Finbar Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 I've come to a conclusion that I really just don't like compression at all for live work. I've tried really hard to like it, and I bought a few compressors (ranging from supposedly bad to supposedly good) to get an idea from more than one pedal, and it just doesn't do it for me. Its either too subtle (regardless of what anyone else says to me, subtle effects don't work in a full band mix for loud noisy aggressive music), or full on too much squish. I don't have a particularly noisy chain, but it usually just serves to raise my noise floor up to more annoying levels too. Question is do I sell the compressors I have, or do I keep them for when they one day might be useful? :/ Am I the only person who has this point of view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey1-8 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 [quote name='Finbar' post='496171' date='May 23 2009, 05:41 PM']Am I the only person who has this point of view? [/quote] Absolutely not, I've tried a few compressors myself and have had much the same experience as yourself. I sold all of mine. Don't regret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 [quote name='Finbar' post='496171' date='May 23 2009, 05:41 PM']I've come to a conclusion that I really just don't like compression at all for live work. I've tried really hard to like it, and I bought a few compressors (ranging from supposedly bad to supposedly good) to get an idea from more than one pedal, and it just doesn't do it for me. Its either too subtle (regardless of what anyone else says to me, subtle effects don't work in a full band mix for loud noisy aggressive music), or full on too much squish. I don't have a particularly noisy chain, but it usually just serves to raise my noise floor up to more annoying levels too. Question is do I sell the compressors I have, or do I keep them for when they one day might be useful? :/ Am I the only person who has this point of view? [/quote] Sell them, get some stuff you want to play with. If you need one, buy another, its pretty clear you aren't happy with the ones you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timloudon Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Can they not be used just to even out levels of other effects? I know that my Micro Q-Tron gives quite a volume boost, although I don't have a compressor, I'd like to be able to level everything out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danlea Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Well it sounds like compression just isn't needed for your type of live music. It's most important where you're providing a solid foundation (or pudding, as some people here like to call it) for the band, but certainly if you're playing like a guitar (only lower) it may not be what you want. You say you're noise floor is an issue - are you using overdrive/distortion pedals? If so, these act rather like hard-knee compressors themselves. timloudon - I wouldn't use a compressor to even out different effects levels as in order to do this the compression will most likely have to be severe enough to crush your playing dynamics. If your unit doesn't have an output level control you can always use a loop pedal with one, e.g. [url="http://www.redonionsolutions.co.uk/Loop/Single.htm"]http://www.redonionsolutions.co.uk/Loop/Single.htm[/url] with the passive volume control option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timloudon Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 [quote name='danlea' post='496413' date='May 23 2009, 11:25 PM']... I wouldn't use a compressor to even out different effects levels as in order to do this the compression will most likely have to be severe enough to crush your playing dynamics. If your unit doesn't have an output level control you can always use a loop pedal with one, e.g. [url="http://www.redonionsolutions.co.uk/Loop/Single.htm"]http://www.redonionsolutions.co.uk/Loop/Single.htm[/url] with the passive volume control option.[/quote] Nice. I shall consider this option when I have enough money to create a decent pedal board. That will also solve problems with pedals like the EHX Bass Micro Synth having a pretty dull passive tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 [quote name='Finbar' post='496171' date='May 23 2009, 05:41 PM']Am I the only person who has this point of view? [/quote] Probably not. I am travelling the same path, but I'm not quite so far along it as you are. The thing I find compression most useful for is cleaning up the signal and helping things like Octaver and Synth to track better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basszilla Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I don't bother with compression these days either. It's over rated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Fly Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 [quote name='Finbar' post='496171' date='May 23 2009, 05:41 PM']I've come to a conclusion that I really just don't like compression at all for live work. I've tried really hard to like it, and I bought a few compressors (ranging from supposedly bad to supposedly good) to get an idea from more than one pedal, and it just doesn't do it for me. Its either too subtle (regardless of what anyone else says to me, subtle effects don't work in a full band mix for loud noisy aggressive music), or full on too much squish. I don't have a particularly noisy chain, but it usually just serves to raise my noise floor up to more annoying levels too. Question is do I sell the compressors I have, or do I keep them for when they one day might be useful? :/ Am I the only person who has this point of view? [/quote] I like compression but equally, I think good sounding compression can be difficult to achieve. Whether we like it or not, the sound we hear from our amplifier is compressed. Every element in the sound generation (from the way we play to the speaker) introduces a compression. A pedal just adds a further compression to the signal. As every compressor has its own characteristics which is added to the natural compression of the signal chain the overlap of compression curves and timing, can (and often does) create an inexpressive and flat sound. This is why the same compressor between bass and a mixing desk often sounds better then a compressor in a live rig. If your cabinet has "strong personality" you may not need any extra compression. The compression you hear is probably enough. My suggestion is keep your compressor and if you practice with your headphones put it after a little it of EQ. You will be pleasantly surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 [quote name='Finbar' post='496171' date='May 23 2009, 05:41 PM']I've come to a conclusion that I really just don't like compression at all for live work. I've tried really hard to like it, and I bought a few compressors (ranging from supposedly bad to supposedly good) to get an idea from more than one pedal, and it just doesn't do it for me. Its either too subtle (regardless of what anyone else says to me, subtle effects don't work in a full band mix for loud noisy aggressive music), or full on too much squish. I don't have a particularly noisy chain, but it usually just serves to raise my noise floor up to more annoying levels too. Question is do I sell the compressors I have, or do I keep them for when they one day might be useful? :/ Am I the only person who has this point of view? [/quote] I'm pretty much the same as yourself too - like to feel the bass 'breathe' a bit. However, I think it can also depend on style of music, playing technique etc. Recently, in the covers band I'm in, found myself occaisionally using a limiter for some songs. But, in my originals band would never use a compressor/limiter, prefer to have plenty of dynamics. [quote name='timloudon' post='496289' date='May 23 2009, 08:33 PM']Can they not be used just to even out levels of other effects? I know that my Micro Q-Tron gives quite a volume boost, although I don't have a compressor, I'd like to be able to level everything out.[/quote] My Q-Tron like all of them is the same, the boost is too much. I'm going to mod mine with a simple output level pot, just to bring volume down to sensible level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I think you have come to a point where you have realised that you are responsible for your dynamics. I've NEVER used compression live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I think that compressors add a certain degree of safety when playing live. I'm not a big fan of using compression as an effect, although I think it's essential to get that phat reggae sound, but I definately wouldn't leave home without it. I believe the trick is to set the threshold so that for normal playing no compression is being applied so you still have the full required headroom for your dynamics, but it'll still kick in for those moments when you catch a string way too hard on a pop, or dig in too hard with the pick and prevent that embarasing moment when for one note you drown out the rest of the band. It may happen only once in a set, but i'd rather have it than not. A bit like an airbag I suppose. Of course for the inexperienced It's a useful tool to get consistency of volume, at least it was for me when I was starting out. I think most bassists will use less and less compression as their ability improves to the point where they eventually find it unneccessary and bin it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etienne Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I've tried several compressors over the years, and the only one I liked enough to gig with (Aphex Punch Factory) was nicked by some opportunist scumbag a couple of years ago- I didn't like it enough to replace it though- it must have been fate! Steve makes a good point about playing dynamics- to play with a solid, consistently even tone and volume across the range of your instrument without the aid of compression is one of the most difficult things to master as a bassist. It's equally challenging to be able to control the volume of your bass, from a whisper to a roar, without touching the volume knob on your bass or stepping on a boost pedal! Compression is a very useful and musical tool, but I think it's really important to have your sound together with the barest minimum of processing (or even none!). It takes a fair bit of practice and effort, but it's so satisfying when it starts coming together... It really IS all in your hands! I should say at this point that I am no expert here- I'm still working hard at all this stuff myself! Good luck to anybody else going down this path! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 [quote name='SteveO' post='496795' date='May 24 2009, 08:14 PM']I think that compressors add a certain degree of safety when playing live. I'm not a big fan of using compression as an effect, although I think it's essential to get that phat reggae sound, but I definately wouldn't leave home without it. I believe the trick is to set the threshold so that for normal playing no compression is being applied so you still have the full required headroom for your dynamics, but it'll still kick in for those moments when you catch a string way too hard on a pop, or dig in too hard with the pick and prevent that embarasing moment when for one note you drown out the rest of the band. It may happen only once in a set, but i'd rather have it than not. A bit like an airbag I suppose. Of course for the inexperienced It's a useful tool to get consistency of volume, at least it was for me when I was starting out. I think most bassists will use less and less compression as their ability improves to the point where they eventually find it unneccessary and bin it.[/quote] +1 That's pretty much my view.. Certainly, compression makes a huge difference when recording a bass but in a live setting, unless you are using it to achieve a certain effect, then controlling your dynamic range using your playing ability is a better way to go.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbar Posted May 24, 2009 Author Share Posted May 24, 2009 I don't find it even controls my dynamic range, so much as suppresses it. At the point you can really notice its on anyway. Otherwise all it does is just make me sound worse. Think I will be selling. Far more fun toys to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 [quote name='Finbar' post='496831' date='May 24 2009, 09:59 PM']I don't find it even controls my dynamic range, so much as suppresses it. At the point you can really notice its on anyway. Otherwise all it does is just make me sound worse. Think I will be selling. Far more fun toys to buy.[/quote] That's the point though, It's job is to supress your dynamic range. Don't forget that the compressor is a sound engineer's tool to stop transients from ruining a recording (or in this case from ruining a performance) I think that a perfect compressor shouldn't be 'visible' at all. I'm not trying to persuade you to keep it in the chain by the way. From your posts I don't think you need it, and if you feel that the noise is compromising your sound then definately bin it... or spend more on a transparent one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgie Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 I own a Demeter Compulator, and I've never felt the need to use it live. I agree with you, for live music, compression isn't the best thing. Playing dynamics will trump it any time IMO. I've toyed with the idea of selling the Compulator, but I think it'll be useful for recording, so I'm gonna keep it around. If you have more than one compressor, I think you should sell all but which you think is best. It'll free up some extra cash, and you'll still have your favourite compressor on hand if you need it. Just my 2 pennys worth. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mildmanofrock Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I don't really find that my EBS multicomp stifles my dynamics at all. If anything, it just seems to add some meat and sparkle to the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I just can't get the same sort of massive powerful sound without using parallel compression and master limiting. It gets the sound I want in the studio, and does exactly the same on stage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Some comments on here seem to be erring towards using compression for limiting purposes. Compressors even out the sound to a (generally) uniform level AND perform limiting on the top peaks, if you still want protection from spikes but want the dynamics, you mostly just want a limiter. There was an awesome thread on either here, BW or BT about the merits of a compressor vs limiters which had the roundabout conclusion that people don't need compressors as much as they think they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) I was wanting a compressor for yonks as I thought it would help my sound. I got a couple to try (borrowed) & was VERY disappointed. I had the same probs with it raising my noise floor up so when I didn't play, you got all the buzzes & things. If I put it before my Moogers it either had no effect (not even a phattening one) or it meant NO dynamics & things sounded pants. BTW, I get a brilliant Phat dub sound with the moogers & the exp pedal can be used to great effect, not a bad sound for a rock band Edited May 27, 2009 by xgsjx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Fly Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 [quote name='mildmanofrock' post='497745' date='May 26 2009, 07:28 AM']I don't really find that my EBS multicomp stifles my dynamics at all. If anything, it just seems to add some meat and sparkle to the sound.[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I think the perception of dynamics is quite different to what "dynamics" actually are. For example, when I was gigging with my massive pedalboard, my bass sound was extremely compressed. Obviously, if anything is extremely compressed, then it's dynamic range is greatly reduced. Due to the fact that my thresholds weren't too low, I could still drop quieter for softer sections. Seperately, using different combinations of effects pedals to increase the overall volume before a limiter sounded miles louder, but obviously this was perceived volume, rather than actual dynamics. So, I could create the same effect as lowering and raising the volume of the bass (with my fingers), without actually changing the volume of what came out of the amp bass much. I'm not sure if that's making sense, I just mean you can be a "dynamic" band and have an extremely compressed bass sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basszilla Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 hmmm...contrary to what I was saying about compression being over rated etc, i'm finding I do actually need to use it for a couple of songs to get long sustained single notes. Doh! backpedal...... *whistle* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 A compressor can help you get more sustain, but it's kind of the wrong way to go about it. If you turn your amp up you should get more sustain. A compressor creates the illusion of sustain by making the quieter "tail" portion of the note, louder relative to the loudest "attack" portion of the note. (unless i'm talking BS in which case I apologise!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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