Do you struggle to get certain sounds?

[Stub Mandrel]

I do!

 

Perhaps because my 'signature' sound is fairly dark and basically almost flat eq with slight bass and treble lift, I find it hard to get that rich, clanky but deep funk sound.

 

Yesterday I tried out a wah pedal (rapidly realised that once I'd done NIB there isn't much left...) Amp was z small Vox combo and I got 'that' sound, once I had figured out that I could get the active bass flat by setting all the controls to the middle detent.

 

Didn't think to look at the amp settings.

 

Accidentally bought the bass but can't get the same sound though Joyo BadASS and PJB C2. A bit closer thyough my brother's Elf and Ampeg PF 1x15.

 

How do YOU brew different sounds and what do you struggle with.

 

Have you ever found a reliable guide to getting various sounds/tones?

 

[Franticsmurf]

Yes. For a while now I've been after that growly, clanky Chris Squire sound but without using a 4001 or stereo wiring set up. For the current band I need to be able to switch between it and several other sounds as our set varies considerably through the night. The best I've been able to come up with is a patch on the Zoom B6 with a mildy overdriven SVT amp sim. It doesn't help that I like to cycle through a few basses during the year. I made the effort and stuck with my P Bass to get the sound on the B6 and I was happy with the result during the first half of the year. But now I'm having to use a couple of the headless basses (EHB1000s and The Jack) as the upcoming gigs are on small stages and we're a 13 piece band. So it's almost back to the drawing board. But I quite enjoy the process of building new sounds.

 

My workflow (using the B6 as the source but it's similar if I'm using pedals) is to roughly identify what I need (I have a list of all the songs the band is likely to play in the year, which is currently approaching three figures). This is usually as simple as 'Clean', 'Chorus' or 'Drive' for the majority of songs. If there are any special sounds required, I'll highlight those too. I'll start off with a basic clean sound (usually a clean SVT), a basic driven sound (SVT with the gain up enough just to add a bit of grit) and a lighter (=slightly less bassy) clean sound. I think that those three staples would work for 75% of the stuff we do. The beauty of the B6 is that I can add 'pedals' to the patch to switch on and off which means that if I need a flange effect (e.g. 'Dakota'), it's simply a case of stomping on a switch in the SVT Driven patch. So for each patch I'll have a few pedals that i think I'm going to need. All of this is roughed out at home, including balancing patch levels, at low volume or on headphones. 

 

At rehearsals (we try to rehearse once a week) I can start to refine the sounds at gig volume. Our sound guy is good at telling it like it is and so I can tweak the sounds on the fly. It usually only takes a couple of rehearsals to get the sounds working with the rest of the band and this usually only requires minor tweaks. The longer I work with the B6, the more I am able to judge in advance what will sound good in the live environment. I try and keep things as simple as possible for me, so unused stomp pedals are disabled or removed. If I'm using physical pedals, the board starts off large and almost always ends up with only two or three pedals by the time the gig season arrives. 

 

I think it helps that the signal chain is consistent - with The Hulla I DI into our own PA and the sound guy comes with the band.   

 

With a previous band I was able to get close to the Squire sound with my Sterling HH set to coil split through a Marshall JMP1 valve pre-amp into the power amp stage and speakers of a Laney RB7, and later DI'd into the PA. The band played mostly songs that this sound suited so there was little variation needed, and I could get any clean sounds using a different patch on the JMP 1 (for those not familiar with it, the JMP 1 is a midi enabled valve pre-amp with programmable patches).  

 

10 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Accidentally bought the bass

Yes, I've done that before now. Got home, checked my pockets and there's a bass that's somehow slipped in. 😀

[fretmeister]

I used to and I think some of the problem was using my eyes to set the EQ etc. I had preconceived ideas of what the EQ should be for a certain sound.

 

Then I saw a guy on youtube who purposely turns away from the controls and tweaks it all without looking, forcing him to only use his ears and nothing else. I've been doing that ever since and it has really helped.

[scalpy]

Yes when it comes to effects. I love my basic sound, G&L ASAT and Markbass set up, got a good octave sound too, but drive and filters I can’t quite dial in. I’ve got a Stomp now and am edging closer but home experimentation and in context with band are two very separate things. 

[Agent 00Soul]

I have a pedal board with around 10 stomp boxes.  So when I am starting with a new project, it can take a while to dial everything in.  And it can't really be done at home at practice volume only in rehearsal at gig level.  I take pictures with my phone to remember the settings once they are dialed in.  After a while, I get used to everything and it becomes default.  It also means things can be tweaked on the fly in recording sessions quickly.  (It's been a long time since I've played in a non-effects heavy band so I kind of forgot how to do the plug and play thing for better or worse.)

[Stub Mandrel]

3 hours ago, Agent 00Soul said:

And it can't really be done at home at practice volume only in rehearsal at gig level

 

When I get  a breathing space I'm going to book a few solo hours at a rehearsal studio.

[meterman]

For years I struggled with trying to get the bass sound on the "Histoire De Melody Nelson" album by Serge Gainsbourg. 
 

 

Before the internet and what was subsequently revealed in interviews I tried all kinds of different basses, different strings, different amps, but never quite got there. I could play the notes but the sound wasn't really there.

 

Then two things happened. One, I saw the bass player in question, Dave Richmond, playing his dust covered Burns Bison with black nylon strings (which he reckoned to have never changed) through an Ampeg at the Jazz Cafe.

 

And two, I realised there and then that you can get close, but unless you actually are Dave Richmond (with his flared slacks and scruffy slip-ons) and are playing the exact bass used on the record, it's a futile quest.

 

I never bought an original Burns Bison but I did stay with flats and foam at the bridge though. That's a forever move for me. No pedals, just amp and bass 👍 

[super al]

I often think I'm must be an awful bass player as I don't think about the sound much. I'm mostly playing a Lakland 55-02 through a TC Electronic BH550 amp with 2 x one10s. I was in a soul band for 3 years so I played with just the bridge pickup and Mark King's Sweet Minger toneprint on one channel and I can't remember the other one but I rarely remembered to switch anyway. The closer I played fingerstyle to the bridge the better I sounded for the funkier tunes. The other bassist who was in the soul band before me and subsequently returned to bass duties after me tends to overplay I think, the singer always says there's more breathing space in the songs when I play (I keep my notes short and funky).

After the soul band I joined a heavy metal band playing originals. This has been a tough lesson in finding my place in the band, the guitars tend to play low so sometimes I'm lost in the mix. I've managed to cut through by rolling off the bass on the amp and go more trebly. The lead guitarist is also the band's 'sound engineer' so he's been a great help. 

I guess I just don't want the faff of a load of pedals, etc. I remember supporting Toupe (local Southampton band with 2 x bass and a drummer) and watching them set up, it looked like one of them had a scaffold plank full of pedals... I thought "eff that for a game of soldiers, how does he find the time!".

It's probably why I've only ever had one person ask me after a gig about my gear in 30 odd years of playing (it might be more, I just can't remember 😄)

 

[Merton]

I always struggle with fuzz sounds. Whatever I do they seem to become overwhelming and crush everything at 20 paces, rather than being a nice fuzzy warmth often found on the record. I expect it’s got a lot to do with compression in reality, and compression I am not good at, at all 😅

Edited September 2 by Merton

[Dan Dare]

13 hours ago, meterman said:

And two, I realised there and then that you can get close, but unless you actually are Dave Richmond (with his flared slacks and scruffy slip-ons) and are playing the exact bass used on the record, it's a futile quest.

 

This and it applies to any player, not just Dave Richmond. It isn't just down to the instrument, either. The sound you hear on records is produced in a studio, where there is access to a pile of eq options, outboard/mastering gear, etc, etc and where the acoustic environment can be tailored to suit whatever you are trying to achieve.

 

You can also run your rig at any volume you like in a studio and route the sound via cans to the other musicians if the band is playing together. If individual members are tracking their parts, you don't even need to do that. Just play in the control room and listen via the monitors.

 

It's one thing to dial up the ideal sound at low volumes, when your rig only has to make enough noise for a microphone a few inches from the cone to pick it up and is working well within itself. It's a different matter when you are trying to recreate that sound live, in a less than ideal acoustic space at high volumes.

 

Often, the bass will have been DI'd. People spend a fortune on old Ampeg B15s to try to get the "Jamerson sound" because "that's what he used in the studio". He did, but the amp wasn't mic'd. It was only used so the rest of the musicians could hear the bass. His recorded sound was DI'd via a custom preamp/direct box.

 

As meterman says, it's futile.

[Jo.gwillim]

You all seen so sussed. One week I can rehearse and everything seems perfect.  Next week,  same gear, same room same band it sounds awful. Gigging we use a quite a range of sound people,  often what they do with my DI'd output means FOH sound is a mile off what I expecting. This seems to have a much bigger effect than all my eq fiddling. Good game!

[Delberthot]

I chased certain sounds for years - one prime example was that I bought 2 basses around the same time - A Modulus Flea and a Warwick Thumb NT5.

 

The Flea bass sounded terrible and nothing like Flea. I picked up the Thumb and it sounded like Flea! Rickenbackers always sounded dull and bland and nothing like Chris Squire or Geddy Lee. Precisions in my hands were clickety clackety and nothing like John Deacon.

 

I gave up trying to achieve particular sounds and just concentrate on being me and I am much happier for it.

[MichaelDean]

I used to struggle to get the sounds I wanted. More experience of what hasn't worked seemed to be the key for me. My MarkBass CMD102P was a great combo, but a bit too pristine for the sound I wanted at the time. The Ampeg PF-500 and 210 cab worked better for me. My ABM-600  got me more where I wanted to be. I think I've refined that further with the Digbeth 500 I just bought. 

 

I find watching YouTube gear reviews/demos really useful. If you watch a few to get a general sense of the tones available, I find that helps me get a tonal ballpark for that bit of gear. Also mixing demonstrations have been useful to get a handle on what EQ changes to make for certain sounds and a starting point for compression tips. 

 

Experimentation has been key too. Just twist those knobs all the way and see what happens. I don't want to leave an EQ flat because that's what someone else on the internet does.

[casapete]

In my last band ( playing mainly theatres) I hardly ever needed to touch my amp’s

settings from gig to gig. GK1001RB into a GK Neo 410 cab sounded pretty much

how I wanted it to sound with no faffing. I think it’s a luxury to be able to have your

bass sound in the PA though - this means you don’t have to compromise on your

onstage eq to suit the room / band / audience! 
I’ve recently found a new solution though - it’s the ‘Vintage’ button on my Fender

Rumble 500. Once engaged it makes my bass sound exactly how I like it, job done. 

It’s not usually through the PA, but does fit the 3 piece blues band I’m currently 

playing with really well. 
 

For years I’ve worked with musicians who disappear down various rabbit holes 

looking for ‘their’ sound, and it has to be said it’s been mainly guitarists! That’s 

not to say I haven’t been interested in changing my set up, but never got into

pedals apart from a Sansamp used for DI duties. For me it’s just finding that

magic combination of bass and amplifier and enjoying it. 

[Dad3353]

I don't remember seeing drummers, at 'live' gigs, re-tuning their drums for different songs, still less swapping out snares or toms, to recreate the authentic sounds of the original work being covered, or even their own work as an 'originals' band, in concert. Occasionally (very rarely, but still...), a change from sticks to brushes, hot-rods, timpani mallets, or even simply heavier/lighter sticks. I don't recollect the sound person tweaking the PA, either, altering compression or reverb/delay for a number, or even the balance between the parts of the kit. Maybe we drummers are not quite as precious about these nuances, or maybe, for us, it really is all in the wrists..! 

[Dan Dare]

21 hours ago, Jo.gwillim said:

One week I can rehearse and everything seems perfect.  Next week,  same gear, same room same band it sounds awful.

 

That's another bit of the equation. How we are feeling, expectations, atmospheric conditions, etc all play a part. I find humid conditions make it harder to get a decent sound, which is to be expected, I suppose, given that air is "thicker" when humid. It's easy to end up chasing your tail.

[Agent 00Soul]

On 30/08/2024 at 20:53, meterman said:

For years I struggled with trying to get the bass sound on the "Histoire De Melody Nelson" album by Serge Gainsbourg. 
 

 

 

The Melodie Nelson bass line is one of those unicorns isn't it?  It's also one of those rare moments where the sound is so famous, it's a shorthand.  Say Melodie Nelson bass and many people know exactly what you mean.

 

A few years ago, I was in the studio and a song had a perfect opportunity for one.  I couldn't ever sound like Dave Richmond did in 1969 or whenever, but we wanted to channel the vibe.  We used a Fender Jaguar bass strung with oldish flats and played with a pick and some palm muting plugged directly (no fx for once) into a 1959 Fender Bassman modern reissue and turned it up to the edge of distortion.  The rest was the bass part and the engineer's fingers - doing whatever they do. It was one of the loudest instruments in the final mix too - I think that's also one of the important things.

 

Not nearly as special as Richmond, but the feeling and reference were clearly there.  People in the know said "Melodie Nelson bass" when they heard the song.

Edited September 2 by Agent 00Soul
additional info

[BigRedX]

Not really. Apart from those sounds that rely on a specific playing technique that I haven't mastered (like slap) I can get all the sounds I want using programmable effects.

[meterman]

3 hours ago, Agent 00Soul said:

 

The Melodie Nelson bass line is one of those unicorns isn't it?  It's also one of those rare moments where the sound is so famous, it's a shorthand.  Say Melodie Nelson bass and many people know exactly what you mean.

 

A few years ago, I was in the studio and a song had a perfect opportunity for one.  I couldn't ever sound like Dave Richmond did in 1969 or whenever, but we wanted to channel the vibe.  We used a Fender Jaguar bass strung with oldish flats and played with a pick and some palm muting plugged directly (no fx for once) into a 1959 Fender Bassman modern reissue and turned it up to the edge of distortion.  The rest was the bass part and the engineer's fingers - doing whatever they do. It was one of the loudest instruments in the final mix too - I think that's also one of the important things.

 

Not nearly as special as Richmond, but the feeling and reference were clearly there.  People in the know said "Melodie Nelson bass" when they heard the song.

Closest I ever got was with a late 70’s Mustang strung with flats, plugged into a Vox AC30. No foam at bridge but palm muting and pick were part of it. It’s a classic, recognizable sound and style, but I’ve only heard a handful of modern players really get it.
 

Dave Richmond didn’t have to try - he was just doing his thing. Everyone else was just trying to do his thing. I’m not sure if he’s playing on this, but it’s a similar vibe:

 

 

 

 

 

[Muzz]

I can get ballpark on pretty much anything with the Stomp, but, as has been said above, I still sound like me doing it. Once I'd come to terms with that (and the realisation that no-one else is listening that hard, especially not the paying punters), it made life a lot easier.

[Merton]

2 hours ago, Muzz said:

I can get ballpark on pretty much anything with the Stomp, but, as has been said above, I still sound like me doing it. Once I'd come to terms with that (and the realisation that no-one else is listening that hard, especially not the paying punters), it made life a lot easier.

This is pretty much where I’m at with everything except bloody fuzz 😅

[Agent 00Soul]

5 hours ago, meterman said:

Closest I ever got was with a late 70’s Mustang strung with flats, plugged into a Vox AC30. No foam at bridge but palm muting and pick were part of it.

 

That's a good point.  I used to get a similar sound by plugging into a Fender Twin Reverb.  It was too twangy with not enough low end for full-on Gainsbourg ("L'anamour" is a fantastic song btw), but you can get channel some retro style by using a classic guitar amp in the studio instead of a bass amp.

[miles'tone]

I struggled to make certain sounds.

Mostly, "no, I don't need a new bass".

😄

[Stub Mandrel]

On 31/08/2024 at 13:16, casapete said:

I’ve recently found a new solution though - it’s the ‘Vintage’ button on my Fender

Rumble 500. Once engaged it makes my bass sound exactly how I like it, job done. 

It’s not usually through the PA, but does fit the 3 piece blues band I’m currently 

playing with really well. 

 

My Orange gives me this too. But for 'classic rock' I'm looking for something more elusive.

[diskwave]

On 31/08/2024 at 13:22, Dad3353 said:

I don't remember seeing drummers, at 'live' gigs, re-tuning their drums for different songs, still less swapping out snares or toms, to recreate the authentic sounds of the original work being covered

This...Tho to place my comment in some sort of context.

Its taken me many years to realise that for me and all the people I ever worked with there really is just one tone that does it all.. and I'll refrain from banging on about P basses cause you can probably achieve it with plenty other instruments. Anyway what I mean is. A hard punchy tone which is predominantly of the low mid variety will cover 99.9999% of all music.

Ive even played Duran type material with the ubiquitos P bass and it sounded very close to JT's barky tone. The only tone that I might have struggled with is Geddy Lees but then that clanky scooped thing quite frankly doesn't sit well with me anyway, plus Ive never had to play any Rush ever. But everything else and I include Reggae too....a crisp low mid punch will always win the day.