la bam Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 1 hour ago, la bam said: It just gets more and more genius. All this hype and news over high ticket prices makes people want them more and creates even more demand. Its mental, and shouldn't work. But it does..... Ticket face value - £150. In demand price - £500. Temporary drop - £300. People will snap up the £300 ones thinking they have a bargain.... erm no, you've paid twice the original price. Not a bargain at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 It'll really hit the fan when additional dates and a world tour are announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 34 minutes ago, TimR said: It's simple supply and demand. Nothing wrong with it. If people can't afford, they won't buy. Same happens with train and airline tickets in the summer. It's up to Oasis to question where this 'extra' money will be going and take then to court if necessary to force reimbursements. But is it? Waiting online for tickets originally advertised at £135 to find they’ve risen to a massive £355 or more by the time they got to the front of the queue can’t be right, even if it’s still technically supply and demand. Imagine seeing a bass advertised for say £500, then going to the shop to find they are now £1200 because a few more people have bought one too. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 4 minutes ago, casapete said: But is it? Waiting online for tickets originally advertised at £135 to find they’ve risen to a massive £355 or more by the time they got to the front of the queue can’t be right, even if it’s still technically supply and demand. Imagine seeing a bass advertised for say £500, then going to the shop to find they are now £1200 because a few more people have bought one too. The scarcity of a product determines the price. Buying a bass there will be competition from other retail outlets. I suppose you could refer the whole thing to monopolies commission (or whatever the regulating body is). Essentially if you can only buy something from one place that's anti competition (although I'm not sure what the UK equivalent is). The algorithm obviously needs tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 4 minutes ago, casapete said: But is it? Waiting online for tickets originally advertised at £135 to find they’ve risen to a massive £355 or more by the time they got to the front of the queue can’t be right, even if it’s still technically supply and demand. Imagine seeing a bass advertised for say £500, then going to the shop to find they are now £1200 because a few more people have bought one too. The scarcity of a product determines the price. Buying a bass there will be competition from other retail outlets. I suppose you could refer the whole thing to monopolies commission (or whatever the regulating body is). Essentially if you can only buy something from one place that's anti competition (although I'm not sure what the UK equivalent is). The algorithm obviously needs tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 47 minutes ago, TimR said: It's simple supply and demand. Nothing wrong with it. If people can't afford, they won't buy. Same happens with train and airline tickets in the summer. It's up to Oasis to question where this 'extra' money will be going and take then to court if necessary to force reimbursements. The trouble is that you could argue that the supply side is being manipulated in the face of high demand, in a way that is not in the customer's interest. The difference with train and airline tickets (you can add hotel rooms as well) is that it is genuinely reflecting changes in demand and is more often than not in the punter's favour. The Government would be quite justified in intervening if they feel that it would be worthwhile. It is a bit unfair to expect Oasis to police all of this dynamic pricing malarky. They can have an influence on what the face value of the ticket should be, but beyond that they will have little control. Look what happened when Pearl Jam tried to take on Ticketmaster many years ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 (edited) Regarding trying to get tkts for bands in this day and age of internet purchasing , I have a great memory of purchasing tkts at the Royal Albert Hall . It was in 2007 . I queued up on a Monday morning for tkts to hopefully see Jean michel jarre l I say queue, it was only about a small gathering of about 20 . Anyway, got into the box office , and the nice lady there was showing me all the seats being booked in real time on her screen . They were selling speedily ,and I did the right thing the old fashioned way by going to the venue . I managed to get tkts 3 rows from the front , I do like the alber hall . As for stadium gigs and outdoor gigs in general forget it ! Been there done that . Lucky to see Rammstein a few times indoors , I was thinking that if they did Twickenham I'd go when they announced a stadium world tour . Thankfully that never happened , and I saw a few of the gigs on that tour on you tube . I am thankful I'm happy with my lot , an not obsessive about bands as I used to be . Plus of course a lot of bands I liked are dying out or dead 💀 Edited September 2 by RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 1 hour ago, TimR said: The scarcity of a product determines the price. No it doesn't! The selling price is determined by the seller, at least in this case (and retail). The seller chooses the price they want to sell at; they may decide that as lots of folks want something they can make a few extra bucks, rather than selling at ticket price until whateveritis is gone... All they have to do in this situation is to invoke the immutable Law Of Supply And Demand (or Profiteers Charter as it's also known) - as everybody knows this is a fundamental law of physics and cannot be broken. However, as the whole of economics runs on this ridiculous nonsense, what can you do? A friend of mine is Head of Global Equities for a big bank and his take is "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em - if I didn't take the money someone else will. But the whole thing is a House Built On Sand!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 4 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said: ... But the whole thing is a House Built On Sand!" Isn't that just where one would expect to find an Oasis..? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 18 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: Isn't that just where one would expect to find an Oasis..? It’s certainly where you would expect to see a mirage … which is fairly apt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 53 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said: No it doesn't! The selling price is determined by the seller, at least in this case (and retail). The seller chooses the price they want to sell at; they may decide that as lots of folks want something they can make a few extra bucks, rather than selling at ticket price until whateveritis is gone... All they have to do in this situation is to invoke the immutable Law Of Supply And Demand (or Profiteers Charter as it's also known) - as everybody knows this is a fundamental law of physics and cannot be broken. However, as the whole of economics runs on this ridiculous nonsense, what can you do? A friend of mine is Head of Global Equities for a big bank and his take is "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em - if I didn't take the money someone else will. But the whole thing is a House Built On Sand!" In this case the scarcity of the product compared to demand determines the price. Elasticity determines how quickly/easily the change in demand/supply affects the price. In this case, High demand, low supply, high elasticity and prices increase very quickly. Look at basschat market place to see how quickly basses sell. The buyer determines the price there. If the seller doesn't drop low enough, there is no sale. The only difference with basschat marketplace is usually the bass player isn't selling basses to make a living and will hang onto their bass for months rather than sell it at a lower price (low elasticy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 7 minutes ago, TimR said: In this case the scarcity of the product compared to demand determines the price. Elasticity determines how quickly/easily the change in demand/supply affects the price. In this case, High demand, low supply, high elasticity and prices increase very quickly. Look at basschat market place to see how quickly basses sell. The buyer determines the price there. If the seller doesn't drop low enough, there is no sale. The only difference with basschat marketplace is usually the bass player isn't selling basses to make a living and will hang onto their bass for months rather than sell it at a lower price (low elasticy) If we were to stick with this model then ticket touts should be both legal and legitimate. They are merely middlemen in the supply and demand chain. They are not legal or legitimate but Ticketmaster are able to become their own touts. It’s a funny old world. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 (edited) It’s computer driven scalping, plain and simple. When people have been hanging online, only to be kicked out due to supposed IT issues, to get back online and find the price massively escalated, is profiteering, plain and simple. Just because it’s legal doesn’t make it moral. Edited September 2 by ezbass 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 6 minutes ago, tegs07 said: If we were to stick with this model then ticket touts should be both legal and legitimate. They are merely middlemen in the supply and demand chain. They are not legal or legitimate but Ticketmaster are able to become their own touts. It’s a funny old world. As I wrote upthread, there is no competition with Ticketmaster (they're effectively a monopoly) so the blame lies with Oasis for not having multiple routes to market. They're artificially controlling the scarcity. In my book that is illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 1 minute ago, ezbass said: It’s computer driven scalping, plain and simple. When people have been hanging online, only to be kicked out due to supposed IT issues, to get back online and find the price massively escalated, is profiteering, plain and simple. Just because it’s not illegal doesn’t make it moral. Fixed..? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 2 minutes ago, ezbass said: It’s computer driven scalping, plain and simple. When people have been hanging online, only to be kicked out due to supposed IT issues, to get back online and find the price massively escalated, is profiteering, plain and simple. Just because it’s not illegal doesn’t make it immoral. What I find bewildering is that people pay the price. As mentioned earlier by @BigRedX the time to see bands (particularly rock and roll, punk,metal etc) is in their prime when they are young and hungry and mean what they say. People paying £300 plus for tickets are likely to be middle aged accountants and other professionals. Nothing wrong with this but it’s hardly rock and roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 9 minutes ago, TimR said: In this case the scarcity of the product compared to demand determines the price. It's not like the price is fundamentally linked to scarcity, like v = f λ, or F = ma! The seller makes a conscious decision (or programmes an algorithm) to decide what to sell at. It's not like they'd be prosecuted for not increasing their prices as things get scarce, nor would the universe gasp as one of its laws Of Nature is broken... Basically, a seller decides to increase their price over and above a reasonable margin in order to make even more money. Now I have no problem with the idea of making a living, but taking the piss is a different matter! Frinstance, in my shop we have a set margin; all prices are determined by this margin (we often round up, and sometimes down, to the nearest 99p or 49p). We don't say " ooh, calatheas are selling like hotcakes, let's double the price!". Our prices only change if the cost goes up (then not always), or if we want to get rid and will put it on sale, sometimes as low as cost or less! However, I've seen some of the products we sell at £10 more in big-chain garden centres - they're definitely taking the piddle as they'll buy at less than us as well. Similarly, we have a few petrol stations locally - there's the usual Texacos, Shells and supermarket ones - they all have prices within a penny of each other. However, there's also a small independent. They're around 15p/l less. They made the decision to sell with a lower margin in order to give a better deal to locals and to sell more. As a result they're always busy and the extra revenue has enabled them to refurbish their previously dilapidated premises while the big player's forecourts are largely empty. So I'd say that strict adherence to the "law" of supply and demand is just a wee bit immoral and most certainly doesn't serve the customer at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 3 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said: It's not like the price is fundamentally linked to scarcity, like v = f λ, or F = ma! The seller makes a conscious decision (or programmes an algorithm) to decide what to sell at. It's not like they'd be prosecuted for not increasing their prices as things get scarce, nor would the universe gasp as one of its laws Of Nature is broken... Basically, a seller decides to increase their price over and above a reasonable margin in order to make even more money. Now I have no problem with the idea of making a living, but taking the piss is a different matter! Frinstance, in my shop we have a set margin; all prices are determined by this margin (we often round up, and sometimes down, to the nearest 99p or 49p). We don't say " ooh, calatheas are selling like hotcakes, let's double the price!". Our prices only change if the cost goes up (then not always), or if we want to get rid and will put it on sale, sometimes as low as cost or less! However, I've seen some of the products we sell at £10 more in big-chain garden centres - they're definitely taking the piddle as they'll buy at less than us as well. Similarly, we have a few petrol stations locally - there's the usual Texacos, Shells and supermarket ones - they all have prices within a penny of each other. However, there's also a small independent. They're around 15p/l less. They made the decision to sell with a lower margin in order to give a better deal to locals and to sell more. As a result they're always busy and the extra revenue has enabled them to refurbish their previously dilapidated premises while the big player's forecourts are largely empty. So I'd say that strict adherence to the "law" of supply and demand is just a wee bit immoral and most certainly doesn't serve the customer at all! Competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 9 minutes ago, TimR said: Competition. price-fixing cartel. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 They're not really concerts, they're events and, as such, draw in vast quantities of people who wouldn't regularly attend music performances not in stadiums. They shouldn't be thought of in the same pricing category as regular concerts. Hence, super high demand and people prepared to pay a premium to be able to make duck-faced poses on their Insta with a band playing in the background, all living their best lives, singing the wrong words to Live Forever with their bezzies, you almost literally can't put a price on it. Anyone truly interested in the songs would have gone to see Liam play them in much smaller venues a few weeks ago. This is for people to check an empty box in their lives which says "I have seen Oasis!" They don't actually care about seeing Oasis, really, they just want to be able to say they have had the experience. I don't begrudge any band/brand exploiting their market worth in these circumstances. Besides, since almost everyone here says they can't stand Oasis, why the kerfuffle? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Thing for me is they have a face value. This to me is like my local garage charging a fiver for the last 5 copies of The Sun/Mirror due to “demand ”. Shouldn’t be permitted, the band set the prices, that’s what they should go for. This a question as I don’t know, re this hideous mark-up, do Oasis or Ticketmaster get it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 3 minutes ago, Doctor J said: Besides, since almost everyone here says they can't stand Oasis, why the kerfuffle? We enjoy the circus and the human psychology of it. I bought my first CD player in 1992 and looked at the Albums that were released between 1992 and 1994 that I had bought. Oasis weren't amongst them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 5 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said: price-fixing cartel. The problem is, they're not essential to everyday life, and a cartel is where a group of producers band together, so it's more of an unregulated monopoly situation, but agree with the sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 5 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said: price-fixing cartel. The problem is, they're not essential to everyday life, and a cartel is where a group of producers band together, so it's more of an unregulated monopoly situation, but agree with the sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Lozz196 said: This a question as I don’t know, re this hideous mark-up, do Oasis or Ticketmaster get it? From what I've read about it the band and their management get most of it, and Ticketmaster get the rest. What would be hilarious is if the venues hosting the shows who presumably agreed a price with the band before hand now demanded double the agreed fee due to 'market forces' and 'unprecedented demand' Edited September 2 by Cato 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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