyhow. I'm good at finding gear that works for me, though...

Btw, those heads fit exactly into a bog standard camera/ equipment/ tool case with room for a mains and speaker cable.

How's the wireless set-up working for you? Saves a bit of onstage tangle and I'm guessing no effect on tone ?

 

@shug I think the 3x10 is easier to move around than the 2x10 I had. It has more handles, plus it has wheels! 
I have an old case it almost fits the GK, but I’ve ordered some foam to make it fit better. 
I do like the wireless setup, I don’t know why I didn’t do it before. I have the Boss WL20’s and a  NU-X one on a higher frequency too, in case of problems, but I’ve never had to use it.

[Ruarl]

On 10/08/2024 at 18:54, bremen said:

Curious as an endangered cat, I had a look at the schematic in search of clues. First glance it looks not unusual but look at the power amp input stage: I have no idea what's going on there, never seen anything like it. And it's got half the reservoir capacitance you usually see for that power of amp (and only the usual rail voltage) Has it a very big power transformer? There's some magic going on there...

 

It's not classA, by the way, class AB. Class A amps are hilariously inefficient; an amp stuffing 200w into a speaker would burn 2kW in heat.

 

Get me, what a geek. Sorry. Been up to my ears in solder fumes all day and it's done something to my brain...

There’s an interview with Bob Gallien on YouTube where he’s discussing the new line of amps. He talks about his early designs. If I remember, he says that it was usual for the designs of the time to remain stuck at rail voltage if they hit it, and take a long time to become unstuck. He modified the design to come unstuck much more quickly. 
 

I’ll try to find the link later.

[cetera]

Welcome to the 'knowledge'.

 

I've played through most well known amp brands and I always come back to GK and, in particular, the original 80's/90's 400RB and 800RB heads. Pair either with an efficient 4 ohm cab and you have tone and volume for days. They're workhorses and will last years, punching through any mix with solid authority. Congratulations and enjoy the ride!

 

Btw.... A suggestion that many owners of old GK owners swear by...... put a short patch lead between the send and return on the fx loop and leave it there permanently (if not using the loop). It stop oxidisation in the iputs which can cause some intermittent audio drop outs.

[bremen]

2 hours ago, Ruarl said:

There’s an interview with Bob Gallien on YouTube where he’s discussing the new line of amps. He talks about his early designs. If I remember, he says that it was usual for the designs of the time to remain stuck at rail voltage if they hit it, and take a long time to become unstuck. He modified the design to come unstuck much more quickly. 
 

I’ll try to find the link later.

Thanks Ruarl.

 

That makes sense, but rail sticking is generally something you'd be very careful not to allow, early in the design...as crucial as preventing overheating really.

 

I suspect a lot of power amp stages in bass amps are just lifted from existing amps. The Trace mosfet is almost exactly the Hitachi design note (and a DIY project offered by Maplin), bloody good one though. The one I built could not be destroyed with conventional weapons. The GK does seem quite unusual. I'll ask my geekmates what they make of it.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12 by bremen

[Chienmortbb]

26 minutes ago, bremen said:

The Trace mosfet is almost exactly the Hitachi design note (and a DIY project offered by Maplin), bloody good one though.

Also the basis of the early HH MOSFET power amps.

[Minininjarob]

20 hours ago, bremen said:

Thanks Ruarl.

 

That makes sense, but rail sticking is generally something you'd be very careful not to allow, early in the design...as crucial as preventing overheating really.

 

I suspect a lot of power amp stages in bass amps are just lifted from existing amps. The Trace mosfet is almost exactly the Hitachi design note (and a DIY project offered by Maplin), bloody good one though. The one I built could not be destroyed with conventional weapons. The GK does seem quite unusual. I'll ask my geekmates what they make of it.

 

 

 

 

 

I have a GK combo and I love it, one day I hope to be able to get a 400 or 800rb - a lot of the USA 90s punk bassists used 400rbs into Ampeg 8x10 cabs (or whatever 8x10 can they could find) and they were loud enough for them so I think I’ll be ok!

[bremen]

What a likeable engineer.

 

So that relatively small reservoir capacitance wasn't just cheapskating. 

[Minininjarob]

1 hour ago, bremen said:

What a likeable engineer.

 

So that relatively small reservoir capacitance wasn't just cheapskating. 

I know his attitude about his products makes me want to get them. So funny that he was a bit miffed when he was asked to make another amp after his first one! 

[bremen]

Bob Got It Right First Time 😊