Gifted a 4/4 UB, needs love, clueless!

[Misowaki]

Hi folks! 

So I've been gifted an old Antoni upright from a house clearance. I know they're nothing special, but hey. The painted and worn out fingerboard needs some love, probs also too big for me at 5'7 but I've got it and want to make use of it if I can but if not and I can sell it on for my uncle, that would be nice. 

 

First things first, it needs new strings because one is snapped and the rest look like they ve been chewed by a rat but I can't afford a whole new set on a gamble. Would anyone have an old set they could sell me? 

 

Secondly, fingerboard is okay to play but should I treat it with anything or leave as is?

 

Thirdly, any idea how much one might go for? It's in pretty poor condition but it plays and sounds nice enough!

 

Thanks, all. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 2 by Misowaki

[Jakester]

I have some DB strings that I bought ages ago when there was a PSA for super-cheap no-name strings. Never fitted them, not sure if they're the right length or indeed any good whatsoever - but they're yours if you want them! 

 

(What a sales pitch, eh?)

[Misowaki]

Legend! Thanks, how much?

 

Any ideas on the rest, per chance?

Edited September 2 by Misowaki

[Misowaki]

2 hours ago, Jakester said:

I have some DB strings that I bought ages ago when there was a PSA for super-cheap no-name strings. Never fitted them, not sure if they're the right length or indeed any good whatsoever - but they're yours if you want them! 

 

(What a sales pitch, eh?)

 

[Happy Jack]

The strings are a necessity regardless but as for the rest the key question is, are you refurbing this to play yourself or getting it ready for sale?

 

An easy starter is to hold the bass upright with the end-pin fully retracted - you don't have to use the end-pin, it's there to make the bass taller. If the nut is way higher than your eyebows then the bass will very probably be too big for you, but if the nut is anywhere close to eyebrow height then the fact that it's a 4/4 doesn't really matter.

 

If you are physically capable of playing the bass, only then do you have a decision to make.

 

[Jakester]

2 hours ago, Misowaki said:

Legend! Thanks, how much?

 

Any ideas on the rest, per chance?

I mean you can have them - gratis, free etc 

[Beer of the Bass]

I had one of these on rental from a shop in the early 2000s before I owned a bass of my own. It wasn't wonderful, even a bit boxy and thin sounding compared to other plywood basses, but it did get me out and playing. They were literally the least expensive new bass in the UK at the time, I'd price a used one with that in mind.

Have you checked that the soundpost is present and in the right spot on yours? (It should be just downwards of the G side bridge foot). The fingerboard surface is a tricky one - most advice on maintaining fingerboards is intended for ebony or other dense hardwood boards, rather than a painted board like this one. I'd string it up first (if the soundpost in in place, and reading up on bridge positioning), and then see how it looks - the amount of relief along its length and whether there are any bumps or dips, before deciding if it needs any reshaping or just a light tidying of the surface finish.

Edited September 2 by Beer of the Bass

[Misowaki]

24 minutes ago, Jakester said:

I mean you can have them - gratis, free etc 

I'll DM you, thanks!

[Misowaki]

49 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

The strings are a necessity regardless but as for the rest the key question is, are you refurbing this to play yourself or getting it ready for sale?

 

An easy starter is to hold the bass upright with the end-pin fully retracted - you don't have to use the end-pin, it's there to make the bass taller. If the nut is way higher than your eyebows then the bass will very probably be too big for you, but if the nut is anywhere close to eyebrow height then the fact that it's a 4/4 doesn't really matter.

 

If you are physically capable of playing the bass, only then do you have a decision to make.

 

Thanks! I measured it and as far as I can tell it's a 4/4 which web advice suggests is for 5'9 and above but the nut is basically right on my eyebrow without the end pin. Just need to put something rubbery on the bottom to keep it still!

As far as I can tell, I'm capable but the strings are gnarly AF so the real test will be when I have some strings that don't come with a side of tetanus.

[Misowaki]

15 minutes ago, Beer of the Bass said:

I had one of these on rental from a shop in the early 2000s before I owned a bass of my own. It wasn't wonderful, even a bit boxy and thin sounding compared to other plywood basses, but it did get me out and playing. They were literally the least expensive new bass in the UK at the time, I'd price a used one with that in mind.

Have you checked that the soundpost is present and in the right spot on yours? (It should be just downwards of the G side bridge foot). The fingerboard surface is a tricky one - most advice on maintaining fingerboards is intended for ebony or other dense hardwood boards, rather than a painted board like this one. I'd string it up first (if the soundpost in in place, and reading up on bridge positioning), and then see how it looks - the amount of relief along its length and whether there are any bumps or dips, before deciding if it needs any reshaping or just a light tidying of the surface finish.

Thanks for all this! I have no idea what a soundpost is so off to Google I go! 😅
I mean, it plays and it sounds nice, it just doesn't feel nice right now because again, the strings are closer to barbed wire than they are bass strings.
It doesn't look like it will need any reshaping, maybe some oil or something but don't know if that's worth it as it's painted... action seems quite extreme past the half so a read into bridge positioning will help but I assume repositioning will mess with intonation? Maybe it's just my weak electric bass hands, though.

Thanks, all, for your help so far!

[hubrad]

This is what you've got. Don't remember if they did a 4/4, possibly so.

 

https://www.jhs.co.uk/products/antoni-debut-double-bass-outfit-3-4-size

 

If you have one that plays well it'll get you off the ground, but back in music shop days I went to JHS trade sales day and made a beeline for the double bass with a view to persuading my boss to stock it. The display model had a massive hump in the fingerboard around fret 2, making it unplayable. I said to the chap handling the section "if we were to order one, would it come properly set up?", and when he said it was set up I just walked away!

Still, a very nice gift, and if you're getting better strings on it that'll improve matters. Make sure the soundpost is up!

I wouldn't worry about the fingerboard unless it's really bugging you, it's only paint.

If it gets you hooked (fingers crossed, double bass is brill!) and somebody offered you as much as a couple of hundred against your next one I'd go for it 

 

 

Edited September 3 by hubrad
Forgot the link!

[hubrad]

I've put the link in now! 🙄

[Misowaki]

30 minutes ago, hubrad said:

I've put the link in now! 🙄

I did think something was missing

[Burns-bass]

Where are you based?

 

If you’re local to me I’d happily help you out.

[Misowaki]

4 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

Where are you based?

 

If you’re local to me I’d happily help you out.

Ah, that's so kind of you! I'm a fair way away though, near Kingston on Thames, but thanks anyway! Once I've got the strings Jake is so kindly sending me, I'll check all the other bits out and check all the info you've given me, you're all legends, thank you!

[Misowaki]

Sound post is present and seems fine, action is ridiculous though! Any vids I find say 'adjust the wheels on the bridge'which I don't have...

 

Any suggestions on how to make it more playable without dropping half a grand buying a new bridge ir having this reshaped?

 

Also, it is a 3/4, i must have measured it wrong the first time.

 

[ezbass]

9 minutes ago, Misowaki said:

Any suggestions on how to make it more playable without dropping half a grand buying a new bridge ir having this reshaped?

Around £50 is all you need to spend on an adjustable bridge, even less on eBay.

[Misowaki]

12 minutes ago, ezbass said:

Around £50 is all you need to spend on an adjustable bridge, even less on eBay.

I need to stop listening to the first thing I hear on YouTube vids 😅

 

Although it would appear I'd still need to shape and make string grooves with that option. Time to call in a favour from a carpenter friend! 

Edited September 4 by Misowaki

[NickA]

Bridges can be cheap but fitting them is not.  They need:

 

Top shaping to match the fingerboard

Feet shaping to match the belly of the beast

Notches for the strings

Tidying up and thinning down

 

No2 is the hard one. 

 

If the action is too high just cut the top off the existing bridge.  Same shape but lower down.

 

The fingerboard is probably badly grooved if the paint wore through.  It will need sanding flat.  If you want it black then I'd sand all the paint off, use black wood stain and follow up with a layer of epoxy ( yacht varnish might do).

 

Value = zilch, sadly.  Dealers tend to chuck these in a skip rather than mend them. ☹️

 

 

Edited September 5 by NickA

[Misowaki]

2 hours ago, NickA said:

Bridges can be cheap but fitting them is not.  They need:

 

Top shaping to match the fingerboard

Feet shaping to match the belly of the beast

Notches for the strings

Tidying up and thinning down

 

No2 is the hard one. 

 

If the action is too high just cut the top off the existing bridge.  Same shape but lower down.

 

The fingerboard is probably badly grooved if the paint wore through.  It will need sanding flat.  If you want it black then I'd sand all the paint off, use black wood stain and follow up with a layer of epoxy ( yacht varnish might do).

 

Value = zilch, sadly.  Dealers tend to chuck these in a skip rather than mend them. ☹️

 

 

Thanks!

Yeah, I realised as soon as I delved further into it that it might not be such an easy fix with a new bridge. Even sanding down the existing bridge is as much work as buying a new adjustable bridge but still having to do the same work. The only saving grace would be that I wouldn't ruin the existing bridge so might still give it a punt anyway if the worst outcome is losing £30 and a couple of hours.

No grooves to speak of on the fingerboard, more or less cosmetic/maybe a millimetre difference and at this point, I can't really play upright bass as is and I don't yet have playable strings so that can wait 😅 
The bridge is my main concern as I'm certain the strings shouldn't be that high and if I'm ever gonna get to grips with an upright, the damn thing needs to be playable. I mean, I'm never gonna be Paul Chambers but I'd like to at least be able to attempt 'So What' and feel somewhat in control rather than like I'm fighting metal snakes!

I never wanted to sell it anyway, just wanted an idea of cost to restore vs buying one so with Jake's strings and maybe a £50 punt on shaping a new bridge, I'm hoping I'll have a playable bass before long!

[NickA]

Your action is indeed too high, it's really due to the neck angle being wrong, but it would cost a load to fix that.  I wonder if the neck joint is giving way.  Anyway easy fix is smaller bridge which will make it quieter, but playable.

 

You'll not do any damage to the existing bridge by taking a few mm off the top.  Much easier than shaping the feet of a new one and a new adjustable bridge will probably need cutting down anyway.

 

On my own bass I decided after 20 odd years that I wanted a lower action so took 2mm off the top of the bridge.  Then realised the bass didnt speak as easily or sound so good with a bow, so had adjusters added to the bridge to bring it up again! Now I can vary it from 8mm to about 15mm under the G. 

 

Moving the bridge up and down the length of the bass will change the sound but hardly affect intonation ( minutely changes the scale)  Those little "V" shapes on the f-holes are supposed to line up with the middle of the bridge.  Generally if you move the bridge toward the end pin, you'll get a harder tone, towards the finger board, a softer one.  My bass is best with the Vs aligned with the back of the bridge.

Edited September 6 by NickA

[Misowaki]

Thanks again, don't know what I'd do without you all!

Neck joint looks fine, think it's just because it's a budget upright. This is at least 20 years old, a brand of JHS who just import cheap Budget instruments and they are rarely set up to play without some work, right? The money saved will be spent later down the line getting it nice, which is where I'm at currently. 

[hubrad]

I deepened the slots in my bridge a few years back, as a temporary measure before getting the bridge off and onto the disc sander. Still not got round to that last bit as it works fine and perhaps gives the strings a little more protection. Technically wrong but plays and sounds great!

I used a selection of those small engineers' files. 

If you zoom in you'll see a sliver of paper I used last summer to raise the G just a tad when everything just wandered ed a bit with outdoor gigs. I'd forgotten that; probably get it out again.😃

Edited September 8 by hubrad
Remembered to add pic!

[Rosie C]

On 04/09/2024 at 14:23, Misowaki said:

Sound post is present and seems fine, action is ridiculous though! Any vids I find say 'adjust the wheels on the bridge'which I don't have...

 

Any suggestions on how to make it more playable without dropping half a grand buying a new bridge ir having this reshaped?

 

 

After my local bass guy retired, he recommended "Martyn Bailey Luthier Ltd" (https://mjbl.co.uk) 

who can add adjusters to an existing bridge by mail order. It was about £120 from memory and the results were good. 

 

Edited September 7 by Rosie C

[PaulKing]

When you get round to changing the strings, don't take them all off at once. Change them one at a time.

You won't regret it. (Whereas you will if you take them all off.)

Just Google 'my sound post fell' to find out why.

 

I agree that action is stupid high, can only be due to neck shifting, so that is a bit of a concern. You're going to end up with a very stunted bridge ... but you wouldn't be the first so go for it.

Which reminds me ... when you decide to take the bridge off you have to ignore the above instruction... damn.

So then, lay the bass down on its back and treat it very carefully, and leave it there (preferably with several very heavy books on top) while you're fiddling with the bridge.

Just Google 'my sound post fell' to find out why. 🙂

 

There are plenty of instructions online about how to trim the top of the bridge without changing the curve. 

 

You have a proper old school 'Demented Are Go' sticker. Psychobilly kudos. That explains the knackered fingerboard.