Leonard Smalls Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 12 hours ago, peteb said: There are two two things that will improve the lot of artists playing smaller level gigs: And another... More media exposure for smaller artists! When I were nobbut a lad there was all sorts of music on telly; kids TV would have Motorhead or The Jam playing, Top of the Pops could have absolutely anyone on (apart from the Sex Pistols). There was Rock Goes to College, Old Grey Whistle Test, The Tube and loads of other stuff. It was all there and easy to find. Now you have to actively search - which admittedly isn't difficult, but I suspect that as a result more young-uns are playing video games or binge watching who-knows-what instead of going to gigs. I know that my nieces and nephews never go to gigs in their hometown but will trek to That London to watch a Big Artiste. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 9 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said: And another... More media exposure for smaller artists! When I were nobbut a lad there was all sorts of music on telly; kids TV would have Motorhead or The Jam playing, Top of the Pops could have absolutely anyone on (apart from the Sex Pistols). There was Rock Goes to College, Old Grey Whistle Test, The Tube and loads of other stuff. It was all there and easy to find. Now you have to actively search - which admittedly isn't difficult, but I suspect that as a result more young-uns are playing video games or binge watching who-knows-what instead of going to gigs. I know that my nieces and nephews never go to gigs in their hometown but will trek to That London to watch a Big Artiste. I think it has always been that way. When I was at university very few of the non-musicians I knew went to gigs and if they did it was for well-known bands at Rock City. They wouldn't even go to gigs on campus, which were relatively inexpensive to get it, unless it was someone they'd heard of with a least a couple of hit singles, so I was the only person from my course who went to see John Cooper Clark, The Teardrop Explodes, The Thompson Twins and Danse Society amongst others. As musicians we always over-estimate the importance of music to the lives of non-musicians. For most people music is something to fill in the silence when the TV isn't on, or BGM for getting laid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 2 minutes ago, BigRedX said: I think it has always been that way Probably! But I'd still like to see more music on't telly - at the moment it's only Jools plus a bit of Reading and Glasto! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 7 hours ago, Misdee said: The fact that Oasis and their music are epochal for the mid 1990's speaks volumes about how abject a time that was. They were the pop group Britain deserved, but not in a good way. To me, it's exasperating the way Oasis's reunion is being feted by the media as if they are a national treasure to be universally celebrated. Yesterday Oasis tickets was lead item on the BBC1 Six O'clock news. No doubt Noel will see all this as definite confirmation of his own omniscience. I often think that, for me, the mid to late ‘90s is where music went to die in the UK. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 5 minutes ago, BigRedX said: The Teardrop Explodes, Funnily enough I saw them in their very early days supported by Echo and the Bunnymen at Chester arts centre for 50p to get in. And me, Swamp and Sgav were the only ones from our school who went! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 The irony of it is that thousands of people who've paid through the nose for tickets will doubtless spend the whole gig filming it on their phones so that they can watch it on Youtube later. Mugs. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misdee Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 And regarding the ticket prices, it's all a bit of a red herring as far as I am concerned. If people are daft enough to pay inflated prices then they have only really got themselves to blame. No one needs to buy an Oasis ticket. ( I would love it if no one did, leaving Noel frantically searching for Plan B to pay for his divorce.) In a truly free society people can ask whatever they like for commercial goods and services and the consumer is at liberty to accept or reject that price. Just because someone asks £6000 for an Oasis ticket doesn't mean someone has to actually pay it. (But yes, left to their own devices some dimwit probably would.) True to form, the new government are intent on saving people from themselves. I can put my used underpants on eBay for six grand, it doesn't necessarily warrant a government enquiry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Misdee said: And regarding the ticket prices, it's all a bit of a red herring as far as I am concerned. If people are daft enough to pay inflated prices then they have only really got themselves to blame. No one needs to buy an Oasis ticket. ( I would love it if no one did, leaving Noel frantically searching for Plan B to pay for his divorce.) In a truly free society people can ask whatever they like for commercial goods and services and the consumer is at liberty to accept or reject that price. Just because someone asks £6000 for an Oasis ticket doesn't mean someone has to actually pay it. (But yes, left to their own devices some dimwit probably would.) True to form, the new government are intent on saving people from themselves. I can put my used underpants on eBay for six grand, it doesn't necessarily warrant a government enquiry. I think it’s the way that it’s done that is the issue rather than the price. An analogy would be queuing up to buy a coffee. The board shows the price so you stand in line. Occasionally the coffee machine breaks down or some official takes you to the back of the line without an explanation. Eventually after much patience you reach the front expecting to pay £3 only to be told that it’s now £10 because of the ‘demand’ This is not a reasonable business model. If the coffee chain has a monopoly and they are using this model then questions should be raised. Edited September 3 by tegs07 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 13 minutes ago, tegs07 said: I think it’s the way that it’s done that is the issue rather than the price. An analogy would be queuing up to buy a coffee. The board shows the price so you stand in line. Occasionally the coffee machine breaks down or some official takes you to the back of the line without an explanation. Eventually after much patience you reach the front expecting to pay £3 only to be told that it’s now £10 because of the ‘demand’ This is not a reasonable business model. If the coffee chain has a monopoly and they are using this model then questions should be raised. This is exactly it. The system is designed to pressure you into making a decision. Imagine the situation. You've accepted you'll pay £150 for a ticket and spend anything from 4-6 hours waiting for your chance. When you get in, your heart rate is up and you see the tickets. But they're more expensive. There's a count down timer which will boot you out if you don't buy. The rational part of your brain is saying no, but you want the hit of the purchase and you can afford it (just). So you dig out your credit card, get the hit and then the long and precipitous drop happens. A lot of people can't figure out why they did something so stupid, they just did. Ticketmaster knows exactly what it's doing and the ways to encourage people to spend recklessly... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 10 minutes ago, Burns-bass said: Ticketmaster knows exactly what it's doing and the ways to encourage people to spend recklessly... and have a monopoly. at this stage investigation by regulators is warranted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misdee Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 (edited) I take both points entirely, but Ticketmaster are in business to make a profit. They will do whatever they can get away with. But once you start limiting what they are allowed to do you are on a slippery slope towards an unfair restraint of trade. Ultimately, the most effective leverage is for customers to reject the vendor. Unfortunately, the practical reality is that won't happen. I remember when a ticket to a gig was about the same price as an album, festivals and stadium gigs a bit more. That was and still is about what most bands are worth in my estimation. Prices have gotten progressively more crazy and the public have endorsed that escalation by buying tickets. Until people stop buying the tickets prices won't significantly decrease. Edited September 3 by Misdee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 I can't imagine Oasis will be very exciting show. Other than 4 blokes standing fairly still on a massive stage. Certainly don't see the brothers abseiling onto the stage. However a lot of shows far exceed that and are worth the money for the spectacle. To me the issue is the abuse of the monopoly on ticket sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 19 hours ago, borntohang said: There are enough people for whom £500 is pocket money that they'll sell at that price. They'll sell at £5K too if I'm honest, because there is a stupendous amount of money out there and the people that have it don't worry about small change like that. It'll get bought by some corporate group who want to give their high-fliers a Christmas bonus and then write it off against expenses. The corporate suites will be going for decent five figures a night I imagine. It's time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misdee Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 4 minutes ago, Crusoe said: It's time... More likely that we are nearing the time when only the rich can eat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 16 minutes ago, Misdee said: Ticketmaster are in business to make a profit. They will do whatever they can get away with. But once you start limiting what they are allowed to do you are on a slippery slope towards an unfair restraint of trade. Why would it be an 'unfair restraint of trade'? If companies are manipulating the market or utilising unfair business practices to disadvantage the customer, then surely they should be regulated. Part of the many issues we have in this country is that government has been reluctant to regulate when it should, which partly has led to a lower standard of living for ordinary citizens while giving inflated dividends to shareholders (look at the water companies and the water / sewage issues we are currently having). This doesn't happen in most other countries in Europe (or at least to nowhere near the same extent) to the advantage to the lives of normal people. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumOne Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 2 hours ago, ezbass said: I often think that, for me, the mid to late ‘90s is where music went to die in the UK. Each to their own, but I reckon that was a golden age (possibly as those were my late teenage years). Robson & Jerome, Vanilla Ice, Boyzone, Menswear, Aqua, Hanson. It had it all! Seriously, though, the best 90s UK music was Electronic stuff: Orbital, Underworld, Chemical Brothers, Leftfield, Aphex Twin, The Prodigy, Boards of Canada, all the Jungle/DnB stuff and UK Garage. Like it or not, it was genuinely world leading, innovative, original sounding stuff. Whereas Britpop was always a bit of lame nostalgic/throwback radio-friendly/Saturday morning kids TV sort of stuff. And there was the really pop sort of stuff like boybands for the 13 year old girls, which in hindsight was perhaps quite good to have that quite clear boundary, nowadays pop is a bland mush to try to appeal to as many people as possible. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 For me the early 90s were poor until Britpop came along. I just curse my own stupidity for making a pint glass my priority instead of going to see those exciting bands of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 8 minutes ago, SumOne said: Orbital, Underworld, Chemical Brothers, Leftfield, Aphex Twin, The Prodigy, Boards of Canada i will concede to all this as well as Massive Attack, Portishead et al 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 3 hours ago, ezbass said: I often think that, for me, the mid to late ‘90s is where music went to die in the UK. I don't agree. For me, music of that period was part of a climate when the economy was booming, ordinary people had money in their pocket and grass root small music venues / pubs were packed. It was also the last time that you genuine rock and roll bands in the charts (as well as the new electronic stuff) that reflected the genuine optimism of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 33 minutes ago, SumOne said: Each to their own, but I reckon that was a golden age (possibly as those were my late teenage years). I think this has a lot to do with it, although my fave decade was the '80s and my teens were behind me. 11 minutes ago, peteb said: I don't agree. For me, My post also had for me too. It's art and, as always, YMMV. The whole Britpop thing left me cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted September 3 Author Share Posted September 3 3 hours ago, Misdee said: I can put my used underpants on eBay for six grand, it doesn't necessarily warrant a government enquiry. Try it, let's see if they stand up in court 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 1 hour ago, ezbass said: I think this has a lot to do with it, although my fave decade was the '80s and my teens were behind me. My post also had for me too. It's art and, as always, YMMV. The whole Britpop thing left me cold. I'm not too bothered about whether you're a fan or not, more about the context and the reaction that some people have to Oasis and certain other bands. A lot of my friends love Rush, but I don't like their music at all. However, I don't hate them! I'm a 60 yo Van Halen / Led Zep fan who plays in classic rock tributes and a few blues type bands. I am not your typical Oasis fan at all and my favourite music tends to come from the late 70s / early 80s rather than Britpop. However, I can appreciate that they were one of the last big rock and roll bands, that they made it all happen coming from a council estate in Manchester rather than some stage school or being a public schoolboy whose Dad knew someone who worked for a record company, and that they had some genuinely great tunes that really caught the public's imagination! They also came from a time when the country was in a far better state, so there is the inevitable nostalgia thing kicking in! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 3 hours ago, Misdee said: I take both points entirely, but Ticketmaster are in business to make a profit. They will do whatever they can get away with. But once you start limiting what they are allowed to do you are on a slippery slope towards an unfair restraint of trade. Ultimately, the most effective leverage is for customers to reject the vendor. Unfortunately, the practical reality is that won't happen. I remember when a ticket to a gig was about the same price as an album, festivals and stadium gigs a bit more. That was and still is about what most bands are worth in my estimation. Prices have gotten progressively more crazy and the public have endorsed that escalation by buying tickets. Until people stop buying the tickets prices won't significantly decrease. In some ways it’s quite positive that people are willing to pay such a large amount for tickets. Given streaming pays nearly nothing (unless you’re a superstar) I guess live dates are where they make 90% of their cash. In this instance, nobody is upset that they’re charging a fortune (as I said, my friend group checked out when it became clear the event would cost the same as a cheap foreign holiday). Instead, it’s the way that surge pricing was introduced. This wasn’t part of the deal and it seems really cruel. If you want to see what happens when bands get it wrong take a look at the Black Keys US arena tour… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Burns-bass said: In some ways it’s quite positive that people are willing to pay such a large amount for tickets. Given streaming pays nearly nothing (unless you’re a superstar) I guess live dates are where they make 90% of their cash. In this instance, nobody is upset that they’re charging a fortune (as I said, my friend group checked out when it became clear the event would cost the same as a cheap foreign holiday). Instead, it’s the way that surge pricing was introduced. This wasn’t part of the deal and it seems really cruel. If you want to see what happens when bands get it wrong take a look at the Black Keys US arena tour… Absolutely. Plus if they have the technology to implement surge pricing then that same technology should keep the customers informed of the changing prices in real time. Let’s see what the real demand is if those waiting 4 hours know that they are going to be charged £350+ Edited September 3 by tegs07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meterman Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 34 minutes ago, peteb said: I am not your typical Oasis fan at all and my favourite music tends to come from the late 70s / early 80s rather than Britpop. However, I can appreciate that they were one of the last big rock and roll bands, that they made it all happen coming from a council estate in Manchester rather than some stage school or being a public schoolboy whose Dad knew someone who worked for a record company Don't forget the massive industry PR machine behind them, ensuring that they wouldn't / couldn't fail. (Arctic Monkeys had a similar push) I remember seeing Oasis at the 100 Club about a month before their debut single was released and the audience (not packed to capacity by any means) was largely made up of label folks and industry figures. Also, there was a 'street team' walking up and down Oxford Street giving out free tickets to the gig. I only saw them because I'd being doing session work with the band they were touring with, and I can honestly say Oasis were one of the dullest gigs I've ever seen. Zero stage charisma. Bunch of blokes stood rooted to the spot churning out their resolutely stodgy T Rex and Slade riffs at 25mph. There were people in the crowd shouting out the song lifts ("Get It On", "Cum On Feel The Noize", "Holidays In The Sun", "The New Seekers" 😂) Absolute mystery to me how their songwriting still gets praised over the likes of Teenage Fanclub, or Supergrass, etc. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.