Band-related PA problems

[BigRedX]

11 hours ago, TimR said:

I've never been paid to play originals. So getting the band to pay for the PA from gig income becomes a non starter. 😂

 

Why not? Did you choose to play for free? Did you not think to ask to be paid? Or were your band simply not entertaining enough for the promotors or venue to consider you worth paying?

 

Unless my band(s) had deliberately chosen to play for free, we'd always be paid at least enough to cover the expenses of playing and promoting the gig. This is from when I first started gigging in 1980 right up to the present day. In those early days when we were all either students or unemployed, lots of the gigs that we played would have been impossible to do if there was no payment involved due to equipment hire or travel costs.

 

Also based on my experience, I'm still not convinced that covers gigs pay as well for the time effort and general expenses that need to be put in compared with a well organised originals band.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

Also based on my experience, I'm still not convinced that covers gigs pay as well for the time effort and general expenses that need to be put in compared with a well organised originals band.

 

Back in the 90s, the smaller venues we played (pubs and clubs) didn't differentiate between original and cover bands.

 

Today it varies hugely on the status of bands.

 

A recent originals night with four local bands (most only have about 30 minutes of material apparently) paid £60 each. House PA was provided. The motivation for the event was partly getting a decent sized audience together for bands used to playing to small groups of fans. (Alt-rocktpop rock)

 

In contrast one of my bands BL also plays in an indie rock band with a following, have been on a bbc playlist and their last ep was no. 3 in the physical singles chart. When I saw them they packed a readonable sized venue.

 

To date they have have had to plough every penny made back into the band, despite getting a sizeable grant to cover recording the ep.

 

For a recent gig they had to borrow my other band's subs.

 

I can't find anyone wanting to start an originals band because people in my demographic mostly are motivated by playing to a good sized audience. Covering costs with income isn't an issue for most of us as we see gigging as a contribution to the cost of a hobby.

 

I can see that established bands can keep things going (I know a few people who make their living from touring and recording) but it is very dependent on their level of ambition, popularity and most of all, willngness to gig almost non-stop (one of them does over 300 gigs a year inbthe UK and USA).

[Dan Dare]

The major difference between covers and originals bands seems to be supply and demand.

 

I play in one of each. The covers band (mainly classic soul) gets many more bookings than the other. Without wishing to blow our collective trumpet, we're pretty decent. We're all experienced and know what we're doing, have high quality kit, etc. We do pubs, clubs, functions (weddings, parties, etc) and similar, nearly always get booked back and work once or twice a week on average. It could easily be more, but we've had to agree between ourselves to limit the number of gigs we do to avoid issues with clashes with family commitments and so on. Getting a decent fee for our efforts is no problem. Crucially, there are plenty of venues where we can play and which want to book us.

 

The originals band, which is just as good in terms of ability of the players, quality of material, etc, does maybe one a month if we're lucky. Fee is usually a couple of free drinks or non-existent. There are far fewer venues that put on originals acts and which will take a chance on an unknown quantity and it's a much harder sell to get into them. We have quality demos - audio and video - and a typical response from venues is "You're great, but we're not sure how you'll go down with our audience". They may want some kind of guarantee of how many people we'll bring in. That's fair enough. They're businesses and it has to be worth their while to open the doors, pay the staff and switch on the lights. We're up against dozens of other hopeful (and good) originals outfits eager to get their stuff in front of an audience and fighting for gigs in that limited number of venues.

 

I'm not complaining. Playing in an originals band is satisfying and enjoyable, but the potential to gig and make money is far smaller.

[synthaside]

Hopefully, I will be a voice of Hope in a Sea of Woe...  Our new singer Auditioned 4 weeks ago, were getting up to speed for our first gig mid-October... 
Pinged an advert into the band's WhatsApp for a used Yamaha PA, a little 500-watt Yamaha PAS, (powered tops 250 a side)b, She was purely after advice from us Amp knowers/havers... if this was sufficient power-wise to keep up
with the drums and amps considering our drummer is also light-handed this should be more than fine if not we'd make the guitarist turn down  ( Too many Valves)

She pulled the trigger and intends to store it too, absolute result  so not every singer is clueless on this front. 

[Blue_floyd20]

I'm probably late to the party on this. I'm in two bands 

Band 1, 3 piece; we have an arrangement where the PA (a decent Yamaha setup prob over £1000) was owned and paid for by our front man/Guitarist, and for each gig over a certain value myself and the drummer contribute £10 to the upkeep. It's a good arrangement, it means he isn't solely responsible for the costs of repairs or servicing. We all benefit from owning rather than hiring and if needed can run drums and bass through it without any issues. It also means any other bits and pieces such as DI boxes, lighting, cables, signs etc are bought from this buffer fund if there is a decent amount saved up. We all set up and break down the PA system at gigs.

Band 2, 4 piece; Cheapo setup with a xenyx mixer and G4M 10" active speakers (Prob £300) only used for vocals. Front man owns and is responsible for all PA equipment. No animosity there, he is happy with that and he will set up and break down the PA.

I'm pretty lucky - the no d--kh34d policy in both bands means none of this has ever been an issue and no one would propose something that was unreasonable.

 

[EssexBuccaneer]

7 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

 

Also based on my experience, I'm still not convinced that covers gigs pay as well for the time effort and general expenses that need to be put in compared with a well organised originals band.

 

I suspect that your experience is far from the norm.

[TimR]

52 minutes ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

 

I suspect that your experience is far from the norm.

 

Indeed. I think an originals band would have to be in pretty high demand to be pulling £800+ a gig. 

 

And the amount of 'preparation' we do for a gig depends on when and how often we gig. We haven't rehearsed since our last gig 6 weeks ago. The originals band I'm in seems to meet weekly. The covers band rehearse at someone's house, the originals pay for rehearsal space.

 

Outlay for covers band this year - petrol to gigs, all recouped. 

Outlay for originals band close on £400 so far.

Edited September 30 by TimR

[PaulWarning]

it is possible to make more money from an originals band, obviously, but it depends how far up the food chain you are, initially, it cost money and a lot of effort, and most originals bands never get past that stage,  there's a lot more travelling invovled in an originals band, it needs dedication (and the right job) to travel 300 miles on a Friday to play a 30 minute slot to a handful of people, I think most of us have been there. I know I have.

[Lozz196]

Most def Paul, in my last band we were up & down the motorways pretty much every weekend. Admittedly we got to the point where we were making pretty decent money, although we put it all back into the business as it enabled us to play all over - Greece, Netherlands to name a couple - and everything, flights, hotels, ferries, all paid for by the band. Looking at their gigs nowadays I’d say they’re now further up the ladder than when I left, which is great, it’s hard work but it can be done.

[BigRedX]

2 hours ago, TimR said:

Indeed. I think an originals band would have to be in pretty high demand to be pulling £800+ a gig. 

 

That's not what I said (or even implied) and you know it.

 

2 hours ago, TimR said:

And the amount of 'preparation' we do for a gig depends on when and how often we gig. We haven't rehearsed since our last gig 6 weeks ago. The originals band I'm in seems to meet weekly. The covers band rehearse at someone's house, the originals pay for rehearsal space.

 

Outlay for covers band this year - petrol to gigs, all recouped. 

Outlay for originals band close on £400 so far.

 

To me that sounds like your originals band is doing it all wrong, or you covers band has some lucky breaks that allow you to skip some of the usual costs (like being able to rehearse at someone's house for free).

 

My originals band has had a good year so far, and while we may not be commanding £800+ a gig yet, we've had some very well paying ones which means that I've just been able to pay for a production run of 2 designs of T-shirts and limited edition CD single which will tide us over until the album comes out next year. We'll make a decent profit on this which will in turn pay for the production costs for the aforementioned album.

 

IMO if I can be in a band that can do this then anyone can. You just need to have the enthusiasm.

[PaulWarning]

18 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Most def Paul, in my last band we were up & down the motorways pretty much every weekend. Admittedly we got to the point where we were making pretty decent money, although we put it all back into the business as it enabled us to play all over - Greece, Netherlands to name a couple - and everything, flights, hotels, ferries, all paid for by the band. Looking at their gigs nowadays I’d say they’re now further up the ladder than when I left, which is great, it’s hard work but it can be done.

it's tough keeping it up, another band I know quite well, Hung Like Hanratty are doing well for themselves, but recently the bass player, drummer and guitarist have left. I suppose the final leap, where you can pack up your day job, is the hardest of all

[TimR]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

That's not what I said (or even implied) and you know it

 

The function band I was in didn't go out for less than that. £1600 for a wedding. 

The furthest we ever went for a gig was 100miles.

 

If you're in a pubs cover band, you'll be playing local gigs for around £300. You could do 4 gigs and write off the money to purchase a PA.

 

A lot of originals bands I see are pushing merchandise at the gigs and as far as I can see that's a good money spinner. I bought a t-shirt at the last gig I went to, £20, and I'll be wearing it out and about as it's a pretty nice design. But I'd not be counting that as 'being paid' for the gig. 

[PaulWarning]

3 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

The function band I was in didn't go out for less than that. £1600 for a wedding. 

The furthest we ever went for a gig was 100miles.

 

If you're in a pubs cover band, you'll be playing local gigs for around £300. You could do 4 gigs and write off the money to purchase a PA.

 

A lot of originals bands I see are pushing merchandise at the gigs and as far as I can see that's a good money spinner. I bought a t-shirt at the last gig I went to, £20, and I'll be wearing it out and about as it's a pretty nice design. But I'd not be counting that as 'being paid' for the gig. 

£20 for a no name band T shirt? bloody hell we're under charging, ours are a tenner 😃

[TimR]

39 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

£20 for a no name band T shirt? bloody hell we're under charging, ours are a tenner 😃

London prices. Still cheap, was less than 4 pints of beer. 

Edited September 30 by TimR

[Stub Mandrel]

38 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

£20 for a no name band T shirt? bloody hell we're under charging, ours are a tenner 😃

 

Can't remember what we charge, but the blues band I'm in sell cds and t-shirts. We only do covers although we are quite capable of writing our own material.

[BigRedX]

£15 is now the minimum for a band T-shirt. Last time I was selling them for just a tenner they only cost us £3 each to produce.

 

IMO most merch for new originals bands only sells at gigs, so it's a legitimate form of gig income IMO.

 

And consider this: we recently were part of the musical entertainment for an all-day "alternative" market. As well as getting paid, fed and watered all the bands had a large shared gazebo with tables from where we could sell out merch for free. We did well and sold out of CDs of our debut single as well as nearly all of our last batch of T-shirts. Everyone else selling at the event will have paid £50 for a space and that would have just been a space and nothing else.

[Bassfinger]

10 hours ago, TimR said:

 

The function band I was in didn't go out for less than that. £1600 for a wedding. 

The furthest we ever went for a gig was 100miles.

 

If you're in a pubs cover band, you'll be playing local gigs for around £300. You could do 4 gigs and write off the money to purchase a PA.

 

A lot of originals bands I see are pushing merchandise at the gigs and as far as I can see that's a good money spinner. I bought a t-shirt at the last gig I went to, £20, and I'll be wearing it out and about as it's a pretty nice design. But I'd not be counting that as 'being paid' for the gig. 

Much the same here, £1800-2000. Did did go further afield but charged expenses accordingly.

 

We did pubs and clubs for the usual £400, but we didn't do many and tended to treat them as a paid live rehearsal rather than a gig in their own right.  As time wore on I was finding the grief, mainly puerile pithed up behaviour from the punters, a bit tiresome at the pubs and clubs and that was part of the reason I walked on that outfit.

[diskwave]

Its tricky. Singer owns the Vox PA.. thats all fine an dandy, but what then happens to the band dynamic the moment you put ur snare/BD thru it too because the venue doesnt sound right?  Thats the tricky bit, when others start taking advantage, so I can see the singists point when they get peeved. 

[Dad3353]

56 minutes ago, diskwave said:

Its tricky. Singer owns the Vox PA.. thats all fine an dandy, but what then happens to the band dynamic the moment you put ur snare/BD thru it too because the venue doesnt sound right?  Thats the tricky bit, when others start taking advantage, so I can see the singists point when they get peeved. 

 

If the venue requires more than a 'vox-only' PA, then it's a band decision to invest, or hire the gear needed. The PA owner decides what does or does not go through his/her PA. 

Edited October 1 by Dad3353