What am I actually trying to achieve and with what?

[MichaelDean]

16 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Markbass announced their new 2x10 combo today. No doubt it will be about a grand, but it’s also 6.5kg lighter.

 

I bet Boss gets feedback from the shops and are working on a V2. They’re mad if they don’t.

The heads are class D, so they've clearly got a new version that works. I'd also be very surprised if they don't update the combo soon. 

[Tech21NYC]

19 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

I had a VTBass rack unit AND a VTBASS DI.

 

Didn't mind them, but the BDDI/RBI was superior, or more to the point, it suited me better.  If @Tech21NYC had made a head with the RBI then it would be my #1 choice.

 

 

 

We used to make the Landmark 300-600 heads which were the RBI/RPM in a single 300-600 watt head. You could alternate between the two channels or combine them. For some reason the bass community is all about feather weight class D heads now but to me a 23lb/10.4kg 300 watt head that is as loud as an Ampeg SVT was a no brainer. 

[NancyJohnson]

5 hours ago, Tech21NYC said:

 

We used to make the Landmark 300-600 heads which were the RBI/RPM in a single 300-600 watt head. You could alternate between the two channels or combine them. For some reason the bass community is all about feather weight class D heads now but to me a 23lb/10.4kg 300 watt head that is as loud as an Ampeg SVT was a no brainer. 

 

I owned a Landmark head - the 300.  I'll admit I liked it a lot (here's the but), but when you're playing these little venues where you have to park miles away or even go up on the train, carrying a 4U/5U rack and a bass is nutso; this is where the appeal of a lightweight head is; sometimes it's necessity over choice.  A lot of UK venues offer tired/worn out backline - I'm sure this is the same in the US - or you have headliners that won't let you anywhere near their stuff, so at least with a small head (that you're happy with) you're kind of assured that at least a decent tone off an XLR will go to FoH.

 

@Tech21NYC You do make some outstanding kit and I've haemorrhaged enough £££ on it over the years.   I've gigged with enough bassists over the years that love the BDDI (I recorded this afternoon - engineer insisted on me using one!); many have expressed pity that there's not a class-D amp with one in the pre-amp.

[prowla]

It'd be good if someone made a compact power amp.

The Sumo ones are a strange form factor

[peteb]

On 15/09/2024 at 08:35, prowla said:

@NancyJohnson As mentioned, I have these.

 

 

You're welcome to try them out for a couple of weeks, or I can bring them to the next Bass Bash.

(The "AvecAmp" is the same size; it's just in a shorter case, so it's further from the camera!)

The power amp is a cheaper model, but I wanted a 1U unit.

 

 

 

 

That's a cool little amp rack. I dunno what the power amp is like, but I would be happy with either of those preamps! 

 

[BigRedX]

12 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

I owned a Landmark head - the 300.  I'll admit I liked it a lot (here's the but), but when you're playing these little venues where you have to park miles away or even go up on the train, carrying a 4U/5U rack and a bass is nutso; this is where the appeal of a lightweight head is; sometimes it's necessity over choice.  A lot of UK venues offer tired/worn out backline - I'm sure this is the same in the US - or you have headliners that won't let you anywhere near their stuff, so at least with a small head (that you're happy with) you're kind of assured that at least a decent tone off an XLR will go to FoH.

 

@Tech21NYC You do make some outstanding kit and I've haemorrhaged enough £££ on it over the years.   I've gigged with enough bassists over the years that love the BDDI (I recorded this afternoon - engineer insisted on me using one!); many have expressed pity that there's not a class-D amp with one in the pre-amp.

 

In that case Helix and a lightweight FRFR powered cab.

 

If you are playing anywhere with a decent PA you won't even need the FRFR as you'll straight into the PA and use the foldback. If you do need a personal monitor you'll find that a typical wedge-shaped FRFR will fit in all sorts of places on stage where you wouldn't even begin to get a traditional bass rig.

 

This has been my set up for the last 6 years now. Most of the time when I do use the FRFR for gigs it's pointed across the stage so that the rest of the band can hear me without needing to have bass in their wedges. I've only done two gigs where it wasn't possible to put the bass through the PA and the FRFR coped far better than my previous very big, heavy and expensive bass rig. Because of the far superior dispersal characteristics of the FRFR I find that I can a lot quieter on stage for the same FoH presence rather than so loud I can barely hear the rest of the band.

 

Image hasn't been a problem. For support gigs I set up in front of the headliner's bass rig and no-one in the audience is any the wiser. If i really needed to have "backline", I'd probably have something fake and lightweight that could be folded flat for transit.

[warwickhunt]

I 'think' you and I @NancyJohnson are possibly trying to achieve the same sonic goal/tone re a sound and I'm following this as I'm struggling to achieve it as well, hence I've read and I'm following this thread.  I'm going to use such vague terms that I'll be laughed at but here goes... I want a sound that is slightly aggressive, a bit of grit/drive but not overdrive; almost a good valve amp just starting to break up that is also maybe fattening up as you get speaker compression.  Like you I have good amps (Thunderfunk, Tech Soundsystems Blackcat, EBS HD350) and some decent cabs (TC RS210 x2 and a TKS 115) and I have a few preamp pedals (Fishman Plat Pro, Sansamp, BBE Acoustimax, Radial Bassbone) but I can't quite achieve that tone in a package that can (easily) go with me to a range of gigs.  I also have an MXR OD (too much drive even when dialled to minimum) and a TC booster (adds a nicer break up but it is still really 'distortion').  The Sansamp drive is an easy fix but it is too global on it's application; I almost want drive but just on the top end.

 

I know some folks achieve their goals through modelling but I just can't, I've honestly tried and I end up spending 5 times as long messing about to achieve the same result as I'd get from my Sansamp or Radial pedals.  I have tried Helix, I owned a Kemper (Toaster) and the Nux MLD through FRFR and through IEM; as a result I'm actually more comfortable using IEM and going through the PA with no backline but I can't find the pedal(s) that will get me the tone I want.  

 

Any way, I'll see if you manage to find something and I'll see if it works for me!    

[NancyJohnson]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

In that case Helix and a lightweight FRFR powered cab.

 

If you are playing anywhere with a decent PA you won't even need the FRFR as you'll straight into the PA and use the foldback. If you do need a personal monitor you'll find that a typical wedge-shaped FRFR will fit in all sorts of places on stage where you wouldn't even begin to get a traditional bass rig.

 

This has been my set up for the last 6 years now. Most of the time when I do use the FRFR for gigs it's pointed across the stage so that the rest of the band can hear me without needing to have bass in their wedges. I've only done two gigs where it wasn't possible to put the bass through the PA and the FRFR coped far better than my previous very big, heavy and expensive bass rig. Because of the far superior dispersal characteristics of the FRFR I find that I can a lot quieter on stage for the same FoH presence rather than so loud I can barely hear the rest of the band.

 

Image hasn't been a problem. For support gigs I set up in front of the headliner's bass rig and no-one in the audience is any the wiser. If i really needed to have "backline", I'd probably have something fake and lightweight that could be folded flat for transit.

 

I've got a Barefaced Big One, a pair of Darkglass 1x12s, and currently, an intact pair of testicles. 

 

Give my wife's propensity of asking when I'm going 'to get rid of some of the speaker cabinets' I don't need/want a powered cabinet I'm afraid.  And I'd prefer not to be wearing my balls as earrings as well! 🤣 

 

 

 

Edited September 17 by NancyJohnson

[NancyJohnson]

33 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

I 'think' you and I @NancyJohnson are possibly trying to achieve the same sonic goal/tone re a sound and I'm following this as I'm struggling to achieve it as well, hence I've read and I'm following this thread.  I'm going to use such vague terms that I'll be laughed at but here goes... I want a sound that is slightly aggressive, a bit of grit/drive but not overdrive; almost a good valve amp just starting to break up that is also maybe fattening up as you get speaker compression.  Like you I have good amps (Thunderfunk, Tech Soundsystems Blackcat, EBS HD350) and some decent cabs (TC RS210 x2 and a TKS 115) and I have a few preamp pedals (Fishman Plat Pro, Sansamp, BBE Acoustimax, Radial Bassbone) but I can't quite achieve that tone in a package that can (easily) go with me to a range of gigs.  I also have an MXR OD (too much drive even when dialled to minimum) and a TC booster (adds a nicer break up but it is still really 'distortion').  The Sansamp drive is an easy fix but it is too global on it's application; I almost want drive but just on the top end.

 

I know some folks achieve their goals through modelling but I just can't, I've honestly tried and I end up spending 5 times as long messing about to achieve the same result as I'd get from my Sansamp or Radial pedals.  I have tried Helix, I owned a Kemper (Toaster) and the Nux MLD through FRFR and through IEM; as a result I'm actually more comfortable using IEM and going through the PA with no backline but I can't find the pedal(s) that will get me the tone I want.  

 

Any way, I'll see if you manage to find something and I'll see if it works for me!    

 

As I've posted elsewhere, after years of playing clean, my first bit of outboard (and tone heaven) was a BassPOD, shortly after it was a BDDI (and all the other Tech21 stuff). 

 

I honestly thought the AO900 was going to be an ideal solution; I'd used a Alpha pedal and didn't really have an issue, but the head itself is pretty gnarly.  By way of observation (with this head), if you want consistency you need to concentrate on just using a single bass, or set up your basses so they all produce identical tonal characteristics to each other.  The amp is undeniably a great bit of kit, but it's stopping me from using anything aside from my Spector, which it's set up to use.

 

Emulation of valve overdrive/distortion is an odd one.  I used an Ashdown ABM for a while and the valve gain stage just added this nasty crackle (like a loose connection) rather than a bit of creamy/cranky, so I just stuck a BDDI into the effects return.

 

At present, I just need to move the AO900 and I'll throw the swag from that towards something else.  Like I said, it's difficult to go somewhere and just try out a load of stuff...Bass Direct, maybe, but not before the head is sold.

[warwickhunt]

14 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

As I've posted elsewhere, after years of playing clean, my first bit of outboard (and tone heaven) was a BassPOD, shortly after it was a BDDI (and all the other Tech21 stuff). 

 

I honestly thought the AO900 was going to be an ideal solution; I'd used a Alpha pedal and didn't really have an issue, but the head itself is pretty gnarly.  By way of observation (with this head), if you want consistency you need to concentrate on just using a single bass, or set up your basses so they all produce identical tonal characteristics to each other.  The amp is undeniably a great bit of kit, but it's stopping me from using anything aside from my Spector, which it's set up to use.

 

Emulation of valve overdrive/distortion is an odd one.  I used an Ashdown ABM for a while and the valve gain stage just added this nasty crackle (like a loose connection) rather than a bit of creamy/cranky, so I just stuck a BDDI into the effects return.

 

At present, I just need to move the AO900 and I'll throw the swag from that towards something else.  Like I said, it's difficult to go somewhere and just try out a load of stuff...Bass Direct, maybe, but not before the head is sold.

 

We differ in that I don't really need/want and amp (or cabs) to achieve what I want; I'm looking at a preamp pedal that I can take to gigs (festival/multiband line ups) and literally give an engineer an XLR feed and ideally the pre-pedal will feed my Rolls PM pedal for IEM.  At the minute I have the Fishman Plat Pro with a TC Clean Boost (which does a bit of dirt) in the effects loop but it's about 75% of the tone that I hear in my head and want to achieve.  

 

We are however similar in that I want to be able to play different basses and to tweak that pre amp tone to suit... sometimes even dialling all the grit out for one particular band scenario. 

 

I have just borrowed an EBS Microbass (II) which is really good but not the right kind of top end drive that I'm looking for.  

[bremen]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

 

Image hasn't been a problem. For support gigs I set up in front of the headliner's bass rig and no-one in the audience is any the wiser. If i really needed to have "backline", I'd probably have something fake and lightweight that could be folded flat for transit.

You need an inflatable washing machine, as marketed by the Geddy White Goods Corp, available at larger branches of Curry's and the middle aisle at Aldi

[BigRedX]

43 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

I've got a Barefaced Big One, a pair of Darkglass 1x12s, and currently, an intact pair of testicles. 

 

Give my wife's propensity of asking when I'm going 'to get rid of some of the speaker cabinets' I don't need/want a powered cabinet I'm afraid.  And I'd prefer not to be wearing my balls as earrings as well! 🤣 

 

Sell everything else. You won't need it once you have the Helix and FRFR cab.

 

I bought an RCF745 FRFR which is relative large in the FRFR and TBH it's complete overkill for my usage, although I didn't know this at the time. However it was still smaller and lighter than 2x10 cab that was part of the bass rig it replaced. If I ever need to buy a replacement FRFR I will get something even smaller and lighter.

 

Also the combined cost of the Helix and FRFR was just over £2k new. When I sold all my other amps, cabs and effects units (one huge bass rig, two cabs for my smaller bass rig and some guitar effects) I actually came away with an overall profit.

[NancyJohnson]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

Sell everything else. You won't need it once you have the Helix and FRFR cab.

 

I bought an RCF745 FRFR which is relative large in the FRFR and TBH it's complete overkill for my usage, although I didn't know this at the time. However it was still smaller and lighter than 2x10 cab that was part of the bass rig it replaced. If I ever need to buy a replacement FRFR I will get something even smaller and lighter.

 

Also the combined cost of the Helix and FRFR was just over £2k new. When I sold all my other amps, cabs and effects units (one huge bass rig, two cabs for my smaller bass rig and some guitar effects) I actually came away with an overall profit.

 

While I can understand the appeal of one of these (powered) cabinets, the overriding things would be chucking money at something I neither want or feel I need and the hassle of actually freeing up funds to purchase, so read that as flogging all my gear! 

 

In truth, I don't like the look of stuff like the Headrush/Alto style of cabinet; frankly would prefer to simply stick with what I have enclosure-wise, unload my Darkglass and purchase something that better suits from an amp perspective.

[BigRedX]

21 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

While I can understand the appeal of one of these (powered) cabinets, the overriding things would be chucking money at something I neither want or feel I need and the hassle of actually freeing up funds to purchase, so read that as flogging all my gear! 

 

In truth, I don't like the look of stuff like the Headrush/Alto style of cabinet; frankly would prefer to simply stick with what I have enclosure-wise, unload my Darkglass and purchase something that better suits from an amp perspective.

 

That's fair enough. 

 

One of the bands I play with doesn't use any backline and we make the "empty stage" part of our performance. For the other we are normally sharing the stage with lots of other bands' backline so the fact that I don't have any isn't noticeable.

 

Personally I could never go back to a conventional rig unless I was being paid a lot of money to do so.

Edited September 18 by BigRedX

[NancyJohnson]

 

 

Here you go pop-pickers.  Recorded about two hours ago.  Mike Lull into BDDI.  This is what I want from a one box head, in a nutshell!
 

[BigRedX]

31 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

 

Here you go pop-pickers.  Recorded about two hours ago.  Mike Lull into BDDI.  This is what I want from a one box head, in a nutshell!

 

The problem is that with a conventional bass rig your sound is a product of every part of the signal chain. If that was the sound I wanted I'd dump everything else after the BDDI. If you are really lucky you'll find an amp that can overcome the colouration of your cabs, but then you will need to use the same amp and cabs every time you play.

[prowla]

54 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

The problem is that with a conventional bass rig your sound is a product of every part of the signal chain. If that was the sound I wanted I'd dump everything else after the BDDI. If you are really lucky you'll find an amp that can overcome the colouration of your cabs, but then you will need to use the same amp and cabs every time you play.

Maybe a mixer and a PA.
Oh, DI the BDDI into the PA! 🙂

[NancyJohnson]

My signal path was predominantly BDDi/RBI > Poweramp for years.  

[BigRedX]

10 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

My signal path was predominantly BDDi/RBI > Poweramp for years.  

 

So why not go back to that?

[NancyJohnson]

34 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

So why not go back to that?

 

I want a one box that does that.  I don't want a rack or multiple units.

[BigRedX]

9 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

I want a one box that does that.  I don't want a rack or multiple units.

 

So find someone who can build you a box with a BDDI and a (Class D?) power amp in it. Job done.

 

Unless of course you want to spend ages buying and trying loads of new kit in which case fill your boots as they say.

[NancyJohnson]

4 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

So find someone who can build you a box with a BDDI and a (Class D?) power amp in it. Job done.

 

Unless of course you want to spend ages buying and trying loads of new kit in which case fill your boots as they say.

 

Is building a custom amp actually a thing?  Ooh.  My head is racing a bit now.

 

I have heard it said that the amp modules are all pretty similar (or only supplied by a couple of different manufacturers.  

[Wolverinebass]

6 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

Is building a custom amp actually a thing?  Ooh.  My head is racing a bit now.

 

I have heard it said that the amp modules are all pretty similar (or only supplied by a couple of different manufacturers.  

I'm sure I've seen threads with @Passinwind making custom amps.

[Passinwind]

19 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

I'm sure I've seen threads with @Passinwind making custom amps.

True, and plenty of others have  as well. It's important to accept that to do it well it's generally much more expensive than just buying something commercial, resale value is often less than nil (and also illegal here in the US at least), and it's just a huge time suck. But yes, one can buy an ICEpower module and throw it in a box with a preamp with sufficient output capacity, and if all goes well it'll make noise.😉

[prowla]

1 hour ago, Passinwind said:

True, and plenty of others have  as well. It's important to accept that to do it well it's generally much more expensive than just buying something commercial, resale value is often less than nil (and also illegal here in the US at least), and it's just a huge time suck. But yes, one can buy an ICEpower module and throw it in a box with a preamp with sufficient output capacity, and if all goes well it'll make noise.😉

I've been wondering about an ICE amp; I was at a car show and some of them were kicking out ridiculous bass - I was thinking my bass pedals could do with something like that.