Herbie Flowers RIP

[The fasting showman]

1 hour ago, Old Man Riva said:

Whilst the album itself has often received lukewarm reviews, Herbie’s performance on David Live is a masterclass in bass playing, imho.

 

If I had to choose one desert island album for its bass playing it would be that one - it’s got everything.

 

A wonderful musician, and so influential… 

Totally agree, he's playing with amazing soloists on that album yet his character really comes through boldly and the production puts him in a great place in the mix. It's my favourite showcase of Herbie's playing and sound.

Much as Bowie used the obviously brilliant Willie Weeks / Andy Newmark rhythm section on Young Americans, I think he struggled with a few different live band lineups after David Live until he recruited Murray / Davis and Alomar.

Tony Newman and Herbie Flowers were a hard act to follow.

RIP

[Belka]

19 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

There’s some controversy about what he did and didn’t play on this album, but the tone he got on Melody Nelson album (and live) is the greatest bass sound I’ve ever heard.

As great as Herbie was, the album was all Dave Richmond. Live was certainly Herbie though.

[Rodders]

Not Herbie! Another of my personal Bass Greats gone, The Eve of War, Country Comforts, Jump into the Fire among others will be on my playlist today.

[Old Man Riva]

56 minutes ago, The fasting showman said:

Totally agree, he's playing with amazing soloists on that album yet his character really comes through boldly and the production puts him in a great place in the mix. It's my favourite showcase of Herbie's playing and sound.

Much as Bowie used the obviously brilliant Willie Weeks / Andy Newmark rhythm section on Young Americans, I think he struggled with a few different live band lineups after David Live until he recruited Murray / Davis and Alomar.

Tony Newman and Herbie Flowers were a hard act to follow.

RIP

I couldn’t agree more. Summed up in a better way than I ever could!

 

Visconti’s 2005 mix lost some of Herbie’s presence, so it’s the original album for me every time.

 

I also love that Herbie was at the forefront of the band revolt regarding them not being told beforehand they were recording the gig for a live record - Bowie, and his then manager Tony Defries, wanted to pay the band the union rate of $70 for the recording, whereas Herbie demanded (and got!) $5000 apiece for the group. Bowie was fuming.

 

Herbie Flowers: Fabulous musician; wonderful human being, and man of the people!

[Kiwi]

1 hour ago, diskwave said:

Well well. Is that salmon pink underneath blue? Fascinating.  

LPB over fiesta red - which usually fades to salmon pink

[diskwave]

13 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

LPB over fiesta red - which usually fades to salmon pink

Sorry for the nerd assault. So is that a factory recall or was it refinished way back in the day?

[bass_dinger]

4 hours ago, diskwave said:

Well well. Is that salmon pink underneath blue? Fascinating.  

Or, as Farrow and Ball would have it, Dead Salmon.

[miles'tone]

3 hours ago, diskwave said:

Sorry for the nerd assault. So is that a factory recall or was it refinished way back in the day?

 

It came from the factory new like that I believe. Interestingly, it never received a nitro clearcoat which is why the blue didn't turn greeny (the metallic paint used at that time wasn't nitro so it didn't yellow on it's own).

Edited September 9, 2024 by miles'tone

[The fasting showman]

3 hours ago, Old Man Riva said:

I couldn’t agree more. Summed up in a better way than I ever could!

 

Visconti’s 2005 mix lost some of Herbie’s presence, so it’s the original album for me every time.

 

I also love that Herbie was at the forefront of the band revolt regarding them not being told beforehand they were recording the gig for a live record - Bowie, and his then manager Tony Defries, wanted to pay the band the union rate of $70 for the recording, whereas Herbie demanded (and got!) $5000 apiece for the group. Bowie was fuming.

 

Herbie Flowers: Fabulous musician; wonderful human being, and man of the people!

It's interesting to think that by the time Herbie was in that band he was just that bit older in the industry than the artists he played for. Like Dave Richmond and Danny Thompson, to mention another couple of the UKs greatest bass players who were contemporary, he'd been in the forces ( National Service I'm guessing? ) and served as a musician. 

 

A fascinating time frame, to have been there at the start of rock n roll and pop music as we know it up to now, and participated in the music industry at such a vibrant time.

[Burns-bass]

5 hours ago, Belka said:

As great as Herbie was, the album was all Dave Richmond. Live was certainly Herbie though.

Yeah, I meant more that kind of heavy muted flatwound sound. 
 

Did you see the gig at the Barbican?

[diskwave]

5 hours ago, Belka said:

As great as Herbie was, the album was all Dave Richmond. Live was certainly Herbie though.

And DR played on Je'taime. Was an amazing time to be a session player.

[Guest]

Tremendous player, friendly guy too. R.I.P.

[Kiwi]

12 hours ago, diskwave said:

Sorry for the nerd assault. So is that a factory recall or was it refinished way back in the day?

No, completely original. It was common for them to grab a body finished in a standard colour off the assembly line and just blow the custom colour directly on top.  

 

9 hours ago, miles'tone said:

 

(the metallic paint used at that time

The metallic colours were two layers. The first was either silver (or gold for red colours) with a candy tint over the top.

[Geek99]

3 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

No, completely original. It was common for them to grab a body finished in a standard colour off the assembly line and just blow the custom colour directly on top.  

Failed sunbursts also 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Rodders said:

Not Herbie! Another of my personal Bass Greats gone, The Eve of War, Country Comforts, Jump into the Fire among others will be on my playlist today.

I found The Eve of War monstrously difficult to play. Took me a couple of months to truly master it and left me with a deep respect for Flowers' skills.

[Misdee]

I grew up listening to Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds (my older brother was a big fan) and even back when that album came out Herbie Flowers was the elder statesman of British bass players. 

 

Regarding whether Herbie played on Melody Nelson, the last I heard was that it had been established that it was definitely Dave Richmond on at least most of the tracks. However, considering Dave Richmond played a Burns bass and Herbie played a Fender, it would be fascinating to listen to the isolated bass tracks and work out if Herbie Flowers is in fact  playing on some of the songs.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if turned out he did.

 

Thinking about it now, Herbie's distinctive tone, that Jazz Bass with flatwound strings and lots of treble, often played with a pick, would be  very fashionable nowadays. That  sound stood out so you could always hear what he was playing, and what he played sounded great and made the music better.

 

Herbie was a magnificent bass player in a magnificent era for popular music made in Britain. It says a lot that his death was announced on the BBC national news. I hope he will always get the recognition he deserves.

Edited September 10, 2024 by Misdee

[Noisyjon]

He is/was a bass legend. I didn't know anything about him before his appearance at the 2016 SE Bass Bass and what an introduction to the man and his career.

RIP Herbie and thank you for the music/knowledge/stories.

[miles'tone]

3 hours ago, Misdee said:

I grew up listening to Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds (my older brother was a big fan) and even back when that album came out Herbie Flowers was the elder statesman of British bass players. 

 

Regarding whether Herbie played on Melody Nelson, the last I heard was that it had been established that it was definitely Dave Richmond on at least most of the tracks. However, considering Dave Richmond played a Burns bass and Herbie played a Fender, it would be fascinating to listen to the isolated bass tracks and work out if Herbie Flowers is in fact  playing on some of the songs.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if turned out he did.

 

Thinking about it now, Herbie's distinctive tone, that Jazz Bass with flatwound strings and lots of treble, often played with a pick, would be  very fashionable nowadays. That  sound stood out so you could always hear what he was playing, and what he played sounded great and made the music better.

 

Herbie was a magnificent bass player in a magnificent era for popular music made in Britain. It says a lot that his death was announced on the BBC national news. I hope he will always get the recognition he deserves.

It was Dave Richmond on the album, Herbie played it out live (he used Roto 88 tapewounds, not flats btw 😉).

 

This thread on the other place is a very good read. Dave Richmond himself chimes in. Cool info shared...

 

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/serge-gainsbourg-that-je-taime-bass-sound-again.1373990/

 

[Silvia Bluejay]

I have dug out the scan of my article about Basschat's collective interview. I could obviously have written dozens of pages, but I had a strict word count to adhere to.

 

 

Herbie Flowers interview BGM 139 Feb 2017.pdf

[Misdee]

12 hours ago, miles'tone said:

It was Dave Richmond on the album, Herbie played it out live (he used Roto 88 tapewounds, not flats btw 😉).

 

This thread on the other place is a very good read. Dave Richmond himself chimes in. Cool info shared...

 

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/serge-gainsbourg-that-je-taime-bass-sound-again.1373990/

 

Thanks, that's a fascinating read. So many musicians have rediscovered the sublime artistry that went into those old Serge Gainsbourg records that it's about time someone made a proper documentary about it all. 

 

London in the late 1960's/early 1970's was such centre for music, it's not surprising there was a  thriving workforce of first-rate players to actually make the tracks.

 

Phillips Studios in Marble Arch where Herbie Flowers et al did so much work and  those Serge Gainsbourg records were made ended up being bought by Paul Weller, if I remember correctly, and was renamed Solid Bond.

Edited September 11, 2024 by Misdee

[miles'tone]

1 hour ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

I have dug out the scan of my article about Basschat's collective interview. I could obviously have written dozens of pages, but I had a strict word count to adhere to.

 

 

Herbie Flowers interview BGM 139 Feb 2017.pdf 3 MB · 2 downloads

Wow that's excellent Silvia, good work! Thanks! Herbie was a great chap in every way.

[diskwave]

Just dawned on me he was a News item across all the networks this week. How many bassists who weren't household names would that happen to...little to none I expect. Amazing.

[Sarlscharisma]

Just read this.  What a bass legend he was with the self-deprecating character.  I heard his magical playing on Rock On well before I ever knew who played it decades later.  But that line just inspired me to play.  What better tribute can I pay.  RIP Herbie.

[51m0n]

Absolutely gutted.

 

Plux is my eldest, Herbie was an absolute gentleman,  met him first a quarter of a century ago, he was so generous...

 

https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/97801-today-i-played-herbie-flowers-1959-jazz-bass/page/1/

[Richard R]

Just read this, completely missed all the news articles and reporting.

I loved Sky as a teenager and last year bought the studio albums boxed CD set. Playing those tracks up and down the motorway has been a joy, and listening into them at home has been a real education in bass playing. 

 

RIP Herbie Flowers.