NBD - Sire Z7

[neepheid]

It finally arrived today, and I must admit that my first impressions were rather mixed.  It was perhaps unfair, but I took delivery at work, which meant that the only initial go I could have on it was through an old 30W amp and not very loud - basically "is it working?".  I was initially impressed with the fit and finish.  The tuners are excellent - smooth, easy turning but with no play.  The neck is what one expects from Sire - satin finish, lovely rolled fingerboard edges.  But I have to say that I was not impressed with the knobs - they feel lightweight and cheap, and to cap it off the passive tone ring was loose and kept turning beyond its end.  I wasn't sure if the knob was loose or it was a dodgy pot.  The pots are all different in feel especially in the detents - the bass knob has a very severe detent that engages with an audible click, but the blend pot's detent is vague and very easy to turn past.

 

Anyway, I got it home and things got better.  Thankfully, the tone ring/knob was just loose, pot was fine.  Giving it a proper blast through my pedalboard things really opened up, tone-wise.  The pickups sound great to my ears.  The neck pickup, despite its diminutive size compared to the bridge holds its own when soloed, but admittedly does get a little lost when blended.  The preamp is OK once you get used to it.  I find that the bass pot does very little.  I have found that the best way to control this bass is to leave the treble and bass centred, dime the mid control then use the mid sweep as your primary tone control, using the others for seasoning.  The passive tone works in both active and passive modes, which pleased me.  It doesn't have a huge range, but glad it's there.  The blend pot is a bit all or nothing, but that doesn't bother me as I'd be using it like a switch anyway.

 

Little creature comforts include the passive mode working even with the batteries removed, making it a full on "get out of jail free" card in case of battery depletion.  There is very little volume difference between passive and active - in fact with the preamp set flat, I'd say passive is louder.  My wireless bugs get along fine with the bass regardless of it being in active or passive mode - I know some cheap wireless bugs don't like active basses, but mine is happy enough (Lekato WS-70 for reference).

 

So my main (and to be honest only) beef is the knobs.  I think they're ghastly.  They'll be getting changed - replacements have already been ordered.  But that's my only complaint, apart from nitpicky points about the preamp.

 

Enough waffle, have some pics.

 

Edited September 22 by neepheid

[ebenezer]

Nice!....how about the weight?

[neepheid]

10 minutes ago, ebenezer said:

Nice!....how about the weight?

 

Bathroom scales say 4.3kg / 9.5lbs

[neepheid]

I tell you something, Sire aren't mucking about when it comes to allen keys.  Parker pen for scale.

 

 

Leverage.  Nice.

[Cato]

Looks the business, not sure if it's an illusion caused by the colour scheme but the headstock looks a little less 'square' than the one on my mk 1 V7 fretless and maybe a touch smaller?

[neepheid]

6 minutes ago, Cato said:

Looks the business, not sure if it's an illusion caused by the colour scheme but the headstock looks a little less 'square' than the one on my mk 1 V7 fretless and maybe a touch smaller?

 

Tape measures at dawn!  Seriously though, just by eyeballing I think they have made it a bit shorter.  I will compare with my D5 later.

[LeftyJ]

I have to admit, I wasn't all that impressed with the design when I first saw the early promotional pics. I'm glad they extended the lower horn, and I like the 4-in-line headstock a LOT better than their initial 3+1 attempt. It looks great in your pics! The only thing bugging me is how the neck plate aligns (or rather, doesn't) with the neck heel. But thankfully that's hidden on the back of the body where it very likely won't bother anyone else. I love that finish, the slightly darker tint to the neck, and the bridge design which is a proper hommage to the older MM bridges but with its own twist. They really put in an effort to make an instrument that pays tribute to the Stingray but with an identity of its own, and it looks like they succeeded - and I didn't think I would say this. 

[BillyBass]

Congrats!  Finally!

 

So, how close to a Stingray does it get, sonically, at least with the humbucker?

[neepheid]

7 hours ago, BillyBass said:

Congrats!  Finally!

 

So, how close to a Stingray does it get, sonically, at least with the humbucker?

 

No idea, nor do I care

 

EDIT: That was maybe overly glib, sorry for that - the fact is that I've never owned a Stingray, nor have I played one for any appreciable length of time.  Closest I've come is the SBMM SB14 (the original Sterling Sterling) but that was many years ago, honestly I can't remember what it sounded like.

 

I didn't buy the Sire Z7 because I was chasing a Stingray sound - I bought it because I like the look of it, fancied giving it a go on its own merits and I had a positive experience with my D5.  I have little doubt that other people's motivations may be different, you'll have to ask someone else about Sire Z/Stingray comparisons, I'm useless for this question!

Edited September 12 by neepheid

[neepheid]

10 hours ago, Cato said:

Looks the business, not sure if it's an illusion caused by the colour scheme but the headstock looks a little less 'square' than the one on my mk 1 V7 fretless and maybe a touch smaller?

 

Significantly stumpier than my D5 at least:

 

Headstock length from nut to farthest edge

D5 - 239mm

Z7 - 208mm

 

Centre of E tuner to centre of G tuner (approx)

D5 - 145mm

Z7 - 131mm

 

So, the headstock is quite a bit shorter, and they've squashed the tuners together a smidge on the Z7.

[martyy]

Looks great. One thing I can't figure out from the pictures, where is the active/passive switch?

[neepheid]

10 minutes ago, martyy said:

Looks great. One thing I can't figure out from the pictures, where is the active/passive switch?

 

The pot nearest the bridge is a push/pull.

[Mokl]

I like they've actually put the humbucker in the mm sweet spot, great combo with the neck single coil imo. Amazed you don't find it more often.

[Chienmortbb]

22 hours ago, neepheid said:

Anyway, I got it home and things got better.  Thankfully, the tone ring/knob was just loose, pot was fine.  Giving it a proper blast through my pedalboard things really opened up, tone-wise.  The pickups sound great to my ears.  The neck pickup, despite its diminutive size compared to the bridge holds its own when soloed, but admittedly does get a little lost when blended.  The preamp is OK once you get used to it.  I find that the bass pot does very little.  I have found that the best way to control this bass is to leave the treble and bass centred, dime the mid control then use the mid sweep as your primary tone control, using the others for seasoning.  The passive tone works in both active and passive modes, which pleased me.  It doesn't have a huge range, but glad it's there.  The blend pot is a bit all or nothing, but that doesn't bother me as I'd be using it like a switch anyway.

 

Little creature comforts include the passive mode working even with the batteries removed, making it a full on "get out of jail free" card in case of battery depletion.  There is very little volume difference between passive and active - in fact with the preamp set flat, I'd say passive is louder.  My wireless bugs get along fine with the bass regardless of it being in active or passive mode - I know some cheap wireless bugs don't like active basses, but mine is happy enough (Lekato WS-70 for reference).

 

So my main (and to be honest only) beef is the knobs.  I think they're ghastly.  They'll be getting changed - replacements have already been ordered.  But that's my only complaint, apart from nitpicky points about the preamp.

 

Sounds to me like they have used the standard Sire MM preamp. It is a nice preamp but the knobs and pots on ALL Sire basses are sh1te. The passive tone control also has very little range on mine.

[neepheid]

14 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Sounds to me like they have used the standard Sire MM preamp. It is a nice preamp but the knobs and pots on ALL Sire basses are sh1te. The passive tone control also has very little range on mine.

 

I can only speak for the ones I've tried.  The Z7 knobs felt offensively bad to me.  Aluminium is a bad material to make knobs from - it's so light that they feel like plastic anyway - the only thing that gives away the fact that they are made of a metal is that they feel cold if they've been in a cold room. 

 

I haven't spent enough time turning the pots yet but one thing I noticed was they all felt different, especially in the detents. The inconsistency is a tactile turn off for me.  I'm hoping that fitting some decent quality knobs with some heft to them will improve the feel.

 

On the other hand, I don't have a beef with the knobs on my D5 - they are nice flat top barrel knobs which are a bit slimmer than your typical Fender types. The pots feel positive, smooth turning but with a reassuring resistance/inertia which gives a quality feel.  Mind you, it's hard to fsck up a passive VT circuit

 

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

the knobs and pots on ALL Sire basses are sh1te

 

They are nice on my P10.

[Punkfake]

23 hours ago, martyy said:

Looks great. One thing I can't figure out from the pictures, where is the active/passive switch?

The bass eq knob pulls out for passive mode. 

[Punkfake]

On 12/09/2024 at 04:36, BillyBass said:

Congrats!  Finally!

 

So, how close to a Stingray does it get, sonically, at least with the humbucker?

In my opinion it’s dead on. 
 

I have a standard 4 string MM Stingray (not a sterling). It’s older so it’s only a 9v preamp vs the sire 18v but the core sound of that beefy alnico humbucker matches it. I’m actually shocked at how good the pickup is in the Sire. 

There are some things I don’t like but the core sound is not one of them. 

[Punkfake]

21 hours ago, neepheid said:

 

I can only speak for the ones I've tried.  The Z7 knobs felt offensively bad to me.  Aluminium is a bad material to make knobs from - it's so light that they feel like plastic anyway - the only thing that gives away the fact that they are made of a metal is that they feel cold if they've been in a cold room. 

 

I haven't spent enough time turning the pots yet but one thing I noticed was they all felt different, especially in the detents. The inconsistency is a tactile turn off for me.  I'm hoping that fitting some decent quality knobs with some heft to them will improve the feel.

 

On the other hand, I don't have a beef with the knobs on my D5 - they are nice flat top barrel knobs which are a bit slimmer than your typical Fender types. The pots feel positive, smooth turning but with a reassuring resistance/inertia which gives a quality feel.  Mind you, it's hard to fsck up a passive VT circuit

 

I completely agree. 
 

I just got my z7 and gigged with it this past weekend. 
 

The neck is fantastic, the pickups sound great, the controls are useful sonically, the stainless steel frets are a nice touch, string through body, contoured neck heel is lovely, and it looks great (I don’t mind the Sire headstock). 
 

That being said, what the others have said about the knobs is unfortunately true; they’re crap. 
They all feel different. The indents are hard to find. The stacked knobs stick together badly, so it’s difficult to control them individually. Frankly, I don’t need the selectable Q on the mid knob and wish it were just at a set point (like the z3 or a stock MM). They feel cheap in your hand too.

Like I said earlier, they work great as far as getting the sound you want but it’s sometimes a pain to use them. 
The knobs on my real MM are rock solid, smooth and the indents settle in nicely. It’s the one thing Sire really misses on with this bass. 
 

A word about the single coil. There is a significant output difference. As a studio tool this wouldn’t be an issue. As a live instrument I found myself unable to use the neck pickup by itself, even when that’s the tone I wanted because it was such a drastic reduction in signal/volume to FoH. That humbucker is phenomenal though and blending in a little of the neck here and there worked ok. 
 

Another poster said the bass knob doesn’t do much. Not in my experience. 
If I rolled that bass knob up I blew the rest of my band off the stage with the low end - massively powerful. 
 

Now my problem is that I don’t know if the stainless steel frets make this bass worth keeping or if I should get the z3 instead, with the hopes that nonstacked knobs on the z3 would be superior. It would also remove my frustration with the single coil. Every time I play it, I’m going to wish that neck single coil was a viable option, but it’s just not, so I’d almost rather it wasn’t there. 

[la bam]

The stacked knobs on the P7 were bad too. Cheap plastic, but kept sticking to each other. Ie turn the bottom one and you end up inadvertently turning the top one. 

 

I'm sure though (probably on here) people posted replacement solutions - cheap aftermarket knobs. 

 

I love sire as a brand. Best value out there bar none. I'm surprised they've not addressed the stacked knob issue though. 

 

Anywho, they look great basses. Enjoy. 

[Mediocre Polymath]

14 hours ago, Punkfake said:

A word about the single coil. There is a significant output difference. As a studio tool this wouldn’t be an issue. As a live instrument I found myself unable to use the neck pickup by itself, even when that’s the tone I wanted because it was such a drastic reduction in signal/volume to FoH. That humbucker is phenomenal though and blending in a little of the neck here and there worked ok. 

 

Do you know whether the main humbucker is wired in series or parallel? I've played basses with this pickup arrangement ever since I routed a jazz pickup into my OLP musicman copy in 2003, and I've found that they're generally pretty similar so long as the bridge pickup is wired in parallel. The neck is always a bit quieter, but not unusably so.

 

 

[neepheid]

1 hour ago, Mediocre Polymath said:

 

Do you know whether the main humbucker is wired in series or parallel? I've played basses with this pickup arrangement ever since I routed a jazz pickup into my OLP musicman copy in 2003, and I've found that they're generally pretty similar so long as the bridge pickup is wired in parallel. The neck is always a bit quieter, but not unusably so.

 

 

 

It's wired in parallel, in stock configuration.  Details to come.

[neepheid]

Well, that's the knobs sorted.  As Baga Chipz would say, "MUCH BETTAH!"

 

 

[neepheid]

And to expand upon the series/parallel, here are the gut shots:

 

 

 

 

There is a 4 conductor wire coming out of the humbucker.  Red and white are going to the same lug of the blend pot (so it's parallel) and there's a black wire and a green wire both going to ground.  If someone wants to shoehorn a way to do series/parallel or coil split shenanigans, it is electrically possible.  Tight squeeze in there though - so good luck!

 

 

Closeup of where the outer insulation of the humbucker wire ends - hard to see the black wire, but it's hiding behind the green one.

[Bassfinger]

Ooooooh, eeeees nice!