Help me to find a new amp

[hpc364]

Hi !

 

I've got a Rumble 100W first generation, it's a heavy amp, I like it but I'm getting old, if there weren't new light powerful amps I wouldn't feel so old.

 

This is my request : I play a 5 string bass and the double bass, I mostly play jazz, I play in a big band, sometimes duets and trios, it depends. I also play the guitar (7 string guitar) in a jazz style.

 

First I was thinking about a head and a cab then I saw MarkBass and PJB amps... I don't want an AER, not because they are bad but because they are expensive.

 

The Rumble is good but my volume is always at 10 or 20 % above it's too much except on the double bass, it gives a very decent sound.

 

PJB, MicroBass, they seem to be very good but some say that head and cab are better.

 

I saw little heads (Bam200 and Gnome) but the cabs that come with these heads maybe don't have enough low end, maybe I'm wrong.

 

So... What is the best ? A little great combo or a tiny head combined with a PJB cab ?

 

There are many reviews on the net but they play two notes, a pentatonic, some slap, some pick playing and then they say bye bye.

 

Sorry for my English, I'm not from the UK.

 

I don't play in heavy bands but I wonder if a little great combo would be enough for a big band, a big band is not as loud as a rock band and when the bass is soloing, everyone shuts up, I wish they shut up.

[Geek99]

Your English is just fine- I’ve seen native speakers write much worse content 

 

I recommend the tc electronic bh250 plus a small cabinet. Cheap on eBay. 
very loud and it can be used without the cab as a headphone amp, and has an auxiliary IN

 

https://www.tcelectronic.com/product.html?modelCode=0707-ABZ

[lemmywinks]

The more capable PJB stuff isn't particularly light, especially for its size and output. The only one that floated my boat was the C8 Lite as it's light enough (18.5kg), very easy to move (wheels and a trolley handle built in) and can handle a low B at high volume. Can't speak for the other cabs but it's not particularly sensitive and likes a lot of power, my TC BH250 was running out of steam with it so I bought a BH800.

 

The newer Rumble combos are very light (16.6kg for thr 500w combo) so if you like the sounds of them but want lighter/more powerful then maybe that would be a good option?

[chris_b]

If weight is a problem get a separate head and cab.

[Franticsmurf]

1 hour ago, hpc364 said:

I saw little heads (Bam200 and Gnome) but the cabs that come with these heads maybe don't have enough low end, maybe I'm wrong.

I use a BAM 200 with either a Gnome 1x12" or one or two TE 1X10" cabs. Plenty of low end, especially with the Trace cabs.

[tauzero]

I've had both small combos and head/cab. For your needs you could try a Gallien-Krueger combo, either the MB150 or the 200MB which preceded it. I've used one with a 5-string and it was fine, and double bass players like them.

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, lemmywinks said:

 

 

The newer Rumble combos are very light (16.6kg for thr 500w combo) so if you like the sounds of them but want lighter/more powerful then maybe that would be a good option?

Yep, and for some reason which I don’t understand the 800w version is about 13kg - which is why I went for it rather than the 500, that saving of 13kg does make a difference.

[Chienmortbb]

Not many cabs are actually DB friendly. I know some manufacturers do take account of DB but most do not. Is it worth asking for options on the DB forum? You don't say where you live so the recommendation might change with geography.

[hpc364]

3 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Not many cabs are actually DB friendly. I know some manufacturers do take account of DB but most do not. Is it worth asking for options on the DB forum? You don't say where you live so the recommendation might change with geography.

Hi Dead Baby Dog ?

I'm from France, everything you've got in the UK we might have it too despite the Brexit.

[chris_b]

Get an amp and a cab that are loud enough and light enough. . . . and then get a DB friendly pre-amp, or a 2 channel pre-amp, one for DB and one for electric bass.

[hpc364]

Thanks all for answering, I know now more than I expected, it's silly how technology changed a lot.

Rumble amps are definitely not the way they used to be.

They are light but I'm looking for something more portable that can let me some space in my Fiat Panda (not the first version) even if I've never tried to put my double bass in yet, I'm confident, I can do it.

 

Why 800W ? With 100W it's largely enough for me or too much.

People don't understand how I get such a big sound with such an amp, they don't understand either why I've still got such a heavy amp.

 

I'm looking for something very neutral that makes something else than boom boom boom (15 inch speaker).

 

Despite what I'm saying this Rumble seems to be very very complete and interesting.

 

For big venues what I've got is largely enough (XRL output if it's not enough), I'm looking for something that is a bit powerful but not aggressive like if I were playing an acoustic instrument.

 

My Rumble makes boom boom boom and when I add treble it gives headaches.

[hpc364]

9 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Get an amp and a cab that are loud enough and light enough. . . . and then get a DB friendly pre-amp, or a 2 channel pre-amp, one for DB and one for electric bass.

PJB does that !

 

I was thinking about a Phil Jones PJ M7 Micro Bass Combo, no one says if they play on stage with.

About power they only talk about RMS, that means nothing about what they can do or can't do.

A big car with a tiny motor if the amp can't move the speaker.

 

My father used to work in the cinema and when I was talking to him about watts, he used to say : "RMS ? It means nothing to me ! That's good for the ones who know nothing... Those who want to impress with numbers... Talk me in W/m2 !"

 

[lemmywinks]

Some people on here analysed the response of the Bam200 and Warwick Gnome (200w version), they're pretty flat with the bass and treble rolled back a bit and the mids boosted so they may be suitable for doubling on electric and upright, especially if you stich a Fishman or something in front of it. The Bam200 was also quite popular for jazz guitarists as a clean micro amp, when I was looking at them a while ago there were quite a few threads on jazz guitar forums!

 

The smaller PJB combos are usually used for very quiet gigs, home practice and teaching. I think for gigging you'd be looking at a C4 cab (or a pair of C2) at least. A BG-400 would probably be a more suitable dual channel, low volume gigging combo, 18kg so not superlight though.

[hpc364]

1 hour ago, lemmywinks said:

Some people on here analysed the response of the Bam200 and Warwick Gnome (200w version), they're pretty flat with the bass and treble rolled back a bit and the mids boosted so they may be suitable for doubling on electric and upright, especially if you stich a Fishman or something in front of it. The Bam200 was also quite popular for jazz guitarists as a clean micro amp, when I was looking at them a while ago there were quite a few threads on jazz guitar forums!

 

The smaller PJB combos are usually used for very quiet gigs, home practice and teaching. I think for gigging you'd be looking at a C4 cab (or a pair of C2) at least. A BG-400 would probably be a more suitable dual channel, low volume gigging combo, 18kg so not superlight though.

Sorry for my ignorance but C2 and C4 are made with 16 ohm speakers.

So I guess that C4 might be two C2, if it's the case, it's just +3 dB : on stage it has got some "sound spacing" but for the audience it might be nothing.

 

I think that to make the PJB C2 (8 Ohms) sing a 250-300 W (4 Ohms) amp is needed.

Edited Sunday at 14:04 by hpc364

[lemmywinks]

33 minutes ago, hpc364 said:

Sorry for my ignorance but C2 and C4 are made with 16 ohm speakers.

So I guess that C4 might be two C2, if it's the case, it's just +3 dB : on stage it has got some "sound spacing" but for the audience it might be nothing.

 

The C2 and C4 are both 8ohm cabs, the C8 is/was available in 4 or 8 ohm variants.

 

C series all use the 5" drivers, mine is the 4ohm C8L with the neo speakers and can very loud, like I said quite power hungry though. 

[hpc364]

It makes me understand that combos are really well made.

[hpc364]

Thanks !

 

In order to avoid crazy combinations between heads and cabs, I will probably buy a PJB combo.

 

No !!! The MarkBass 801 sounds more interesting and simple !!!

Edited Sunday at 16:31 by hpc364

[SamIAm]

4 hours ago, hpc364 said:

I will probably buy a PJB combo.

I've ended up with a PJB Bass CUB Pro (BG-120), 120w into its 2x5 drivers, 240w if I connect an external cab too ... even on its own it is well loud! (Tho I do not play with a drummer)

It has a 5 band eq, f/x send & return and DI out and is kind(ish) to my back at 7.6kg

Love it!

Sam x

[Woodinblack]

13 hours ago, hpc364 said:

I saw little heads (Bam200 and Gnome) but the cabs that come with these heads maybe don't have enough low end, maybe I'm wrong.

 

1 hour ago, SamIAm said:

I've ended up with a PJB Bass CUB Pro (BG-120), 120w into its 2x5 drivers, 240w if I connect an external cab too ... even on its own it is well loud! (Tho I do not play with a drummer)

 

Having tried both a PJB Bass Cub and BAM200 (and by definition also an elf as the stats are the same) running into a 10" speaker, the PJB isn't even in the same ballpark volume wise. I wouldn't have a concern playing with a band in a pub with a Bam and my 10" Gnome cab, which is what I did a few weeks back (although I have PA backup if it wasn't enough). I wouldn't use the PJB in a band situation, maybe an acoustic duo without a drummer. 

[lemmywinks]

General rule of thumb over on TB regarding the PJB 5" drivers is that 4 of them will match a very good 1x10 and 8 of them will match a very good 2x10. Seeing as you'd probably need to add a C2 to the Cub Pro to play with a relatively quiet drummer you might as well just go for a used BG400 or even better the new BG450 if you don't need the two channel preamp. You can still get them in red which is the best colour.

 

 

I don't think they offer the neo speakers in standalone cabs any more which is a shame as they do save a fair bit of weight.

 

[tinyd]

I have a Gnome amp (the smallest one) and a PJB C2 cab and it's loud enough for jazz gigs with drums, keys, guitar, singer in pub/restaurant. 

[Chienmortbb]

8 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

General rule of thumb over on TB regarding the PJB 5" drivers is that 4 of them will match a very good 1x10 and 8 of them will match a very good 2x10. Seeing as you'd probably need to add a C2 to the Cub Pro to play with a relatively quiet drummer you might as well just go for a used BG400 or even better the new BG450 if you don't need the two channel preamp. You can still get them in red which is the best colour.

 

 

I don't think they offer the neo speakers in standalone cabs any more which is a shame as they do save a fair bit of weight.

 

I have never heard any real low end from a PJB cab. Is it just me?

[lemmywinks]

56 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I have never heard any real low end from a PJB cab. Is it just me?

 

I have the C8L and it can do big lows on a 5 string with no issues, not much experience of the smaller stuff at any sort of volume although the C8 is still a small cab.

 

I'm not really on board with the PJB ethos of adding more cabs for more volume as part of a modular setup, I'd much rather have just one compact box that can handle what I need.

[tinyd]

Not sure about how much low end is required. I find for jazz gigs on DB you don't really want that "feel it in your gut" low end anyway so the PJB works well. But if I wanted more of that kind of thing I'd probably match the Gnome/BAM with the TE Bassbox 110 cab instead (which is still very light)

[Dan Dare]

8 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

I'm not really on board with the PJB ethos of adding more cabs for more volume as part of a modular setup, I'd much rather have just one compact box that can handle what I need.

 

As a long time PJB owner/user, I think it better to add more cabs for more volume if you want clean sound. Having said that, if you're running a C8, that's pretty capable on its own in a lot of situations. It should deal with most pub/club gigs, unless the band is stupidly loud. It is, however, quite heavy and the OP wants lightness, so I'd suggest two PJB 4x5 cabs will be a lot easier to transport.

 

I have two C4s and three 4Bs and use two or more depending on how loud I need to be. Being quite inefficient, they do take a bit of driving, although the manufacturers rating of 400w per cab is a bit optimistic, imho. I'd say 300 is nearer the mark. I have a couple of 2 ohm capable heads, so can use up to three without adding additional amplification. Technically, I suppose I could use four, but I like to err on the safe side. I've not needed to use all five together so far.

 

The thing I like most about them, apart from the clean sound, is that they are very immediate. When I play through more conventional cabs, they feel a bit slow/plodding by comparison. As the OP also wants to use them for 7 string jazz guitar, I reckon they will do that job very well. I play a bit of jazz guitar at home through one of mine and it sounds good.