From other instruments to double bass

[Burns-bass]

6 minutes ago, hpc364 said:

@Burns-bass I have never said it was easy ! I said "not so difficult", "not impossible".

My goal is not to play in a symphonic orchestra or to be a classical soloist.

It's about "fiddle bass" !

No worries.

 

We’re all friends here and sorry if I came across as a stern and joyless. I just did what you are doing and it really messed up my hands until someone helped me to understand some of the basic principles.

 

As people have said, you can get a lesson, check out some videos or even ask a player or two in the real world.

 

Just be sure to protect your hands. You only get two.

[hpc364]

OK that was after three months of practicing the double bass, I had some problems but I solved them.

 

That was my first week, it strangely sounds better but the technique is completely wrong.

 

 

That was two months ago, I wanted to get an idea of how my bass sounded with my amp.

Sound and image are not synchronised.

 

For you it might sound like a rubbish bin or a nightmare.

But believe me or not, some people want me as a double bassist.

Where I live, all double bassists are busy.

 

Ah !!!

 

[Burns-bass]

2 hours ago, hpc364 said:

OK that was after three months of practicing the double bass, I had some problems but I solved them.

 

That was my first week, it strangely sounds better but the technique is completely wrong.

 

 

That was two months ago, I wanted to get an idea of how my bass sounded with my amp.

Sound and image are not synchronised.

 

For you it might sound like a rubbish bin or a nightmare.

But believe me or not, some people want me as a double bassist.

Where I live, all double bassists are busy.

 

Ah !!!

 

You seem to think everyone here is out to make you look silly or belittle your achievements.
 

That’s not the case at all.

 

Wish you well for the future.

 

 

 

 

[NickA]

6 hours ago, hpc364 said:

A double bass teacher said I should try to play with all fingers,

Must have had huge hands and/or a tiny bass!

 

Cello is several "frets" per finger so I adopted ofof on electric bass ( seemed a waste of a finger not to) then found simandl was an essential on  ( with a few rabbatt style pivots now and then) on my huge 4/4dB. Now wishing I'd learned simandl first as it's proving hard to change my e bass technique and I'm always over stretching octaves with index and ring finger, therehy wasting the pinkie.  The great thing about dB is the neck joint; when your thumb hits that you're up a 5th and from there on its 1,2,3 or thumb 1,2,3 ( anyone do thumb 1,2,3,4 like some advanced cellists?).  No such "here is where it changes" point on electric.  So they n some ways ebass really is harder to play 🙂.

 

Now going to spend an hour doing chromatic dB exercises as I have a lot of Mingus to play soon, and it's full of Ab Bb, Eb flats in half position.

[hpc364]

28 minutes ago, NickA said:

Must have had huge hands and/or a tiny bass!

 

Cello is several "frets" per finger so I adopted ofof on electric bass ( seemed a waste of a finger not to) then found simandl was an essential on  ( with a few rabbatt style pivots now and then) on my huge 4/4dB. Now wishing I'd learned simandl first as it's proving hard to change my e bass technique and I'm always over stretching octaves with index and ring finger, therehy wasting the pinkie.  The great thing about dB is the neck joint; when your thumb hits that you're up a 5th and from there on its 1,2,3 or thumb 1,2,3 ( anyone do thumb 1,2,3,4 like some advanced cellists?).  No such "here is where it changes" point on electric.  So they n some ways ebass really is harder to play 🙂.

 

Now going to spend an hour doing chromatic dB exercises as I have a lot of Mingus to play soon, and it's full of Ab Bb, Eb flats in half position.

Four finger technique is easier in half-position because you can put your thumb at the right place in order to get more flexibility, in block position it's different because you cannot put your thumb at the place you want, some are already in thumb position instead of block position.

I tried both, the "normal" way works better for me.

Of course to play F# or the octave on G string, I use my 3rd finger. You can also use the thumb to play E then Eb E F F# (T 1 2 3) and D Eb E F the same way.

 

Four finger technique, I sometimes try but it's a mix between Simandl and Billé.

So I stay on Simandl, it's the simplest thing.

 

Ironically I'm relearning to play with all fingers on the bass guitar.

Edited September 22 by hpc364

[NickA]

43 minutes ago, hpc364 said:

Four finger technique is easier in half-position because you can put your thumb at the right place

No, you've lost me there 😂.  I haven't a hope of using all four fingers anywhere near the nut on a dB.

 

44 minutes ago, hpc364 said:

Of course to play F# or the octave on G string, I use my 3rd finger.

My bass has a (lovely imo) Eb neck. F# can be an extended 4th finger. ( spot the cellist).  Though G is 3rd finger

 

One of the great things about dB is that they are all different sizes and shapes, there is no one method of playing them.  Heck, there are even 2 (or 3, counting the weighted sort) kinds of bow.  So much variety.

[hpc364]

12 minutes ago, NickA said:

No, you've lost me there 😂.  I haven't a hope of using all four fingers anywhere near the nut on a dB.

 

My bass has a (lovely imo) Eb neck. F# can be an extended 4th finger. ( spot the cellist).  Though G is 3rd finger

 

One of the great things about dB is that they are all different sizes and shapes, there is no one method of playing them.  Heck, there are even 2 (or 3, counting the weighted sort) kinds of bow.  So much variety.

Yes !

F G Ab

Billé 1 3 4 with pivot (very weak)

 

Play F# with 2 like Simandl

 

It only works with chromatism...

 

Big problems appear between 2nd and 3rd fingers...

 

I don't like Billé, it's not comfortable, it's a weak fingering because there is a little more stretching between 3rd and 4th fingers.

 

So, Simandl is easier.

[neilp]

From your videos, I can se you've made some really good progress, well done! Now might be the time to make some tweaks with the help of a good teacher, to solve some of the visible issues which will hold you back or cause problems later. Please don't react defensively, we all need help with left hand technique and from your comments I'd suggest you look again at Simandl and listen with a more critical ear. In the lower positions the intonation issues can easily go unnoticed! I wish you joy in your journey, and the best advice I can give is at least consider the advice that's given. 30 years gives a different perspective than 7 months!

[tinyd]

There seem to be a couple of things going on with this thread. There can definitely be a bit of a "joyless" approach taken by some experienced players towards people starting out that says that you'll only get decent after years of rigourous technique and lessons (I haven't heard anybody on Basschat take this approach btw). And then are other people who think that you should get a bass and just start playing and having fun. The two are not mutually exclusive, and as somebody who is self-taught (in the sense of having virtually no in-person lessons) I definitely think that just playing is possible. However, bad technique on DB more than most instruments can definitely hold you back - both in terms of causing pain/injury, but also (as @neilp points out above) in terms of playing in tune.

I'm not as good a player as I'd be if I'd adopted a more consistent/rigorous approach to playing and practicing, and I've had several points where I've had to re-learn and ditch bad habits (particularly after watching better players than myself in person or online). But I've always enjoyed the journey and so I guess what I'm saying is that DB is both fun AND challenging at the same time, but it's definitely worth paying attention to getting some of the basics right when it comes to technique. And there are people here on Basschat that can definitely help with this....
 

[hpc364]

On 22/09/2024 at 16:31, Burns-bass said:

You seem to think everyone here is out to make you look silly or belittle your achievements.
 

That’s not the case at all.

 

Wish you well for the future.

 

 

 

 

I do think it because people prefer reading and writing than listening, you listened a bit to what I did, so I really thank you.

We've got so many great players and instructors on YouTube, that's a chance.

It helps a lot.

Do you know him ?

He mixed all fingerings.

I would like to know your opinion.

 

[Burns-bass]

If you’re getting the sound you want, that’s the only thing that matters.

[hpc364]

This is the way I play now even if I don't practise the way I used to (I've got a job and I play other instruments).

It has been made without thinking, for sure I should have thought before doing it.

I think everyone knows the tune, it is not the easiest one even if everyone wants to learn and play it.

You will hear all the problems I've got, I'm sorry, there is no fancy things there.

I have to confess you are cool people.

 

 

 

[NickA]

10 hours ago, tinyd said:

, and as somebody who is self-taught

Ahead of you there ...I had TWO whole bass lessons.

 

There's so much stuff on line now, I may not have needed those.

 

But I do get a constant stream of advice and critique from the lady who sits next to me at orchestra 😂

[neilp]

On 25/09/2024 at 13:23, hpc364 said:

I do think it because people prefer reading and writing than listening, you listened a bit to what I did, so I really thank you.

We've got so many great players and instructors on YouTube, that's a chance.

It helps a lot.

Do you know him ?

He mixed all fingerings.

I would like to know your opinion.

 

He's obviously enjoying his playing, so that's great. If you're looking for a player to model your left hand on, please look elsewhere. His intonation is shaky, precisely because of the limitations of his left hand. He's clearly found ways to "play around" the technical issues, but it's so much easier to do a good job in a band if your tuning is secure. Absolutely the number one issue for bassists, me included!

[hpc364]

3 hours ago, neilp said:

He's obviously enjoying his playing, so that's great. If you're looking for a player to model your left hand on, please look elsewhere. His intonation is shaky, precisely because of the limitations of his left hand. He's clearly found ways to "play around" the technical issues, but it's so much easier to do a good job in a band if your tuning is secure. Absolutely the number one issue for bassists, me included!

I am scared of what you could think about Ron Carter...

You will say it's Ron Carter and it was easy for him because he was already Ron Carter before he played the bass and that's why he recorded so many albums.

I'm kidding but I understand now how a double bassist mind works.

😜

OK it's Ron Carter !

Edited September 28 by hpc364

[Beer of the Bass]

I always think Charlie Haden is the prime example for "sounds great, culturally important, just don't look at his hands".

[NickA]

On 25/09/2024 at 13:23, hpc364 said:

He mixed all fingerings.

Right hand not great either.   Manages to make a nice old( German?) bass sound like a thumpy laminate.

 

I'm not sure enough emphasis is put on the plucking hand.  Classical bass teachers seem to know nothing about it; pizz being "unimportant". My orchestra friends always pluck too low down the strings and straight across them, resulting in a thuddy "plonk".  I went to a National Youth Orchestra concert a bit back and their whole bass ection did the 90o across the strings pluck, but with two fingers and well over the fingerboard..probably this is the sound that classical composers expect when they write a bit of bass pizz into their symphonies etc; but it won't help us play Jazz!

 

Ron looks pretty good to me, both left and right hands; but his intonation on "piccolo" is awful, quite some hubris to release that.

 

Edited September 28 by NickA

[hpc364]

8 minutes ago, NickA said:

Right hand not great either.   Manages to make a nice old( German?) bass sound like a thumpy laminate.

 

I'm not sure enough emphasis is put on the plucking hand.  Classical bass teachers seem to know nothing about it; pizz being "unimportant". My orchestra friends always pluck too low down the strings and straight across them, resulting in a thuddy "plonk".  I went to a National Youth Orchestra concert a bit back and their whole bass ection did the 90o across the strings pluck, but with two fingers and well over the fingerboard..probably this is the sound that classical composers expect when they write a bit of bass pizz into their symphonies etc; but it won't help us play Jazz!

 

Hum, the community should teach him how to play the double bass, maybe he is not as experimented as I believed.

 

[NickA]

We'll pull anyone's playing to bits here!  At least you know you're not being victimised 😂😂

Edited September 28 by NickA

[SimonK]

So I've been idly following this thread thinking there are a lot of unnecessarily grumpy cork sniffers out there, myself being of the school that if it sounds good and you are having fun who cares! But then the comment someone made above RE playing in an orchestra made me realise how that is something I would never do as my intonation relies on hearing very clearly ideally using an amp or monitor. I imagine the importance of technique in this situation is somewhat more acute than a small ensemble as I'm guessing you need to be able to trust that you are playing the note that you think you are even if you may not be able to hear it so well!

Edited September 28 by SimonK

[hpc364]

In ordinary life, double bassists are actually very cool ("Take the double bass, I show you the fingerings, it's just bigger, do it, you can !"), I don't doubt you are.

But sometimes, maybe I don't clearly understand English, in the internet they seem to react like if they caught the "guitar diva syndrome".

You know what I mean.

I admit you are cool and you have humour, British mind ?

I'm from a country where Scottish, Welsh, even people from Ulster and the Republic of Ireland are English.

Do you guess where I'm from ?

 

[SimonK]

12 minutes ago, hpc364 said:

In ordinary life, double bassists are actually very cool ("Take the double bass, I show you the fingerings, it's just bigger, do it, you can !"), I don't doubt you are.

But sometimes, maybe I don't clearly understand English, in the internet they seem to react like if they caught the "guitar diva syndrome".

You know what I mean.

I admit you are cool and you have humour, British mind ?

I'm from a country where Scottish, Welsh, even people from Ulster and the Republic of Ireland are English.

Do you guess where I'm from ?

 

 

 

[NickA]

1 hour ago, SimonK said:

my intonation relies on hearing very clearly

I remember my first orchestra rehearsal, on my 1/2 size cello, aged 9.  Quite an experience to play a note and not hear it!  These days I'm used to it ...if you hear yourself too clearly, you probably miss counted and came in at the wrong place! Plus when you know someone is out of tune but aren't sure if it's you or the bloke sitting next to you ...and I'm frequently told off by our principal bassist for over-playing.  Tuning is indeed considered as very important in orchestras ..... in my jazz band I'm always asking if we can tune up, and get funny looks; at orchestra no-one plays till everyone is tuned to the oboe's A.

 

However, micro-tuning corrections are part of the skill.  Fine tuning analysis of very good musicians shows that they also pitch correct ...they just do it much faster than us semi skilled amateurs!

 

 

[hpc364]

49 minutes ago, NickA said:

I remember my first orchestra rehearsal, on my 1/2 size cello, aged 9.  Quite an experience to play a note and not hear it!  These days I'm used to it ...if you hear yourself too clearly, you probably miss counted and came in at the wrong place! Plus when you know someone is out of tune but aren't sure if it's you or the bloke sitting next to you ...and I'm frequently told off by our principal bassist for over-playing.  Tuning is indeed considered as very important in orchestras ..... in my jazz band I'm always asking if we can tune up, and get funny looks; at orchestra no-one plays till everyone is tuned to the oboe's A.

 

However, micro-tuning corrections are part of the skill.  Fine tuning analysis of very good musicians shows that they also pitch correct ...they just do it much faster than us semi skilled amateurs!

 

 

In an orchestra if everyone played perfectly in tune you wouldn't get the same impact.

Add the traditional classical vibrato...

Do you know how flanger and chorus effects work ?

[hpc364]

Recording oneself and listening to the result help more than imagining it sounds good because your teacher and orchestra buddies said it sounded good.

Sharing it entirely is another story...

My mother has always said I was beautiful and clever, well... She's my mother.