neepheid Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 (edited) SBMM have just released the Ray2 - a cheaper, passive only Ray. https://intl.sterlingbymusicman.com/products/intro-series-stingray?variant=42149276975219 Why do I say SBMM hates us? Because to buy one of these here, it's £350 - https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/240624426198008--music-man-sterling-intro-series-stingray-ray2-misty-green-amara In the USA - it's $250. When you convert our price back, that's $450. Nearly double the price. F U SBMM. They hate us, I tell you. Edited August 20 by neepheid 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 Sounds to me like they're expecting the UK to help artificially keep the domestic US price down. Very good of them... That would certainly be enough to push me to picking up the Sire Z3 instead, only another £49 and a whole lot better value for money. Thanks bit no thanks "Mr Ball". 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassApprentice Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 (edited) They look annoyingly nice (EDIT - until I noticed the control plate was missing, weird) I'll play a bit of devils advocate here - I reckon you'll see these below RRP fairly soon, say maybe £325 or £300 in a "sale" It's still not close to the £190 our friends in the States will be paying, but you'll get your trademark protected headstock shape in an (semi) affordable package. Edited August 20 by BassApprentice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezzaboy Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 6 hours ago, eude said: Sounds to me like they're expecting the UK to help artificially keep the domestic US price down. Very good of them... That would certainly be enough to push me to picking up the Sire Z3 instead, only another £49 and a whole lot better value for money. Thanks bit no thanks "Mr Ball". Agreed. I like SBMM but these are quite ugly, just doesn`t look right without the control plate and it seems to draw my eyes towards the ugly bridge . I wonder who they are aiming this model at? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted August 20 Author Share Posted August 20 2 minutes ago, jezzaboy said: Agreed. I like SBMM but these are quite ugly, just doesn`t look right without the control plate and it seems to draw my eyes towards the ugly bridge . I wonder who they are aiming this model at? People who missed out on the SBMM Joe Dart? People who like paying nearly twice as much for something as they would stateside? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassApprentice Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 Thinking further on this, it's probably an excuse to bump up the price of the standard Sub Ray4 and in turn, the Ray34 range. It's all about squeezing pennies from customers without providing much extra value. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH89 Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 6 hours ago, neepheid said: SBMM have just released the Ray2 - a cheaper, passive only Ray. https://intl.sterlingbymusicman.com/products/intro-series-stingray?variant=42149276975219 Why do I say SBMM hates us? Because to buy one of these here, it's £350 - https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/240624426198008--music-man-sterling-intro-series-stingray-ray2-misty-green-amara In the USA - it's $250. When you convert our price back, that's $450. Nearly double the price. F U SBMM. They hate us, I tell you. Thats OK . I hate them too . Poor QC . I have described them as musical firewood . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezzaboy Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 5 minutes ago, neepheid said: People who missed out on the SBMM Joe Dart? People who like paying nearly twice as much for something as they would stateside? Good point. On the GG page down at the bottom there is a SUB Ray for £399. I realise that is pretty cheap for one of these now as most seem to be around £430 but they are much better than this new model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 The thing that always puts me off these is that they use that same awful massive bridge that all of the Chingrays had before SBMM was a thing. It makes a really good looking bass seem cheap and nasty looking. Even Ali Express sell the smaller EBMM style ones so it's not like they can't have them made https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32845656954.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.71.5f643IOS3IOSc7&algo_pvid=6d261ab9-c8db-4a8a-8d1f-a967595361df&algo_exp_id=6d261ab9-c8db-4a8a-8d1f-a967595361df-35&pdp_npi=4%40dis!GBP!10.14!6.69!!!12.82!8.46!%4021039e0c17242193480226654e3082!65171794813!sea!GB!2087865099!X&curPageLogUid=XvmOUqe9F450&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch|query_from%3A 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_lefty Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 17 hours ago, neepheid said: In the USA - it's $250. When you convert our price back, that's $450. Nearly double the price Cost of shipping, import tax, VAT, exchange rates... I believe those things will play a more significant part. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 35 minutes ago, uk_lefty said: Cost of shipping, import tax, VAT, exchange rates... I believe those things will play a more significant part. Importing from the USA can be prohibitively expensive. I’ve fallen into that trap before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 The large bridge base plate only makes sense if it has the string dampers attached. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikNik Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 19 hours ago, neepheid said: SBMM have just released the Ray2 - a cheaper, passive only Ray. https://intl.sterlingbymusicman.com/products/intro-series-stingray?variant=42149276975219 Why do I say SBMM hates us? Because to buy one of these here, it's £350 - https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/240624426198008--music-man-sterling-intro-series-stingray-ray2-misty-green-amara In the USA - it's $250. When you convert our price back, that's $450. Nearly double the price. F U SBMM. They hate us, I tell you. Have you ever heard of a company called Rickenbacker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 3 hours ago, uk_lefty said: Cost of shipping, import tax, VAT, exchange rates... I believe those things will play a more significant part. I would agree with you if I was importing one directly, myself. But this is retail - the "island tax" is never usually this severe. This is a failure of distribution. SBMM pricing has been whacko for a while now - Mrs. Neepheid had to pry my jaw off the floor of Guitarguitar in Glasgow the first time I saw a 4 figure Ray34 and that was a few years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 I’m not saying that we’re not being ripped off, it’s almost certain that we are, but bear in mind that the US price will not include their local taxes. IIRC they quote prices without local taxes, as they vary from state to state, rather like here when things are quoted ex vat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 US local sales taxes are significantly less than UK VAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 32 minutes ago, BigRedX said: US local sales taxes are significantly less than UK VAT. Less maybe, but still an additional cost to the buyer that isn’t immediately obvious to non US residents (Canada is the same, in BC there were 2 taxes that jacked up the price by 14%). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Pricing aside I'm slightly confused about the thinking behind this. Is there that much demand for a passive Ray? If you want the classic Ray sound on a budget surely you'd look at the active options like the Sub or the new Sires for not much more. G&L did the Kiloton tribute a few years ago, which was a budget passive Ray type affair and while personally I thought it was a very good looking instrument, neither that or it's full fat US made sibling seem to have set the world alight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH89 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, neepheid said: I would agree with you if I was importing one directly, myself. But this is retail - the "island tax" is never usually this severe. This is a failure of distribution. SBMM pricing has been whacko for a while now - Mrs. Neepheid had to pry my jaw off the floor of Guitarguitar in Glasgow the first time I saw a 4 figure Ray34 and that was a few years ago. That'll be one of the ones with janky tuners and non functioning truss rod . Apparently you pay extra for that .🤔 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minininjarob Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 On 21/08/2024 at 11:30, Cato said: Pricing aside I'm slightly confused about the thinking behind this. Is there that much demand for a passive Ray? If you want the classic Ray sound on a budget surely you'd look at the active options like the Sub or the new Sires for not much more. G&L did the Kiloton tribute a few years ago, which was a budget passive Ray type affair and while personally I thought it was a very good looking instrument, neither that or it's full fat US made sibling seem to have set the world alight. I’m a relative newbie but isn’t the point of a ‘Ray that it’s an 18v active bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkMohawk Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 On 21/08/2024 at 11:30, Cato said: Pricing aside I'm slightly confused about the thinking behind this. Is there that much demand for a passive Ray? If you want the classic Ray sound on a budget surely you'd look at the active options like the Sub or the new Sires for not much more. G&L did the Kiloton tribute a few years ago, which was a budget passive Ray type affair and while personally I thought it was a very good looking instrument, neither that or it's full fat US made sibling seem to have set the world alight. Well, I think the goal with these is less to just be a passive Ray, and more that it's for beginners. This is basically the Squier Affinity of Ray's. Or, it would be, if UK pricing was the same as US. To me at least, this is just their effort to move into that beginners market with a classic shape that isn't another P or J. I think it's a somewhat interesting proposition, but the international pricing is going to make it a challenge for them to move these, especially when there's a HB alternative for less money available. Annoys me that the black and maple colourway has the white pickguard, rather than a black one too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 It'll be around 20% import duty and then 20% VAT. Shipping won't be that much more to the UK 'cause the basses will almost certainly be coming to the UK direct from wherever they're manufactured and not seeing the USA. And on top of the two 20%s, UK MI retailers typically expect significantly higher margins (that they then tend to give away with discounts) than do US retailers. So I don't think SBMM are being particularly greedy, they're just dealing with a dysfunctional market while simultaneously trying to make a crust. As to why they're introducing such an odd looking bass? Who knows. Has a whiff of a desperate need for sales to me. P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted August 23 Author Share Posted August 23 (edited) 49 minutes ago, philw said: It'll be around 20% import duty and then 20% VAT. Shipping won't be that much more to the UK 'cause the basses will almost certainly be coming to the UK direct from wherever they're manufactured and not seeing the USA. And on top of the two 20%s, UK MI retailers typically expect significantly higher margins (that they then tend to give away with discounts) than do US retailers. So I don't think SBMM are being particularly greedy, they're just dealing with a dysfunctional market while simultaneously trying to make a crust. As to why they're introducing such an odd looking bass? Who knows. Has a whiff of a desperate need for sales to me. P Agree to disagree - it's bad enough when "they" simply take the $ and change the symbol to a £ - this is way beyond that (as are the pricing of all SBMM instruments). I have heard it said that the EU uptick is because SBMM insist on having all their instruments made in Indonesia (or wherever) shipped back to USA for QC checks then distribute from there. If that's true, then it's unnecessary double handling which we end up paying for, all probably to placate a few local racists who wouldn't buy an "import" bass unless it's been checked for ebola or something by a fellow countryperson who's automatically better at their quality assurance job than some foreign brown person. Also - 20% import duty is way off the mark, it's about 5%. I forget precisely what it is, but it's definitely a single digit, not 20. Edited August 23 by neepheid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH89 Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 8 minutes ago, neepheid said: Agree to disagree - it's bad enough when "they" simply take the $ and change the symbol to a £ - this is way beyond that (as are the pricing of all SBMM instruments). I have heard it said that the EU uptick is because SBMM insist on having all their instruments made in Indonesia (or wherever) shipped back to USA for QC checks then distribute from there. If that's true, then it's unnecessary double handling which we end up paying for, all probably to placate a few local racists who wouldn't buy an "import" bass unless it's been checked for ebola or something by a fellow countryperson who's automatically better at their quality assurance job than some foreign brown person. Also - 20% import duty is way off the mark, it's about 5%. I forget precisely what it is, but it's definitely a single digit, not 20. Having witnessed the often reported appalling quality control of SBMM first hand , I think that its fair to say that if they are QC checking in the USA , which I am pretty sure they are not , then it is an absolute waste of time and money . I think you may have found the real reason that they say they QC in the USA . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBass Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 9 hours ago, neepheid said: Also - 20% import duty is way off the mark, it's about 5%. I forget precisely what it is, but it's definitely a single digit, not 20. I believe import duty on musical instruments is 3% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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