Over-ear noise defenders for music?

[SumOne]

Are there such a thing as a decent over-ear noise defender for musicians i.e. one that basically keeps stuff sounding the same but quieter (rather than muffled)?

 

I have ACS custom earplugs that I'll still use for live stuff, but using them for weekly band practice sessions there are a couple of issues: They are a bit of a faff to get in/out (and need lubeing up!) and cleaning, and I've lost one pair so far,  whereas over-ear are immediately straight on/off and a bit more tricky to loose,  and for the second time in recent years I have needed to get my ears un-blocked via microsuction with different ear specialists telling me that regularly pushing the ACS earplugs into my ears is probably causing the issue (best not to push things into your ears if it can be avoided). 

 

Over-ear defenders tend to seem to be designed as workplace ear defenders, or for children - rather than for musicians and preserving the sound. 

 

Perhaps the Alpine Defender?

 

Or, perhaps a good passive noise isolating headphones, the types Drummers tend to use , perhaps Vic Firth isolating headphones? ...I guess if they are too good at passively isolating stuff I could plug them into the mixing desk to monitor.

Edited August 30 by SumOne

[rOB]

Interesting. I'll be following this discussion.

[SumOne]

I found this Bass player online review of the Vic Firth Headphones:

 

 

 

 

.....so it seems they are actually too good at isolation to just use them over-ear alternative to earplugs, you'd need to plug them in to monitor whatever you want to hear (that wouldn't work for me as we don't mic up the drums or mic/DI the bass).

 

 

 

I've ordered some Alpine Defender over-ears  as they are reasonable cheap (£25) and via Amazon I can return for free if they don't work out. They are -26db though which seems like it'll be too much (my ACS in-ears are -17db, which is  about the right amount).

[Bolo]

Our drummer is quite pleased with the Vic Firths.

Those alpines look fairly compact, maybe too small for old man ears. Interested in your findings!

 

There's also a lot of over-ear protection available for the shooting/hunting stuff. No telling how they affect music quality.

 

"that wouldn't work for me as we don't mic up the drums or mic/DI the bass)."

One overhead mic in the room would do the trick, across from the drummer not over their cymbals.

 

Edited September 5 by Bolo

[ahpook]

On 30/08/2024 at 22:09, rOB said:

Interesting. I'll be following this discussion.

 

Me too.

 

I'm quite happy with my ear plugs, but I do worry about jamming ear wax into my ears every time I use them. Also one of the folks at one of our gigs was wearing a pair of over-ears and it got me thinking about alternatives.

[asingardenof]

Very interested in this because I absolutely cannot stand the sensation of things in my ears, and they have a tendency to fall out meaning repeated insertions which hurt. 

[MartinB]

We're all on headphones for band practice; I use a pair of (over-ear) Audio Technica ATH-M50s. I'm direct to the mixer, the (acoustic) drums are mic'd, and the guitar amp goes to an isolation cab. The only sound in the room when not wearing headphones is the drums, the vocals, some muffled noise from the iso cab, and quiet twanging of guitar strings. I was originally using in-ears, but it turned out that full isolation just wasn't needed - the M50s are enough to get the drums to a comfortable volume, and the cymbals that get muffled I can bring back in through the mixer. And they're a lot more comfortable to wear for a long period, and less faff to get in and out.

[ahpook]

On 30/08/2024 at 16:35, SumOne said:

Perhaps the Alpine Defender?

 

I've just ordered a pair, I shall report back to The St-earing Committee in due course.

Edited September 5 by ahpook

[meterman]

The Vic Firth isolation ones are good for cutting mostly everything out, but I don't know how suitable they would be for rehearsals. I'm not sure how much of the rest of the band you'd be able to hear?

[Bolo]

10 hours ago, meterman said:

The Vic Firth isolation ones are good for cutting mostly everything out, but I don't know how suitable they would be for rehearsals. I'm not sure how much of the rest of the band you'd be able to hear?

Again easy to solve with a mic in the room and a small mixer.

[meterman]

3 hours ago, Bolo said:

Again easy to solve with a mic in the room and a small mixer.

Apologies for being a bit slow but do you mean the Vic Firth iso's that have a cable, like regular headphones?

I meant the ones that just act as ear defenders, like you'd wear on a building site or something. I had a pair, the red £89 jobs. No cable. Not sure how a mic and mixer would help with those? 
 

Or something else?

[Bolo]

https://www.musicstore.com/nl_NL/EUR/Vic-Firth-SIH2-Isolation-Headphone-Stereo/art-DRU0037407-000?campaign=BShopping/DE&ProgramUUID=0oHAqJarcl4AAAFlQQx58M3j&msclkid=5efdecf255d0162ce9668a2895acd810

 

These are black and have a cable. There's also Bluetooth ones I see, not sure how they are on lag. About €70.

[BlueMoon]

The 3M range is pretty extensive, professional, and sensibly priced. I’ve not used them for music but The Optime Peltor I provides 26-27 dB reduction. Not sure if it’s a linear suppression across the frequency range though.

 

 

[ahpook]

Excuse my absolute lack of knowledge here, but can you get ear defenders with a built-in room mic and a volume control, so you can effectively turn down the outside world with a twist of a dial ?

 

Feels like such a thing should exist...

Edited September 6 by ahpook

[Bolo]

1 minute ago, ahpook said:

Excuse my absolute lack of knowledge here, but can you get ear defenders with a built-in room mic and a volume control, so you can effectively turn down the outside world with a twist of a dial ?

If there are they're likely going to be very expensive. That's a lot of challenges to overcome. Sound quality and or comfort will probably suffer from having to decouple good built-in microphones from the damping shell.

[ahpook]

Just now, Bolo said:

If there are they're likely going to be very expensive. That's a lot of challenges to overcome. Sound quality and or comfort will probably suffer from having to decouple good built-in microphones from the damping shell.

 

Aha ! Very good point, thanks.

 

[SumOne]

42 minutes ago, ahpook said:

Excuse my absolute lack of knowledge here, but can you get ear defenders with a built-in room mic and a volume control, so you can effectively turn down the outside world with a twist of a dial ?

 

Feels like such a thing should exist...

Dragons Den idea! Basically the opposite of hearing aids.

 

High-end active noise cancelling headphones have decent microphones built-in and can be set to varying levels of 'transparency' to play outside noises through the headphone speakers, perhaps having that sort of technology built into passive isolating (ear defender type) headphones could work. 

 

 Sennheiser is owned by a hearing-aid company, Sonova.

Edited September 6 by SumOne

[ahpook]

16 minutes ago, SumOne said:

Basically the opposite of hearing aids.

 

Nicely put, yes !

 

[ahpook]

It seems you can get shooting ear defenders that will allow lower volume sounds like speech to be sent to speakers inside the defenders. I wonder if that principle has been used for musicians ? They do seem to delay the incoming sounds slightly so the circuitry can decide loud vs quiet before letting the external noises through.

 

Time for some pondering and research perhaps.

 

Any shootists on BC who might know if they'd work ?

Edited September 6 by ahpook

[Bolo]

1 hour ago, ahpook said:

? They do seem to delay the incoming sounds slightly so the circuitry can decide loud vs quiet before letting the external noises through.

Oh I was under the assumption that they were passive open louvres that close when a high energy sound wave hit. I have zero hunting experience.

[ahpook]

4 minutes ago, Bolo said:

Oh I was under the assumption that they were passive open louvres that close when a high energy sound wave hit. I have zero hunting experience.

 

No experience here either...just what I've deduced from the couple of retailers websites I've looked at - you could be right.

 

 

[jimmyb625]

3 hours ago, ahpook said:

It seems you can get shooting ear defenders that will allow lower volume sounds like speech to be sent to speakers inside the defenders. I wonder if that principle has been used for musicians ? They do seem to delay the incoming sounds slightly so the circuitry can decide loud vs quiet before letting the external noises through.

 

Time for some pondering and research perhaps.

 

Any shootists on BC who might know if they'd work ?

It's been a long time since I tried them, but my main concern would be that they're mainly designed to amplify speech. I'm not sure what they'd be like for music as the in built microphones weren't great. There's also an in-built gate, which I'm not sure is adjustable (probably depends on the model) so that might be problematic as well. 

That said, it's been 20 years since I last tried them, so the technology may have moved on since then.

[Rosie C]

6 hours ago, ahpook said:

Excuse my absolute lack of knowledge here, but can you get ear defenders with a built-in room mic and a volume control, so you can effectively turn down the outside world with a twist of a dial ?

 

Feels like such a thing should exist...

 

I did have a pair just like this from a local gun shop. I was struggling to balance the volume of the drummer and horns in our swing band with hearing the conductor in between numbers. I found the sound quality through the mics was poor, and they suffered from mobile phone interference. They had a feature to reduce the volume when a gun went off, which triggered if the drummer in our swing band really went for it, and it shut off the sound at a certain point. Probably perfect for a gun discharging but for music a more graduated control is needed. On the plus side they were bright pink which prompted conversations and gave me many opportunities to talk to young people about protecting their hearing. 

 

Edited September 6 by Rosie C

[ahpook]

8 minutes ago, Rosie C said:

On the plus side they were bright pink which prompted conversations and gave me many opportunities to talk to young people about protecting their hearing. 

 

 

Always a good thing. I advocate strongly for my bandmates to wear some kind of hearing protection, but it falls on deaf ears*

 

Looks like the shooting defenders might not be the answer then. Good to know 👍

 

 

 

 

*Couldn't help myself, sorry.

 

Edited September 6 by ahpook

[jimmyb625]

8 hours ago, ahpook said:

 

Always a good thing. I advocate strongly for my bandmates to wear some kind of hearing protection, but it falls on deaf ears*

 

Looks like the shooting defenders might not be the answer then. Good to know 👍

 

 

 

 

*Couldn't help myself, sorry.

 

You can get over-ears hearing protectors which have a 3.5mm socket, but you'd need to put in an external source (possibly a small zoom recorder).