From other instruments to double bass

[hpc364]

Hi !

 

I want to share my experience, I've been playing the double bass for 7 months, a lot of people say it's a difficult instrument, some bass players don't dare to play the double bass because they believe them.

If you prepare yourself to play the double bass as a bass player you can use exclusively the double bass fingering on your bass guitar (except thumb position), I've done that way for 15 years (after having tried an EUB) before doubling on the double bass.

 

I don't think it's a difficult instrument, it also depends of what you want to do with, if you're coming from jazz or kind of and you want to play classical, it will be tricky even if the best things I learnt come from Edouard Nanny Method (yes, arco playing).

So, if you read somewhere it's difficult and don't have kind of support on various forums you participate, don't read bad comments and sarcasms, just do it, play it, they won't do it for you maybe they've never done it for themselves.

 

It's a very nice instrument, not so difficult, I don't mean you will play everything at the first time but with some practise you will understand the most important bases with your own experience and more because you know what a neck is !

[Beedster]

Mmm, that’s not so much your experience but tour opinion. No traditional instruments are ‘easy’ (while some digital instruments will produce a decent performance with little skill or effort), but the same equation applies in nearly every case; all other things being equal, the more you play the better you get 👍

[hpc364]

6 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Mmm, that’s not so much your experience but tour opinion. No traditional instruments are ‘easy’ (while some digital instruments will produce a decent performance with little skill or effort), but the same equation applies in nearly every case; all other things being equal, the more you play the better you get 👍

Where does my opinion come from ?

[Beedster]

10 minutes ago, hpc364 said:

Where does my opinion come from ?

You’ve been playing seven months and you seem be be talking as if you’ve been playing all your life. I’ve played DB 20 years, cello and saxophone before that, and play guitar and bass. None are easy, I’d rank double bass as by far the hardest. If the sentiment of your post is ‘Don’t let people put you off’ I agree. But I disagree that Double Bass is in any way easy

[hpc364]

2 minutes ago, Beedster said:

You’ve been playing seven months and you seem be be talking as if you’ve been playing all your life. I’ve played DB 20 years, cello and saxophone before that, and play guitar and bass. None are easy, I’d rank double bass as by far the hardest. If the sentiment of your post is ‘Don’t let people put you off’ I agree. But I disagree that Double Bass is in any way easy

I've never said it was easy. Not difficult doesn't mean it's easy, it means it's largely possible.

As a saxophonist, try the trumpet, you will know what I mean when I say it's not so difficult.

[Burns-bass]

2 hours ago, Beedster said:

You’ve been playing seven months and you seem be be talking as if you’ve been playing all your life. I’ve played DB 20 years, cello and saxophone before that, and play guitar and bass. None are easy, I’d rank double bass as by far the hardest. If the sentiment of your post is ‘Don’t let people put you off’ I agree. But I disagree that Double Bass is in any way easy

I also reckon that attempting to apply electric bass fingering to DB is a recipe for disaster in the long term. If you’re not using arm weight to pull the strings down you’re using your fingers and thumb which, if done over time, will really cause you issues.

 

Love your enthusiasm but like all new experiences, it’s often easier with an experienced guide who can help you avoid common problems, pitfalls qnd potential disasters. 
 

Basically, get a few lessons. 

[hpc364]

4 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

I also reckon that attempting to apply electric bass fingering to DB is a recipe for disaster in the long term. If you’re not using arm weight to pull the strings down you’re using your fingers and thumb which, if done over time, will really cause you issues.

 

Love your enthusiasm but like all new experiences, it’s often easier with an experienced guide who can help you avoid common problems, pitfalls qnd potential disasters. 
 

Basically, get a few lessons. 

Yeah, I know what a disaster is.

[NickA]

Double bass is physically hard work...you have to keep in training.  And you won't go from root and fifth, or even Donna Lee, on electric to Bottesini on double bass with any speed.  The only real similarity is where the notes are.  But people shouldn't be put off by that. 

 

If you've been using simandl fingering on your electric, then the transfer is not too hard.  If you've been using bunch of bananas on your electric, that transfers too...so long as you never want to be any good on either.  I use ofof on electric and that doesn't work on DB at all.

 

But I'd been playing the cello for 20 years before I seriously tried the bass and that was a lot more applicable than the 10 years I'd had an electric.

 

It's not SO hard to get some notes out .. but the further you go on either instrument, the more different they get.  30 years on I'm still scratching the surface.

 

@hpc364:  what kind of stuff are you playing?  How far are you intending to go with it?

[hpc364]

4 minutes ago, NickA said:

Double bass is physically hard work...you have to keep in training.  And you won't go from root and fifth, or even Donna Lee, on electric to Bottesini on double bass with any speed.  The only real similarity is where the notes are.  But people shouldn't be put off by that. 

 

If you've been using simandl fingering on your electric, then the transfer is not too hard.  If you've been using bunch of bananas on your electric, that transfers too...so long as you never want to be any good on either.  I use ofof on electric and that doesn't work on DB at all.

 

But I'd been playing the cello for 20 years before I seriously tried the bass and that was a lot more applicable than the 10 years I'd had an electric.

 

It's not SO hard to get some notes out .. but the further you go on either instrument, the more different they get.  30 years on I'm still scratching the surface.

 

@hpc364:  what kind of stuff are you playing?  How far are you intending to go with it?

I play simple stuff, only jazz, mostly walking basses, some themes I try to play correctly in thumb position, sometimes solo playing with some 10th or 7th in order to emulate chords.

Nothing fancy but it works, they want me to rehearsal or to play gigs with but I don't feel like going out with yet, my amp is too heavy.

It's possible if people come to my house.

I said yes for a trio but I don't know if my instrument can be put in my car (Fiat Panda), I guess it can, there is no reason.

[neilp]

Don't expect picking up a good technique on double bass to be easy. I've been playing since I was 15, studied at the Royal College of Music, played in the National Youth Orchestra, and I still find the bass far harder than any other instrument that I play. You can get by and have fun, by all means, but that's not the same as really playing. Don't be put off, but expect to put in the work (for more than 7 months) or accept a minimal standard of competence

[hpc364]

8 minutes ago, neilp said:

Don't expect picking up a good technique on double bass to be easy. I've been playing since I was 15, studied at the Royal College of Music, played in the National Youth Orchestra, and I still find the bass far harder than any other instrument that I play. You can get by and have fun, by all means, but that's not the same as really playing. Don't be put off, but expect to put in the work (for more than 7 months) or accept a minimal standard of competence

I learnt to swim into the water.

[NickA]

I get my 400w pjb rig, a double bass and an electric bass in a Skoda citigo!  You'll manage!

 

Some solo classical stuff I play goes into thumb position but my usual walking bass lines rarely do and I'm no fan of jazz double bass solos either.  Orchestral parts rarely hit beyond G octave.

 

I've found playing classical bass music quite useful as it forces me to play things I'd otherwise not ( thumb positions included) makes you think about positions and fingerings and requires good intonation; which all makes for better jazz playing.  The Marcello sonatas are are good starting point ( grade 6 / 7) and I've a book of "solos for the double bass player" to hack away at. The repertoire is thin compared to that for the cello, but it's good for the soul (and technique) even if the music isn't that great!  It got me up to a ceiling that I needed a couple of lessons to get through... and might need a few more very soon.

 

For all the neighsaying, it sounds to me like you're doing ok!  Probably hit one of those ceilings at some point... then find a teacher or fellow bassist to help make the next step.  Meanwhile ...Jam on.

Edited September 21 by NickA

[Beer of the Bass]

There are pitfalls to be avoided with physical approach which mean it's best not to just assume you can hop across from electric bass without further input. The right teacher is always going to be a more direct route, but I feel like the "no discussion, just Get A Teacher" dogma of the in-crowd on a certain US bass forum ignores that not everyone lives in a large city with suitable music professionals offering lessons. And not everyone feels inspired to work on classical music.

You can pick up a lot by using books, watching great bassists and talking to other bassists informally, and there are some good video lessons now that will at least get you off to a physically safe start. If you can find the right teacher in your area who you can afford, go for it, but don't let it stop you if you can't.

[Burns-bass]

14 minutes ago, Beer of the Bass said:

There are pitfalls to be avoided with physical approach which mean it's best not to just assume you can hop across from electric bass without further input. The right teacher is always going to be a more direct route, but I feel like the "no discussion, just Get A Teacher" dogma of the in-crowd on a certain US bass forum ignores that not everyone lives in a large city with suitable music professionals offering lessons. And not everyone feels inspired to work on classical music.

You can pick up a lot by using books, watching great bassists and talking to other bassists informally, and there are some good video lessons now that will at least get you off to a physically safe start. If you can find the right teacher in your area who you can afford, go for it, but don't let it stop you if you can't.

It’s a fair point and the Discover Double Bass stuff is fantastically helpful.

 

I hope the OP understands the the responses here are all people trying to help and offer the experience of many years of epic failures, dodgy gigs, painful fingers and eyewaterinlgy bad intonation (this is all me, by the way).

7 months in Id already started gigging though, and now have a lot of gigs if I want them.

[hpc364]

@Burns-bass Don't worry I know discover the double bass, Cole Davis, François Rabbath, not in person but I know who they are.

I know what to watch, if there weren't internet, I would probably be stuck with a teacher instead of playing with people.

Not a lot of double bassists around me but they are very supportive, they say it took me time to understand I needed to play the double bass.

[hpc364]

About classical methods, I think they are the best way to practise, everything is clear if it's simple stuff, quite nothing for you but enough information for me.

When I watch classical double bass videos, I figure out they are very open-minded, they don't live in a box.

I tried to play violin and a great teacher gave me a lesson one day, I was showing him the way I played, he said I was wrong to follow the rules about the 3rd position since I was already playing a string instrument... And he said that life was too short to follow all the rules, they are good for kids and people who don't know what they want to do, basics for basics without any kind of goal, it's useless if you know what you want to do and already play music.

That was interesting.

 

A double bass teacher said I should try to play with all fingers, I try it sometimes but I'm not convinced even if it works.

It works for him, he had taught the double bass in a conservatory for more than 30 years.

 

I do prefer the rules even if it's better to play the way it works for me.

Life is short ! You want to learn how to swim ? Go into the water, you will see everyone can swim.

 

About the sentence "get a teacher", yes parrots can talk, yes they can talk but it's basically what they can do in the context.

That's the classical formula when you don't understand what you read : "Get a teacher !"

 

[Beedster]

6 minutes ago, hpc364 said:

Go into the water, you will see everyone can swim.

 

 

Check out the statistics for drowning 👍

 

I would say that especially in the case of musical instruments - as is the case with sport and other performing arts - those techniques that require strength and endurance as well as precision are best learned with some strategy and some expert feedback. Swimming is a sport you chose to make analogy to and one I know well so here goes! One of the most frequent reasons for injury in swimming is poorly learned and then automated technique that places excessive stress, then strain, then damage, onto the smaller joints of the body (in swimming the shoulders, elbows, and even wrists and sometimes fingers although the latter is rare). Further, all other things being equal, especially size and aerobic capacity, the factor that discriminates one swimmer from another in competition is how well they learned and refined and rehearsed their technique. A good technicians with low power ALWAYS beats a poor technician with high power, swimming with poor technique is uneconomic of energy and damaging anatomically.

 

One of the reasons I argued above that double bass is not an easy instrument is because, like swimming, it's very easy to get in the pool and with a bit of effort and knowledge, make your way to the other end by paddling. Swimming is therefore, in your terms, not difficult. But is the self-taught single length going to lead to scalability and refinement, that is swimming many lengths economically (economy of movement in swimming and in double bass playing are equally important). No, categorically no. There are NO self-taught swimmers winning Olympic medals, or even swimming at local competitive level. 

 

Can you teach yourself to swim? Yes you can. Will that teaching provide you with the best potential to develop. No, certainly not. Swimming is not difficult, but swimming well is VERY difficult. It's the same with double bass

 

Keep the conversation going @hpc364, it's a good chat and as Lawrie @Burns-bass said, we're all here to help, even those of us who may not always give that impression 👍

[hpc364]

8 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

Check out the statistics for drowning 👍

 

I would say that especially in the case of musical instruments - as is the case with sport and other performing arts - those techniques that require strength and endurance as well as precision are best learned with some strategy and some expert feedback. Swimming is a sport you chose to make analogy to and one I know well so here goes! One of the most frequent reasons for injury in swimming is poorly learned and then automated technique that places excessive stress, then strain, then damage, onto the smaller joints of the body (in swimming the shoulders, elbows, and even wrists and sometimes fingers although the latter is rare). Further, all other things being equal, especially size and aerobic capacity, the factor that discriminates one swimmer from another in competition is how well they learned and refined and rehearsed their technique. A good technicians with low power ALWAYS beats a poor technician with high power, swimming with poor technique is uneconomic of energy and damaging anatomically.

 

One of the reasons I argued above that double bass is not an easy instrument is because, like swimming, it's very easy to get in the pool and with a bit of effort and knowledge, make your way to the other end by paddling. Swimming is therefore, in your terms, not difficult. But is the self-taught single length going to lead to scalability and refinement, that is swimming many lengths economically (economy of movement in swimming and in double bass playing are equally important). No, categorically no. There are NO self-taught swimmers winning Olympic medals, or even swimming at local competitive level. 

 

Can you teach yourself to swim? Yes you can. Will that teaching provide you with the best potential to develop. No, certainly not. Swimming is not difficult, but swimming well is VERY difficult. It's the same with double bass

 

Keep the conversation going @hpc364, it's a good chat and as Lawrie @Burns-bass said, we're all here to help, even those of us who may not always give that impression 👍

Yes, learning how to swim out of the water helps a lot to avoid drowning.

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, hpc364 said:

Yes, learning how to swim out of the water helps a lot to avoid drowning.

 

Actually it does, when the basics of swimming technique are taught on land it accelerates skill acquisition once in the water 👍

[Burns-bass]

2 minutes ago, hpc364 said:

Yes, learning how to swim out of the water helps a lot to avoid drowning.

 

You’ve initiated a conversation here and people have offered advice and a view point that differs from yours. Your hubris is great.

 

There are two ways to do everything: passably and properly. 

 

I’d politely suggest your 7 months experience, when compared with that of others here - many of whom have spent decades playing and do so professionally - doesn’t provide the evidence to support the assertion that DB is easy. Because it isn’t.

 

Applying electric bass technique to double bass is a bad idea for several reasons, which people have tried to explain.
 

It really isn’t a shortcut to anything but a bad sound, hand pain and long term damage. But their your hands, not mine so crack on.

 

[hpc364]

5 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

Actually it does, when the basics of swimming technique are taught on land it accelerates skill acquisition once in the water 👍

I wonder if there are people who learnt to walk without touching the floor or learnt how to eat without food.

I knew air guitar, but air double bass, that's really new for me.

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, hpc364 said:

I wonder if there are people who learnt to walk without touching the floor or learnt how to eat without food.

I knew air guitar, but air double bass, that's really new for me.

 

Have a good day 👍

[SimonK]

Interesting thread - so I'm a classical guitarist turned electric bass player, but on occasion played upright and felt it fairly straight forward to switch across. BUT I'm not claiming to have played upright well - just sufficient to jam along informally and definitely not playing anything classical or using a bow, but walking bass/jazz lines seem fine. The only two things I would say is I play (electric) fretless a lot so am very comfortable with not having frets, and only as of this thread have I realised that while on guitar my classical background has made me an uncompromising 1 finger per fret player, but on bass it seems I revert to "Simandl" just to avoid stretching anything, which might make upright bass a bit easier.

 

One of these days I want to buy an upright electric just for having another option more regularly, but wouldn't view it as a "different" instrument, just a variation.

[Burns-bass]

3 minutes ago, hpc364 said:

I wonder if there are people who learnt to walk without touching the floor or learnt how to eat without food.

I knew air guitar, but air double bass, that's really new for me.

Feels like 2005 again when posting stuff on the internet to get a rise out of people was risqué. 

[hpc364]

@Burns-bass I have never said it was easy ! I said "not so difficult", "not impossible".

My goal is not to play in a symphonic orchestra or to be a classical soloist.

It's about "fiddle bass" !