Burns-bass Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 25 minutes ago, tauzero said: I'm not saying that they shouldn't charge for their services. What I'm saying is that they are in a monopoly position and ratcheting up ticket prices to vast multiples of face value is an abuse of that position. On this we are in 100% agreement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 3 hours ago, MacDaddy said: Because it sets a precedent and business model the rest of the industry will follow? So what? If you don't like the price, don't go. Why shouldn't musicians fully realise their actual value? The music has been rendered pretty much worthless, we expect one revenue stream to be largely nullified and then point the finger of shame if musicians try to make money a different way? 1 hour ago, tauzero said: Because even people who are totally devoid of taste don't always deserve to be ripped off. If the experience is worth it to them, then they haven't been ripped off. It's not worth it to you, not worth it to me either but who's to say how others would value it in the context of their lives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 4 minutes ago, Doctor J said: So what? If you don't like the price, don't go. I being a bit of a libertarian I've decided this is my position, if people are silly enough to pay the price that's their look out, personal responsibility and all that. If the massive demand is caused be touts buying hundreds of tickets by manipulating the online ticketing system hopefully they'll get their fingers burnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Perhaps the way to look at it is that it's allowing musicians to exploit the actual value of the service they provide and, if it does start to proliferate through the industry, fantastic, it might help smaller bands make an actual living out of music instead of squeezing tours into work holidays from the shitty jobs they're having to hold down. Maybe it'll help people become genuinely professional musicians and not live below the poverty line. Maybe it'll mean people aren't asked to play for exposure because musicians are respected and taken seriously for their art and maybe, just maybe, it'll eventually mean your band gets a decent payout for the travel, time and energy behind playing two sets down the Goat and Lobster? I don't understand the thinking behind how musicians getting paid well could be a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Just now, Doctor J said: Perhaps the way to look at it is that it's allowing musicians to exploit the actual value of the service they provide and, if it does start to proliferate through the industry, fantastic, it might help smaller bands make an actual living out of music instead of squeezing tours into work holidays from the shitty jobs they're having to hold down. Maybe it'll help people become genuinely professional musicians and not live below the poverty line. Maybe it'll mean people aren't asked to play for exposure because musicians are respected and taken seriously for their art and maybe, just maybe, it'll eventually mean your band gets a decent payout for the travel, time and energy behind playing two sets down the Goat and Lobster? I don't understand the thinking behind how musicians getting paid well could be a bad thing. I can see your logic. After all, Jeff Bezos is one of the richest men on Earth so Amazon staff get paid a fortune. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Not the same thing at all and we both know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 1 hour ago, Burns-bass said: I’m sure that’s true of a vanishingly small number of people but they’re shifted over 1 million tickets… For a lot of people they’ve bought into the hype and it’ll be a long way down. 1 million tickets doesn't equate to 1 million individuals purchasing tickets. Besides the number of tickets sold at £150 must be pretty high. I saw 4 freinds posts on Facebook shortly after tickets went on sale. Presuambly they bought tickets before it all went mad. I wonder how much of this has been overblown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 52 minutes ago, Doctor J said: So what? If you don't like the price, don't go. Why shouldn't musicians fully realise their actual value? The music has been rendered pretty much worthless, we expect one revenue stream to be largely nullified and then point the finger of shame if musicians try to make money a different way? If the experience is worth it to them, then they haven't been ripped off. It's not worth it to you, not worth it to me either but who's to say how others would value it in the context of their lives? I think that you might be missing the point. I have no objection at all to the tickets having a face value of £150 / £300 or whatever - people have the choice to decide whether it is worth that to them or not and if they can afford it. However, I do have a problem of people hanging on a website for several hours in order to buy a ticket at the advertised price only to find that they are now being asked to pay three times that amount or more. It is not as if they can invoice someone for the time that they have wasted trying to buy a ticket. The whole process is designed to put undue pressure on punters o pay more than they intended to. 46 minutes ago, Doctor J said: Perhaps the way to look at it is that it's allowing musicians to exploit the actual value of the service they provide and, if it does start to proliferate through the industry, fantastic, it might help smaller bands make an actual living out of music instead of squeezing tours into work holidays from the shitty jobs they're having to hold down. Maybe it'll help people become genuinely professional musicians and not live below the poverty line. Maybe it'll mean people aren't asked to play for exposure because musicians are respected and taken seriously for their art and maybe, just maybe, it'll eventually mean your band gets a decent payout for the travel, time and energy behind playing two sets down the Goat and Lobster? I don't understand the thinking behind how musicians getting paid well could be a bad thing. How much bands get paid is down to the demand for their services. The demand for this tour is down to a certain set of circumstances, a massively loved band that, for many people, were representative of their youth / a better period. This isn't the same scenario for lower profile pro musicians, who are gigging in venues struggling to break even. The only way that it will benefit smaller bands are if the enthusiasm for Oasis playing out again somehow creates an interest for punters to go out and watch bands again, rather than the packaged solo or R&B acts currently dominating the music industry. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 1 minute ago, peteb said: I think that you might be missing the point. I have no objection at all to the tickets having a face value of £150 / £300 or whatever - people have the choice to decide whether it is worth that to them or not and if they can afford it. However, I do have a problem of people hanging on a website for several hours in order to buy a ticket at the advertised price only to find that they are now being asked to pay three times that amount or more. It is not as if they can invoice someone for the time that they have wasted trying to buy a ticket. The whole process is designed to put undue pressure on punters o pay more than they intended to. How much bands get paid is down to the demand for their services. The demand for this tour is down to a certain set of circumstances, a massively loved band that, for many people, were representative of their youth / a better period. This isn't the same scenario for lower profile pro musicians, who are gigging in venues struggling to break even. The only way that it will benefit smaller bands are if the enthusiasm for Oasis playing out again somehow creates an interest for punters to go out and watch bands again, rather than the packaged solo or R&B acts currently dominating the music industry. Tickets were advertised at "Prices from...", no? There's no deception there. It's like booking a flight or a hotel. It's not even new in music ticketing, I recall those Ozzy gigs they advertised in 2019 which never took place were also "Prices from". People will get used to it quickly enough and cut their cloth accordingly. As Paul says, personal responsibility and all that. Widen your scope a bit, you say bands and venues are struggling to break even, so would you not say something needs to change? Perhaps this is it. Perhaps people who are priced out of the "major event" gigs like this see the value of smaller level gigs and might invest into lower profile music instead. Maybe it won't happen but is it healthy for things to stay as they are? Revenue streams have been cut-off for bands. If this is a potential way for bands to get money and not have resort to being vendors of branded tat, then I'm all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 54 minutes ago, TimR said: 1 million tickets doesn't equate to 1 million individuals purchasing tickets. Besides the number of tickets sold at £150 must be pretty high. I saw 4 freinds posts on Facebook shortly after tickets went on sale. Presuambly they bought tickets before it all went mad. I wonder how much of this has been overblown. I’m sure what you mean. Most people would spend £150 on tickets without some agreement they’d be reimbursed. In my own friend group there were several people trying to get tickets with the agreement they’d be paid back. My point is that people are very, very flakey. It’s hard enough getting 5 middle aged men into a rehearsal studio for a pre-booked 2 hours session. The amount of tickets put up for sale over the next 10 months will be incredible. I’m going to state again I’m confident that if you want tickets, you’ll be able to get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 4 minutes ago, Doctor J said: Tickets were advertised at "Prices from...", no? There's no deception there. It's like booking a flight or a hotel. It's not even new in music ticketing, I recall those Ozzy gigs they advertised in 2019 which never took place were also "Prices from". People will get used to it quickly enough and cut their cloth accordingly. As Paul says, personal responsibility and all that. I'm not saying that it is new, but it a way of influencing a market and it is inherently dodgy, to the extent that the government is now looking at ways that it can be regulated. 5 minutes ago, Doctor J said: Widen your scope a bit, you say bands and venues are struggling to break even, so would you not say something needs to change? Perhaps this is it. Perhaps people who are priced out of the "major event" gigs like this see the value of smaller level gigs and might invest into lower profile music instead. Maybe it won't happen but is it healthy for things to stay as they are? Revenue streams have been cut-off for bands. If this is a potential way for bands to get money and not have resort to being vendors of branded tat, then I'm all for it. No, it won't happen. There are two two things that will improve the lot of artists playing smaller level gigs: 1) an improvement in the economy that translate to an increase in disposable income for working people, so that they can afford to go out regularly to support live music and still be able to pay the mortgage; and 2) a restructure of the music industry that encourages labels, etc to invest in and develop bands rather than disposable solo artists who are less work to promote and cheaper in A&R / tour support costs, etc. Perhaps if the Oasis tour is such a huge success that stimulates a demand / leads to the media talking about 'are bands coming back' or whatever for a prolonged period, then who knows but I'm not betting on it happening! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassybert Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 6 minutes ago, Doctor J said: I don't understand the thinking behind how musicians getting paid well could be a bad thing. This whole issue isn't about musicians being paid well, it's the fact a fair few of them AND the ticket companies are in cahoots to fleece the fans for all they can. It's morally corrupt, end of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 I can't see them restricting dynamic pricing. They would have to do it across all industries. Unlikely. If it was the EU putting a cap on exploiting your commercial appeal, there would be outrage 🤣 Ticketmaster/LiveNation monopoly, yes, that needs to die in a fire. The internet has afforded every band the facilities to do away with "the industry" to a large extent. It has also facilitated the realtive worthlessness of recorded music. Why would you want to put power back into the hands of the industry which served so many so poorly? Dynamic pricing affords bands and musicians the abillty to get the most out of their appeal with only tangental reliance on the old ways. There is a minimum ticket price, just like there is now but if some grown-ups are happy to pay more, why would you not take the money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted September 2 Author Share Posted September 2 2 hours ago, Doctor J said: Perhaps the way to look at it is that it's allowing musicians to exploit the actual value of the service they provide and, if it does start to proliferate through the industry, fantastic, it might help smaller bands make an actual living out of music instead of squeezing tours into work holidays from the shitty jobs they're having to hold down. Maybe it'll help people become genuinely professional musicians and not live below the poverty line. Maybe it'll mean people aren't asked to play for exposure because musicians are respected and taken seriously for their art and maybe, just maybe, it'll eventually mean your band gets a decent payout for the travel, time and energy behind playing two sets down the Goat and Lobster? I don't understand the thinking behind how musicians getting paid well could be a bad thing. The wealth will trickle down? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Let's find out! 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Interestingly(?), for the last three hours or so, we've been listening to a combination of the deluxe version and the 30th Anniversary editions of Definitely, Maybe. All in all, about 70 tracks. This is the first listen in 20/25 years, but obviously some of the material is burnt into my psyche. It's odd, there's posts just about everywhere effectively deriding the band as talentless oiks with a whining vocalist; that's as maybe, but honestly the album (and bonus stuff) is pretty rocking...ok sure, inevitably there's tracks that don't work for me, but it's much better than I remember it at the time. There's so many hooks going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted September 2 Author Share Posted September 2 Seems legit... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 1 hour ago, MacDaddy said: The wealth will trickle down? Yes, just like all those Sunday league players being drip-fed by the Premier League 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 (edited) 3 hours ago, peteb said: The whole process is designed to put undue pressure on punters o pay more than they intended to. I think this is an offshoot of the Sunk Cost Falacy. Where, the more time you have spent on something, the more likely it is you will spend more time (and money) to get to the end result. Even to disproportionate amounts* compared to the outcome. The marketing psychologists employed by these big companies know their stuff. *a bit like arguing on basschat. Edited September 2 by TimR 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 15 minutes ago, TimR said: I think this is an offshoot of the Sunk Cost Falacy. Where, the more time you have spent on something, the more likely it is you will spend more time (and money) to get to the end result. Even to disproportionate amounts* compared to the outcome. The marketing psychologists employed by these big companies know their stuff. *a bit like arguing on basschat. Yes, absolutely! Whether this legitimate is another thing and the inevitable kerfuffle about Oasis tickets and the press attention this has achieved has been the trigger for government to look at whether this should be regulated. I would note that there was no dynamic pricing in place when I bought Mr Big / Living Colour tickets a few months ago, where you could still have got in on the night. As I said in an earlier post, dynamic pricing can work in the customer's favour on flights, holidays, etc where there are lots of choices and you could weigh up whether it is worth it to get a later flight or go a day earlier, etc to save a few quid. This isn't the case with the Oasis tickets, where supply is limited and only Ticketmaster has all of the information. There isn't any real choice for the punter other than to not buy the tickets at the inflated price, having built up the excitement and then wasted the whole day in a virtual queue! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misdee Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 (edited) The fact that Oasis and their music are epochal for the mid 1990's speaks volumes about how abject a time that was. They were the pop group Britain deserved, but not in a good way. To me, it's exasperating the way Oasis's reunion is being feted by the media as if they are a national treasure to be universally celebrated. Yesterday Oasis tickets was lead item on the BBC1 Six O'clock news. No doubt Noel will see all this as definite confirmation of his own omniscience. Edited September 3 by Misdee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 Blame pub bands. If they hadn't been pumping out the Oasis bangers all these years everyone would have forgotten all about Oasis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickeyboro Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 3 hours ago, Downunderwonder said: Blame pub bands. If they hadn't been pumping out the Oasis bangers all these years everyone would have forgotten all about Oasis. They were basically three chords and an attitude. In that respect, they now have to prove themselves superior to those pub bands. On the other hand, they have got their hands on the money so it doesn’t matter… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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