BillyBass Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 On 21/08/2024 at 11:30, Cato said: Pricing aside I'm slightly confused about the thinking behind this. Is there that much demand for a passive Ray? If you want the classic Ray sound on a budget surely you'd look at the active options like the Sub or the new Sires for not much more. G&L did the Kiloton tribute a few years ago, which was a budget passive Ray type affair and while personally I thought it was a very good looking instrument, neither that or it's full fat US made sibling seem to have set the world alight. I had and sold a Kiloton Tribute. It did a Rayish sound but even with the three different coil split etc options, I found it lacked a little versatility (and it was heavy). I'm keen on the Sire Z7 as it has a pre amp and also a neck single coil and the bridge humbucker is in the Stingray position, not nearer the bridge, like most dual humbucker basses. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 On 21/08/2024 at 07:42, tegs07 said: Importing from the USA can be prohibitively expensive. I’ve fallen into that trap before. I doubt any SBMM instrument sees the USA territory, unless an USAnian buys one. They originally claimed to be built overseas and sent to EBMM for QC and setup. That has not been the case in years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 (edited) 21 hours ago, mcnach said: I doubt any SBMM instrument sees the USA territory, unless an USAnian buys one. They originally claimed to be built overseas and sent to EBMM for QC and setup. That has not been the case in years. Well, that just makes it worse. It's simply price gouging then (unless they've got themselves entangled in the worst distribution deal in history - I'm really trying to give benefit of the doubt here, but I'm running out of ideas/options). All other manufacturers seem to be able to get their wares here for a price comparable to the USA one, even if it is simply by changing the $ into a £. Edited August 25 by neepheid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 21 hours ago, mcnach said: I doubt any SBMM instrument sees the USA territory, unless an USAnian buys one. They originally claimed to be built overseas and sent to EBMM for QC and setup. That has not been the case in years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 Just now, tegs07 said: Well they are either lying and the whole thing is a big conspiracy, or they are telling the truth and import duties plus economies of scale make the instruments more expensive in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH89 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 My money is on them lying 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minininjarob Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, tegs07 said: Well they are either lying and the whole thing is a big conspiracy, or they are telling the truth and import duties plus economies of scale make the instruments more expensive in the UK. If the quality was good enough in their country of manufacture then they could just ship them to the countries to be sold direct - you’re paying duty to get them to the USA then again to the UK. I bet we’d be flabbergasted to find out how much they cost out of the factory door, I’d wager £100-150 at most for a £500 bass if it has to go via the USA. You’re paying a lot of money to get that “checked by our awesome techs in the USA” promise. Edited August 25 by Minininjarob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 3 hours ago, Minininjarob said: If the quality was good enough in their country of manufacture then they could just ship them to the countries to be sold direct - you’re paying duty to get them to the USA then again to the UK. I bet we’d be flabbergasted to find out how much they cost out of the factory door, I’d wager £100-150 at most for a £500 bass if it has to go via the USA. You’re paying a lot of money to get that “checked by our awesome techs in the USA” promise. TBH I wouldn’t buy one new. There are so many decent used bases available (even just on BC) that I doubt that I will buy a new bass ever again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 8 hours ago, tegs07 said: Yes, they haven't changed that, I wonder why... Feel free to ask EB himself in the EBMM forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 7 hours ago, Minininjarob said: If the quality was good enough in their country of manufacture then they could just ship them to the countries to be sold direct - you’re paying duty to get them to the USA then again to the UK. I bet we’d be flabbergasted to find out how much they cost out of the factory door, I’d wager £100-150 at most for a £500 bass if it has to go via the USA. You’re paying a lot of money to get that “checked by our awesome techs in the USA” promise. And if that promise were true, they must be checked by the kindergarden age progeny of the EBMM people who do that for the USA instruments. From early 2022 there's been issues with tuners with gears that chew themselves and stuck truss rods. They seem to be doing better again, but... there's no way somebody checked my Ray35, maybe they just went "yup, it's a bass, how many strings? Check" I noticed the tuners straight away. Truss rod, the minute I went to adjust it. Fortunately the truss rod must have just had some glue or something because the old trick tapping along the back of the neck freed it. It's a great bass now, with Hipshot Untralites, but crazy expensive. I just wanted that particular finish so I didn't bother returning it once I found my experience was far from unique. Initially SBMM seemed great but when the main guy, who used to post a lot on TB, left, it looks like they focused on pretty looks and not so much on the quality anymore. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 (edited) Review up: Looks quite cool and sounds ok but seems to be just another standard cheapy with a poorly finished neck and rubbish pots. Edited September 3 by lemmywinks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Edge Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 On 25/08/2024 at 11:56, tegs07 said: Well they are either lying and the whole thing is a big conspiracy, or they are telling the truth and import duties plus economies of scale make the instruments more expensive in the UK. If they do take them in to the US for QC declared as temporary import for export only, as long as no work is done which would increase value, then there should be no US applied import taxes. That’s how it works in the UK anyway, I don’t imagine it would be any different over there as it would just be a waste of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 18 hours ago, Cliff Edge said: If they do take them in to the US for QC declared as temporary import for export only, as long as no work is done which would increase value, then there should be no US applied import taxes. That’s how it works in the UK anyway, I don’t imagine it would be any different over there as it would just be a waste of money. Surely the fact that they get a quality control check in the US is done in an attempt to increase the perceived value of the instruments, otherwise there would be no point in doing it or publicising that they do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 1 hour ago, BigRedX said: Surely the fact that they get a quality control check in the US is done in an attempt to increase the perceived value of the instruments, otherwise there would be no point in doing it or publicising that they do it. You can shoot me for harbouring such an opinion, but as far as I'm concerned this is more for placating gear racists than acheiving higher quality. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Edge Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 1 hour ago, BigRedX said: Surely the fact that they get a quality control check in the US is done in an attempt to increase the perceived value of the instruments, otherwise there would be no point in doing it or publicising that they do it. They publicise it so they must think it’s worth doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkMohawk Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 I'm with Neepheid on this, it's always smacked of placating people who don't trust that Asia can actually turn out instruments to proper spec, which is something that really only happens when you're too cheap to pay the factories properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH89 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 6 hours ago, BigRedX said: Surely the fact that they get a quality control check in the US is done in an attempt to increase the perceived value of the instruments, otherwise there would be no point in doing it or publicising that they do it. It doesn't work for me . The perceived value is almost zero in my eyes . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 On 04/09/2024 at 11:28, Cliff Edge said: They publicise it so they must think it’s worth publicising. FTFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBass Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 On 04/09/2024 at 11:17, neepheid said: You can shoot me for harbouring such an opinion, but as far as I'm concerned this is more for placating gear racists than acheiving higher quality. I would just like to say there should be no place for gear racism on this forum. I haven't got any white basses, so I'm definitely not a gear racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jd56hawk Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 (edited) Cato said: Pricing aside I'm slightly confused about the thinking behind this. Is there that much demand for a passive Ray? There must be, three different passive Rays this year. As for the huge bridge, no one complains about the massive Ric bridge.🤔 Other than that, I can definitely see myself playing this one. I Edited September 7 by jd56hawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeswals Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 On 20/08/2024 at 06:01, eude said: Sounds to me like they're expecting the UK to help artificially keep the domestic US price down. Very good of them... That would certainly be enough to push me to picking up the Sire Z3 instead, only another £49 and a whole lot better value for money. Thanks bit no thanks "Mr Ball". Mr Ball has nothing to do with these. SBMM are owned, built, inventoried and warrantied by Praxis Musical instruments; they build copy instruments and pay a licensing fee to do so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeswals Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 (edited) [quote]They originally claimed to be built overseas and sent to EBMM for QC and setup.[/quote] They never have. Its not their product. Edited September 10 by mikeswals 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roseweave Posted Tuesday at 22:54 Share Posted Tuesday at 22:54 (edited) On 23/08/2024 at 11:02, neepheid said: Agree to disagree - it's bad enough when "they" simply take the $ and change the symbol to a £ - this is way beyond that (as are the pricing of all SBMM instruments). I have heard it said that the EU uptick is because SBMM insist on having all their instruments made in Indonesia (or wherever) shipped back to USA for QC checks then distribute from there. If that's true, then it's unnecessary double handling which we end up paying for, all probably to placate a few local racists who wouldn't buy an "import" bass unless it's been checked for ebola or something by a fellow countryperson who's automatically better at their quality assurance job than some foreign brown person. Also - 20% import duty is way off the mark, it's about 5%. I forget precisely what it is, but it's definitely a single digit, not 20. This is true from what I've heard. It's really aggravating. Wonder if there's a way to buy direct from the factory. Sounds like they're around the same quality as Harley Benton and J&D anyway. Edited Tuesday at 22:55 by Roseweave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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