Is running a band really worth it?

[dave_bass5]

3 minutes ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

This is very true. I’m lucky that my band are all likeminded, all practice our parts at home and turn up ready for rehearsal.

 

If one of us started to act as ‘the leader’ we’d be promptly told to get back in our box, I suspect. 

My main band does now, but it’s been hard work getting them to realise they have to do homework. They were quite inexperienced when i joined and put up some resistance, but in the end they all realised if they want to gig they need to be gig ready. 
 

My old band didn’t have a ‘leader’, but there was always a need for someone to take initiatives so in a way i was the leader, bit not in charge i guess. 

[Happy Jack]

2 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

My old band didn’t have a ‘leader’, but there was always a need for someone to take initiatives so in a way i was the leader, bit not in charge i guess. 

 

Worst of both worlds ... "Who appointed you God, then?".

 

 

[Mickeyboro]

3 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

 

Worst of both worlds ... "Who appointed you God, then?".

 

 

It’s a bit Dad’s Army though, isn’t it? You don’t take one step forward, the others all take a step back!

[Al Krow]

9 minutes ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

Horses for courses, isn’t it? We’ve had discussions about bringing in new members and deps and so on, and found ourselves in agreement - the four of us are the band. Remove one of us for a gig, and it’s no longer ‘us’. It might be good, it might even be better (god forbid!) - but it wouldn’t be us. 

 

This is very true and very much how our singer feels when one of the "core" band is missing. Personally I enjoy the variety and different approaches of talented musos who feel they are part of the band and all have something different and useful to contribute which gets shared across to whichever line up is playing.

 

What do you guys do when one of you can't make a gig, do you just have ad hoc deps coming in?

[Happy Jack]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

What do you guys do when one of you can't make a gig, do you just have ad hoc deps coming in?

 

Bizarrely enough, across the three bands I'm in this hardly ever happens.

 

The rock'n'roll outfit has a spare drummer on call, I suppose that in an emergency the soul band could call on a spare bassist, and ... erm ... well, that's it really.

 

[EssexBuccaneer]

8 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

This is very true and very much how our singer feels when one of the "core" band is missing. Personally I enjoy the variety and different approaches of talented musos who feel they are part of the band and all have something different and useful to contribute which gets shared across to whichever line up is playing.

 

What do you guys do when one of you can't make a gig, do you just have ad hoc deps coming in?

We only book gigs that we can all make. We’ve not had to deal with short notice absence yet - we’d have to cancel in that event.

[BigRedX]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

What do you guys do when one of you can't make a gig, do you just have ad hoc deps coming in?

 

I realise that this question is primarily aimed at people who play covers, but I thought I'd add the perspective of an originals band.

 

In our case we just don't do the gig. We had to turn down the opportunity to be support for Auger on a substantial part of their current tour because our synth player was on holiday with his family. It's disappointing, but other opportunities will come our way. Simply from a practical PoV having deps isn't feasible as there's more to being in this band than just playing the right notes. Any replacement synth player would need to have all the correct sounds programmed up, and someone replacing me would not only have to have a suitable Bass VI but would also need a decent multi-effects unit to allow them to switch instantly between bass and guitar sounds - one of the songs has several sections where it does this every two bars. 

 

We had deps for guitar and drums when I played in The Terrortones where getting a replacement was a lot simpler and the band was a lot busier, but a lot of the time the vibe on stage just wasn't right. Also one dep drummer managed to screw up the single twice in two different ways at the same gig (after messing it up in the main set we elected to play it again as an encore to make up for getting it wrong earlier). That was not a pleasant experience for the band or the audience.

[dave_bass5]

32 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

 

Worst of both worlds ... "Who appointed you God, then?".

 

 

God? 

Why would it seem like that because I called up agents and got the band gigs? If no one asks someone to do something nothing gets done.

 

 

 

Edited August 16 by dave_bass5

[dave_bass5]

29 minutes ago, Mickeyboro said:

It’s a bit Dad’s Army though, isn’t it? You don’t take one step forward, the others all take a step back!

Why do you say that? Who would be stepping back? 

Am I really to believe no one here makes any judgment calls in their bands, and things just magically happen.

[Muzz]

In my post I pointed out that the BL who organises everything gets to call it, I do nothing on that front so other than working diplomatically around things sometimes, I generally zip it and get on with being as low maintenance as possible. If I wanted to make judgement calls I'd need to put a lot more work in.

[Al Krow]

23 minutes ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

We only book gigs that we can all make. We’ve not had to deal with short notice absence yet - we’d have to cancel in that event.

 

Gotcha. Out of interest how many gigs a year are you guys doing and are any of the band reliant on income from the gigs, or is it more of a purely fun / hobby band, and gig fees more bonus "pocket money"?

[Mickeyboro]

22 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Why do you say that? Who would be stepping back? 

Am I really to believe no one here makes any judgment calls in their bands, and things just magically happen.

I am saying that’s how I became leader. I don’t remember volunteering…

 

Does that make sense? (Voice off: Don’t tell him, Pike!😂)

[Lozz196]

43 minutes ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

We only book gigs that we can all make. We’ve not had to deal with short notice absence yet - we’d have to cancel in that event.

That’s def my preferred method too

[TimR]

5 minutes ago, Mickeyboro said:

I am saying that’s how I became leader. I don’t remember volunteering…

 

Does that make sense? (Voice off: Don’t tell him, Pike!😂)

 

I've been in bands where the role rotates. When I joined one band the guitarist did everything, then he got busy with work and it was down to me, now the singer has stepped up.

 

If everyone is an adult, leading is easy, you just ask people, and they do what's required. It's not like you're bossing people around and putting unrealistic expectations and timelines in place.

 

Singer asks if we can do a gig on a date. We say yes and turn up. 

Edited August 16 by TimR

[Beedster]

27 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Why do you say that? Who would be stepping back? 

Am I really to believe no one here makes any judgment calls in their bands, and things just magically happen.

I get the original point, I suspect it referred to the idea that if one person starts to pick up the jobs that the others don't like doing or do badly, they step back even further from doing them. That's happened a lot in bands I've been in, often to be honest for the best as it means things get done quickly and are aligned

[EBS_freak]

Cancelling wedding gigs and corporates dont work like that. If you do that, don't expect to work again - especially if the work comes through an agent.

You have to plan for things like covid, illness, people being found under busses... and not being able to manage their own diaries.

Edited August 16 by EBS_freak

[casapete]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

Cancelling wedding gigs and corporates dont work like that. If you do that, don't expect to work again - especially if the work comes through an agent.

Absolutely this.

We had a situation once where our 8 piece function band were somehow double booked ( not our fault IIRC).

The solution? Two bands went out that day to separate events, each with 4 'original' members and 4 deps.

Far from ideal, but two wedding receptions were saved and we also saved our reputation in the process.

[EssexBuccaneer]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

 

Gotcha. Out of interest how many gigs a year are you guys doing and are any of the band reliant on income from the gigs, or is it more of a purely fun / hobby band, and gig fees more bonus "pocket money"?

We probably gig once a month, on average - though we’re still in our infancy. We don’t need the money at all, it’s a hobby for us. The money goes in a band kitty for band expenses/improvements etc 

[EBS_freak]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

Gotcha. Out of interest how many gigs a year are you guys doing and are any of the band reliant on income from the gigs, or is it more of a purely fun / hobby band, and gig fees more bonus "pocket money"?

I was speaking from a band full of FT musicians making money through the band/teaching

 

When you are coming from a hobbiyist point of view, cancelling gigs, having people turn up having not learned the set doesn't matter as much*

 

*but appreciate you don't have to be FT have a pride in what you are doing. 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

We probably gig once a month, on average - though we’re still in our infancy. We don’t need the money at all, it’s a hobby for us. The money goes in a band kitty for band expenses/improvements etc 

 

Sounds great and I wish you every success! Being in a hobby band can and should be a LOT of fun!

 

59 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I was speaking from a band full of FT musicians making money through the band/teaching

When you are coming from a hobbiyist point of view, cancelling gigs, having people turn up having not learned the set doesn't matter as much*

*but appreciate you don't have to be FT have a pride in what you are doing. 

 

For sure. We're all coming from this at different angles, expectations and pressures. 

And, as you say, if you've been booked to do a wedding then you absolutely can't be in a position to let the wedding couple down!

 

For semi-pro or pro musicians, there's going to be a difference in expectation from bandmates and clients alike, both as musicians and as band leaders.  And there will be many in such crews who will have taken the brave step of making (and teaching) music their "main" thing in terms of trying to make a living from it, while doing part time zero hour contracts to keep the roof over their heads. And that brings a whole different perspective to being in a band and a band leader.

 

Edited August 16 by Al Krow

[SH73]

Steve Harris and his manager Rod had a simple solution to band member problems. Sack and replace, although some decisions may have been a tad unfair.

[Jackopie1]

4 hours ago, casapete said:

Absolutely this.

We had a situation once where our 8 piece function band were somehow double booked ( not our fault IIRC).

The solution? Two bands went out that day to separate events, each with 4 'original' members and 4 deps.

Far from ideal, but two wedding receptions were saved and we also saved our reputation in the process.

We have also had to do that with our 6 piece weddings band.

 

I feel quite lucky with our 'main' band, which is also the biggest earner. Us 5 core members are all great friends, and there's deps on call that we have got to know well over the years. I look forward to our gigs as much as I used to when this group got together almost 10 years ago.

 

I think it helps that our singer, who is an exceptional front man, is very humble, and egos are left at the door!

 

Currently depping in a few bands where that is definitely not the case, and the rising tension is palpable.

 

[NHM]

I've played in various hobby bands for about the last 20 years. (To stay on topic, we amicably share out all the band-functioning duties between the four of us).

To echo the comments others have made, I think the problem comes when you start getting in deps it unsettles the equilibrium - in our case doing a particular gig was a bigger imperative than preserving the nucleus of the band. I've only done that once, when we had to draft in a lead guitarist for a prestige gig 'cos ours had important family stuff to attend to that day. While the ringer played fine, all the band chemistry was lost.

I realised that being a 'band of brothers' was just as important, if not more important, than fulfilling gigs and have argued against having deps since. So as a result we have cancelled a few, but retain our group ethos and (perhaps strengthened by not having outsiders come in) we have maintained a harmonious, open, trustworthy and supportive unit.

[ezbass]

1 hour ago, NHM said:

I've played in various hobby bands for about the last 20 years. (To stay on topic, we amicably share out all the band-functioning duties between the four of us).

To echo the comments others have made, I think the problem comes when you start getting in deps it unsettles the equilibrium - in our case doing a particular gig was a bigger imperative than preserving the nucleus of the band. I've only done that once, when we had to draft in a lead guitarist for a prestige gig 'cos ours had important family stuff to attend to that day. While the ringer played fine, all the band chemistry was lost.

I realised that being a 'band of brothers' was just as important, if not more important, than fulfilling gigs and have argued against having deps since. So as a result we have cancelled a few, but retain our group ethos and (perhaps strengthened by not having outsiders come in) we have maintained a harmonious, open, trustworthy and supportive unit.

Yep. Just a couple of gigs with a dep drummer - it wasn't 'right'.

[dudewheresmybass]

I did 15 years with my rock/ metal covers band that I started alongside the drummer.

 

I've had extensive experience managing musicians, and ran a large church worship team (75+) for 15 years, so I had no illusions that it might be a walk in the park.

 

He always used to say that it was his band, and we would guide the band together, as a partnership. 

 

Songs were chosen on a veto basis - meaning that we would all have a veto as to certain songs that we weren't prepared to deal with.

 

His were anything Kiss, Motley Crue, Rainbow amoung others. For my part I find most more recent bands bland and uninteresting.

 

The drummist was very good at loading other people's weapons for them to fire (there were plenty of little hushed conversations at shows where I was setting up lights, PA, monitors etc..)

 

For the final 5 years, I had been doing all the booking, promotion, and keeping PA and lights functional - And the previous 10 had been a partnership between me and drummer.

 

We had an issue with a younger singist who was outstanding, but very young and naiive, and had clearly been 'receiving guidance' from said drummist. He told me that it didn't feel like his band anymore. 

 

He told me that it had been brewing for a while when she arrived at a show announcing that it would be her last.

 

The guitarist we had at the time is very much a go with the flow kind of person, and said very little. 

 

In the end, I find the drummist had set up a band using former members of the band under a different name with a different bassist. 

 

This all happened mid '23 and to date they have had several guitarists come and go, and played one show which was received as being underwhelming.

 

On the other hand, I have been running a tribute act which is now receiving rave reviews and larger and larger bookings, alongside the originals band which is due to return to Europe again later this year for more shows, and picking up work from all over my area.

 

Needless to say the band I've been recounting all of this about is no more, and will not return. Lessons learned etc, etc, etc,