Opinions/Advice Much Appreciated on Amp for Newbie

[The Attic Man]

Hi all,

sorry I don't post very often but I know when needed you wonderful bass heads have the expertise, wisdom and know how.

 

Basically I'm a old (53) newbie been attempting to learn since last October, I was gifted a bass (a early 90's Encore) and a small peavey amp. I've purchased a Blackstar headphone amp that I like. But I think the speaker is going in the peavey amp.

 

I'm thinking of possibly purchasing a amp and would appreciate your imput.

 

In no particular order I'm thinking of  . Blackstar Unity

                                                              . Fender Rumble Studio 40

                                                              . Orange Crush Bass 50 Combo

                                                              . Positive Grid Spark Black

 

I'm considering to go down the used route to try and save a few quid hopefully, I'm not in desperate need of it but i want to get some gear  🤣.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Dave

[JapanAxe]

The Fender Rumble 40 punches well above its weight (it's pretty light) - I've heard one used in a 20-piece big band and it coped with ease.

 

The Orange Crush Amps are well made and sound ok.

 

No experience of the others.

[Lozz196]

Of the those listed the ones with extra plus points for me are 

 

Fender Rumble 40v3 - has drive on it

 

Orange Crush 50 - has onboard tuner

 

Person I’d look at the Rumble, being able to blend in some overdrive to the sound is a handy feature to have

[The Attic Man]

23 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

The Fender Rumble 40 punches well above its weight (it's pretty light) - I've heard one used in a 20-piece big band and it coped with ease.

 

The Orange Crush Amps are well made and sound ok.

 

No experience of the others.

Many thanks yeah I'm drawn to the rumble with all the onboard sounds etc and I don't know why but I like blackstar I'm sort of looking at them 2 I think i need to go somewhere and try them out 

[The Attic Man]

19 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Of the those listed the ones with extra plus points for me are 

 

Fender Rumble 40v3 - has drive on it

 

Orange Crush 50 - has onboard tuner

 

Person I’d look at the Rumble, being able to blend in some overdrive to the sound is a handy feature to have

Many thanks yeah I've heard good things about both of those two and I also like the blackstar unity. I'm drawn to the rumble for all the extra sounds it packs  thanks so much for your input 

[Dan Dare]

Rumbles are the standard recommendation for beginners or those who don't want to spend a lot. I would suggest you look at 100w, rather than 40. Most 40 or 50w combos have 8" (10" if you're lucky) speakers and won't set the world alight, especially if you want to use drive or dirty sounds (when they sound like an angry wasp). They won't gig, despite what anyone claims (barring maybe with an acoustic duo in a wine bar). They're also not that easy to sell on, as will inevitably happen should you a) improve and want something more capable or b) lose interest.

[Minininjarob]

20 hours ago, The Attic Man said:

Hi all,

sorry I don't post very often but I know when needed you wonderful bass heads have the expertise, wisdom and know how.

 

Basically I'm a old (53) newbie been attempting to learn since last October, I was gifted a bass (a early 90's Encore) and a small peavey amp. I've purchased a Blackstar headphone amp that I like. But I think the speaker is going in the peavey amp.

 

I'm thinking of possibly purchasing a amp and would appreciate your imput.

 

In no particular order I'm thinking of  . Blackstar Unity

                                                              . Fender Rumble Studio 40

                                                              . Orange Crush Bass 50 Combo

                                                              . Positive Grid Spark Black

 

I'm considering to go down the used route to try and save a few quid hopefully, I'm not in desperate need of it but i want to get some gear  🤣.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Dave

Welcome aboard - I’m a relative newbie and of more advanced too. When I started I was looking for an amp and I was so glad I made the time to go and try some out. I could barely fret a note but the guys in PMT and Richtone were so helpful and nice even though it was clear I couldn’t play. 
I wasn’t expecting the amps to sound so different to be honest, so I am glad I tried them out. 
One warning - don’t try amps you can’t afford it’s infuriating!!

I tried Ampeg combos and thought they were ok but a bit “meh”, I tried Ashdown, again I thought they sounded a bit boring. I didn’t try an Orange because no one had them in stock but wasn’t bothered as I don’t like the look of them. 
Then I tried a Fender Rumble - wow! So clear but punchy, just plucking one note I was like “yes that’s the sound I want”. I could turn up the drive if I wanted to to make it sound more gritty and there was a few buttons I could press to make it sound different (I didn’t know what they did at the time but they were a scoop option, vintage option etc). 
Couple of things to think about - I had briefly borrowed a small practice amp and hated it as there was barely any bass in it. When I tried the Rumble 40 then the 100 there was so much difference. I could hear what I was playing with the 40 but the 100 sounded like a PROPER amp. I figured that the extra money on the 100 would be well spent as I could feel like a real bassist (and to a beginner that means a lot!) and I thought it would do me for home practice as well as maybe my first band playing too. The 40 would not have worked in a full band. 
Also, as an electronics sort of guy I didn’t want the built in effects like the Studio version has. I figured that there is more to go wrong, and I might be paying more for something I don’t need or want and I could always buy a pedal or two later if I needed them once I knew a bit more about playing bass. 
I was going to buy new as I wanted the guarantee from a shop. In the end I got a 2nd hand GK amp but I was literally on the way to buy the Rumble 100 new when the GK was offered to me. If anything happended to my GK I’d be buying a Rumble 100%. 
 

Hope that helps!

[Bigwan]

I'd be on the lookout for a Roland Bass Cube if I were in your position. Lots of sound options. You should be able to pick up the Bass Cube 30 for under a ton I should think. I've no experience of the others on your list I'm afraid, but I'd stay well clear of the Spark.

[The Attic Man]

14 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

Rumbles are the standard recommendation for beginners or those who don't want to spend a lot. I would suggest you look at 100w, rather than 40. Most 40 or 50w combos have 8" (10" if you're lucky) speakers and won't set the world alight, especially if you want to use drive or dirty sounds (when they sound like an angry wasp). They won't gig, despite what anyone claims (barring maybe with an acoustic duo in a wine bar). They're also not that easy to sell on, as will inevitably happen should you a) improve and want something more capable or b) lose interest.

 

28 minutes ago, Minininjarob said:

Welcome aboard - I’m a relative newbie and of more advanced too. When I started I was looking for an amp and I was so glad I made the time to go and try some out. I could barely fret a note but the guys in PMT and Richtone were so helpful and nice even though it was clear I couldn’t play. 
I wasn’t expecting the amps to sound so different to be honest, so I am glad I tried them out. 
One warning - don’t try amps you can’t afford it’s infuriating!!

I tried Ampeg combos and thought they were ok but a bit “meh”, I tried Ashdown, again I thought they sounded a bit boring. I didn’t try an Orange because no one had them in stock but wasn’t bothered as I don’t like the look of them. 
Then I tried a Fender Rumble - wow! So clear but punchy, just plucking one note I was like “yes that’s the sound I want”. I could turn up the drive if I wanted to to make it sound more gritty and there was a few buttons I could press to make it sound different (I didn’t know what they did at the time but they were a scoop option, vintage option etc). 
Couple of things to think about - I had briefly borrowed a small practice amp and hated it as there was barely any bass in it. When I tried the Rumble 40 then the 100 there was so much difference. I could hear what I was playing with the 40 but the 100 sounded like a PROPER amp. I figured that the extra money on the 100 would be well spent as I could feel like a real bassist (and to a beginner that means a lot!) and I thought it would do me for home practice as well as maybe my first band playing too. The 40 would not have worked in a full band. 
Also, as an electronics sort of guy I didn’t want the built in effects like the Studio version has. I figured that there is more to go wrong, and I might be paying more for something I don’t need or want and I could always buy a pedal or two later if I needed them once I knew a bit more about playing bass. 
I was going to buy new as I wanted the guarantee from a shop. In the end I got a 2nd hand GK amp but I was literally on the way to buy the Rumble 100 new when the GK was offered to me. If anything happended to my GK I’d be buying a Rumble 100%. 
 

Hope that helps!

 

7 minutes ago, Bigwan said:

I'd be on the lookout for a Roland Bass Cube if I were in your position. Lots of sound options. You should be able to pick up the Bass Cube 30 for under a ton I should think. I've no experience of the others on your list I'm afraid, but I'd stay well clear of the Spark.

Thanks so much for your input, really appreciate it.

Yeah don't think I can afford a 100W unless I buy 2nd hand or save for ages 🤣 very good point about the Studio 40 and i.e. more to go wrong, I may go down the route of Blackstar/Fender/Orange with no modelling. I definitely need to actually try some out, I'm in no rush so will wont buy on the impulse unless i see an absolute bargain 2nd hand

. Cant ever see me being good enough for a band (although i would love it) once again thanks so much for your words of wisdom / experience.

[bremen]

1 hour ago, The Attic Man said:

 

 

Thanks so much for your input, really appreciate it.

Yeah don't think I can afford a 100W unless I buy 2nd hand or save for ages 🤣 very good point about the Studio 40 and i.e. more to go wrong, I may go down the route of Blackstar/Fender/Orange with no modelling. I definitely need to actually try some out, I'm in no rush so will wont buy on the impulse unless i see an absolute bargain 2nd hand

. Cant ever see me being good enough for a band (although i would love it) once again thanks so much for your words of wisdom / experience.

Yes you will be good enough for a band. You don't need to be [famous bass player] to make a wonderful noise and have a great time with like minded people.

 

 

[Minininjarob]

3 hours ago, The Attic Man said:

 

 

Thanks so much for your input, really appreciate it.

Yeah don't think I can afford a 100W unless I buy 2nd hand or save for ages 🤣 very good point about the Studio 40 and i.e. more to go wrong, I may go down the route of Blackstar/Fender/Orange with no modelling. I definitely need to actually try some out, I'm in no rush so will wont buy on the impulse unless i see an absolute bargain 2nd hand

. Cant ever see me being good enough for a band (although i would love it) once again thanks so much for your words of wisdom / experience.

I didn’t think I’d be in a band but I made it something I would try and I love it, we haven’t played a gig yet and the guitarist is as new as me so it’s been a voyage of discovery for me too. 
The studio 40 rumble with the effects is more expensive than the standard 100w version so it’s a no brainer to get the 100w version if you can. 

[Minininjarob]

1 hour ago, bremen said:

Yes you will be good enough for a band. You don't need to be [famous bass player] to make a wonderful noise and have a great time with like minded people.

 

 

Couldn’t agree more!!

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, bremen said:

Yes you will be good enough for a band. You don't need to be [famous bass player] to make a wonderful noise and have a great time with like minded people.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Minininjarob said:

Couldn’t agree more!!

Same here, until you join a band there’s a lot of mystique about how good people in bands must be. Then you join one and realise that same with anything, accountants, firemen, footballers etc there are different levels, and that once committed that’s the first level.

[The Attic Man]

Hi again guys thanks so much for all your input advice and kind words. I'm spending loads of time watching video reviews and reading up on amps, I do like the fender rumble, what's your thoughts on the Blackstar unity  or the boss katana amp ?

 

I must say the videos I have heard of the fender rumble, it sounds really good, I am hopefully going to try and visit a store or 2 so I can actually listen to one .

 

best regards

 

Dave 

[Downunderwonder]

On 25/09/2024 at 20:55, The Attic Man said:

Cant ever see me being good enough for a band

Dude. Once you get the hang of always playing in time no matter what, it's a whole different world where you are the benevolent King of Bottom End. Then you work on playing way more right notes than wrong ones for your own satisfaction.

 

As you aren't in a band yet I say keep saving so you can join one with a band worthy amp. Don't waste money on a glorified practice amp.

 

My experience with the V3 Rumble 100 is it surprised the hell out of me. It looks like a glorified practice amp but actually has some heft to it.

 

You wouldn't join in with drums and 4x12 guitar stacks but short of that it will cover a lot of bases.

 

If you get a hankering to play in an insanely loud rock band you will be looking for some well used big old gear going cheap. Most people on this forum have some they would happily offload to you.

[The Attic Man]

On 01/10/2024 at 09:24, Downunderwonder said:

Dude. Once you get the hang of always playing in time no matter what, it's a whole different world where you are the benevolent King of Bottom End. Then you work on playing way more right notes than wrong ones for your own satisfaction.

 

As you aren't in a band yet I say keep saving so you can join one with a band worthy amp. Don't waste money on a glorified practice amp.

 

My experience with the V3 Rumble 100 is it surprised the hell out of me. It looks like a glorified practice amp but actually has some heft to it.

 

You wouldn't join in with drums and 4x12 guitar stacks but short of that it will cover a lot of bases.

 

If you get a hankering to play in an insanely loud rock band you will be looking for some well used big old gear going cheap. Most people on this forum have some they would happily offload to you.

Thanks  for the lovely words, much appreciated. I'm finding the search for an amp absolutely baffling and I've even been looking at bass heads and cabinets but I get totally confused when they try to explain the ohms etc, its all like dark arts to me. Would I be right in saying I shouldn't consider a head/cabinet combo as that's way to advanced for a total novice like myself ? I was thinking could I get away with buying a 2nd hand Bass head and just running headphones through that until I get the funds to add a cabinet , or should I just continue to look for a combination amp as in the Fender Rumble 100. I'm finding it very confusing , (doesn't take much to confuse me.)

 

Thank you all for the words of wisdom, best regards Dave.

[Downunderwonder]

24 minutes ago, The Attic Man said:

I was thinking could I get away with buying a 2nd hand Bass head and just running headphones through that until I get the funds to add a cabinet

That is one way forward for sure.

 

Ime the immediacy of headphones is the equivalent of the sharpest headmistress you ever encountered.

 

Every little thing wrong  brought sharply to your attention. Great for honing skills when you have some to hone, tough on a raw beginner.

 

Amp plus cab has a lot of win as far as getting serious bang for not a lot of bucks. There is also a lot for carrying carrying the big stick but speaking softly.

 

A bassist with good dynamics can lead the band. A lot of so called musicians in bands fail to remember that there is no loud without quiet. A bass that disappears and reappears can coach a reaction from the drummer and only the worst egotistical guitard will fail to notice he should be dropping down to match in quieter sections.

 

All power to you.

[bremen]

Ohms. The unit of impedance, ie how much an element resists the flow of current.

 

Valve amps must be impedance matched to the cabs they're driving. Some amps have a switch to select their output impedance, some are OK within a range (it's generally OK to drive an 8 ohm output into a 4 ohm speaker but not vice-versa).

 

Transistor amps have a rating: minimum load. Most often 4 ohms, sometimes 2. The speaker(s) must not go under this impedance, and its nearly always fine to go over. Note that two 8 ohm cabs present a total of 4 ohms (unless you wire them in series, which you won't).

 

An amp that delivers 100W into 8 ohms will generally deliver a bit less than twice that into 4 ohms. That's not twice as loud: it's between 2 and 3 decibels louder. Don't obsess over "getting the most out of the amp"; 2dB is noticeable in an AB test but other factors are far more significant. How far is the cab from the back wall? How full is the venue? How drunk is the drummer?

 

A 4 ohm amp driving an 8 ohm speaker will run cooler and have an easier life than driving 4 ohms.

 

In short: assuming it's a transistor amp, all you need to do is be sure your speakers impedance is equal or greater than the minimum rating of the amp. This will generally be labelled.

 

Next week: power ratings! Phil Starr and Bill Fitzmaurice are absolute authorities on the subject. Hear what they say.

Edited October 2 by bremen
predictive text hilarity corrected

[The Attic Man]

1 hour ago, bremen said:

Ohms. The unit of impedance, ie how much an element resists the flow of current.

 

Valve amps must be impedance matched to the cabs they're driving. Some amps have a switch to select their output impedance, some are OK within a range (it's generally OK to drive an 8 ohm output into a 4 ohm speaker but not vice-versa).

 

Transistor amps have a rating: minimum load. Most often 4 ohms, sometimes 2. The speaker(s) must not go under this impedance, and its nearly always fine to go over. Note that two 8 ohm cabs present a total of 4 ohms (unless you wire them in series, which you won't).

 

An amp that delivers 100W into 8 ohms will generally deliver a bit less than twice that into 4 ohms. That's not twice as loud: it's between 2 and 3 decibels louder. Don't obsess over "getting the most out of the amp"; 2dB is noticeable in an AB test but other factors are far more significant. How far is the cab from the back wall? How full is the venue? How drunk is the drummer?

 

A 4 ohm amp driving an 8 ohm speaker will run cooler and have an easier life than driving 4 ohms.

 

In short: assuming it's a transistor amp, all you need to do is be sure your speakers impedance is equal or greater than the minimum rating of the amp. This will generally be labelled.

 

Next week: power ratings! Phil Starr and Bill Fitzmaurice are absolute authorities on the subject. Hear what they say.

Thanks so much I think I can get my head around that 😅  really appreciate the time you took to write that all.

So in theory would I be OK to buy a amp head on its own and just plug headphones in or do I need a cabinet as well. Sorry if it sounds stupid to ask I'm just not knowledgeable at all.  Cheers in advance. 

[bremen]

If the amp has a headphone output, sure. But don't plug headphones into the speaker output, the level is much too high and your headphones will burst into flames but not before they melt your brain.

 

Find an amp you like, if it hasn't got a headphone output I can make you an adaptor to take the level down to suit headphones, about 50p worth of parts that I have in my box anyway.

 

Had you considered making your own cab? All you need is a jigsaw. And some glue.

[The Attic Man]

3 minutes ago, bremen said:

If the amp has a headphone output, sure. But don't plug headphones into the speaker output, the level is much too high and your headphones will burst into flames but not before they melt your brain.

 

Find an amp you like, if it hasn't got a headphone output I can make you an adaptor to take the level down to suit headphones, about 50p worth of parts that I have in my box anyway.

 

Had you considered making your own cab? All you need is a jigsaw. And some glue.

Thank you so much. I shall spend my free hours surfing the net for a 2nd hand amp head preferably with headdphone socket.

That sounds interesting making a speaker cabinet I'd obviously need speaker(s) to put in I bet there's info on the Internet if I search. Thanks so much for your advice greatly appreciated 🙏 😊 

[Downunderwonder]

Not many tube amps come with headphone output. They need their speaker attached or else they go up in smoke. So I think we can scratch tube amps from the list.

 

"All the gear, no idea" is a thing. On the other hand you can't really get to grips with the beast by reading up on it.

 

If you can handle a 12 bar three chord jam in C G  E you should get along to your local open jam and introduce yourself. Playing on other people's gear will teach you far more than what you can read off the web.

[bremen]

Don't turn down an amp just because it lacks a headphone socket. It really is trivial to make an adaptor.

 

I have an earlier model of this

 

https://www.voxamps.co.uk/products/ap3-ba?srsltid=AfmBOorDJQvZmPqEggPXsqCRGFCQ7-riIJhY1qeGwUaT4_CEDN7hb6Js

 

that I use to practise when there's no amp available.

[The Attic Man]

37 minutes ago, bremen said:

Don't turn down an amp just because it lacks a headphone socket. It really is trivial to make an adaptor.

 

I have an earlier model of this

 

https://www.voxamps.co.uk/products/ap3-ba?srsltid=AfmBOorDJQvZmPqEggPXsqCRGFCQ7-riIJhY1qeGwUaT4_CEDN7hb6Js

 

that I use to practise when there's no amp available.

Yeah I have the Blackstar version of the headphone amp I like it. My Peavey amp that I got with the bass just doesn't do much for me and its only small. I'm enjoying looking/ hunting for a amp and also learning valuable info from you wonderful people. I'm still considering a fender rumble or a black star unity  as well as perhaps a amp head/cabinet option I'm in no rush which is a good thing I saw a amp head on eBay that had a headphone socket I think it was a ampeg I might of spelt the brand wrong I'm rushing typing this at work lol

[Geek99]

Ampeg ba108