Small Church Install

[Owen]

That will be a capable and good sounding system. You could spend LOADS more and only get tiny incremental gains. I was in a church over the weekend with a system which was SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive. And yet, they could not spot the massive bump at 100hz which was drowning the room in mud.

[SuperSeagull]

36 minutes ago, Owen said:

That will be a capable and good sounding system. You could spend LOADS more and only get tiny incremental gains. I was in a church over the weekend with a system which was SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive. And yet, they could not spot the massive bump at 100hz which was drowning the room in mud.

Thanks - its been a lonely process making these decisions but I think I've got the right balance between quality, cost and making good use of an install company to do all the heavy lifting (literally!), initial set up etc. Its a five day job to do the install which makes me even more grateful I didn't go down the DIY route. Now I really have to get my head around running the system, eq, ringing the monitors etc etc but helpfully the majority of services until Easter don't have live music so its a gentle intro before we start using it with a band.

[SimonK]

6 minutes ago, SuperSeagull said:

Thanks - its been a lonely process making these decisions but I think I've got the right balance between quality, cost and making good use of an install company to do all the heavy lifting (literally!), initial set up etc. Its a five day job to do the install which makes me even more grateful I didn't go down the DIY route. Now I really have to get my head around running the system, eq, ringing the monitors etc etc but helpfully the majority of services until Easter don't have live music so its a gentle intro before we start using it with a band.

 

Pictures please - then we can keep you company at least online!!

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, SuperSeagull said:

A further update for those who kindly gave me advice on this. After lots of research, chatting to install companies, other churches and a generous donation from a member of the church who recently passed, I settled on using a local company TSPro who have done loads of church installs and both my boys used to work for on Saturdays back when they were (much!) younger.

 

Going in this week is a system based around an A&H Qu16 desk, A&H stage box, EV speakers, Sennheiser wireless mics plus a three screen video system with wireless streaming. I’m adding some gear I was able to source more cheaply from Thomann - e835 mics, K&M stands, Alto powered monitors and a few other bits and pieces. Ready for a try out next Sunday, two days before I start my first round of chemo so hopefully all works well if I’m not able to be around quite as much. Hugely impressed by what I’ve seen of the Qu16 so far - easy to set and recall scenes, run via an iPad - lots for me to learn. We’ve also been able to afford (thanks to the bequest) to replace all the old wooden chairs with fabric padded ones which I think will help with the acoustics. 

We have a QU16 - it's good. The ability to mix IEM mixes with the app is a winner and I prefer it to the ME1 stage boxes they do.

[SuperSeagull]

7 hours ago, SimonK said:

 

Pictures please - then we can keep you company at least online!!

Progress so far. Old audio gear removed, all three screens up, speakers up, network cabling run through the ceiling, cabling for screens going up, rack built.

[SimonK]

I'm guessing that's not where the mixer will finally live!

 

BTW where do the band go - stage right (where the guy on the ladder is)?

[SuperSeagull]

1 hour ago, SimonK said:

I'm guessing that's not where the mixer will finally live!

 

BTW where do the band go - stage right (where the guy on the ladder is)?

Yes, next to where the rack will go. Mixer can be run from band area or at the back. Expect some novice users to be using the basic iPad app and not touching the mixer. 

[Suburban Man]

Looks great but is that an odd perspective, or are the ceiling speakers set behind the lectern/podium?

[David Morison]

Looks to be perspective - if you scan across from the speaker mounting point on the ceiling to the brick pillar far right, it seems a little in front (downstage) of the front of the pillar, and even the back of the pillar appears to be a little in front (downstage) of the lectern, per the line of hazard tape.

[SuperSeagull]

9 hours ago, Suburban Man said:

Looks great but is that an odd perspective, or are the ceiling speakers set behind the lectern/podium?

Yes, just noticed that. Speakers are in front of the lecturn and all of the platform area. I think I us d a wide angle setting on my phone so it makes it look a bit weird!

[Suburban Man]

2 hours ago, David Morison said:

Looks to be perspective - if you scan across from the speaker mounting point on the ceiling to the brick pillar far right, it seems a little in front (downstage) of the front of the pillar, and even the back of the pillar appears to be a little in front (downstage) of the lectern, per the line of hazard tape.

Oh yes.  Good point, I didn't see that.  My, but its going to be a very 'live' band area with all that brickwork and the hard floor - or are you going to be allowed some furnishing?

[SuperSeagull]

41 minutes ago, Suburban Man said:

Oh yes.  Good point, I didn't see that.  My, but its going to be a very 'live' band area with all that brickwork and the hard floor - or are you going to be allowed some furnishing?

It is a bit! But carpet under drums. And that suspended wooden ceiling which is slatted works wonders. Plus new soft chairs going in to replace the wooden ones. 

[SimonK]

26 minutes ago, SuperSeagull said:

It is a bit! But carpet under drums. And that suspended wooden ceiling which is slatted works wonders. Plus new soft chairs going in to replace the wooden ones. 

 

I think you will need more than a carpet under the drums - maybe carpet under the whole band, curtains/foam behind the band, and then a drum screen? I don't think it would be too bad aesthetically looking at the hall if you use say black curtains just in that corner and maybe extend them under the big monitor/screen? I don't think you will get the most out of the new PA unless you find a way to control the sound coming from instruments/amps.

[SuperSeagull]

1 hour ago, SimonK said:

 

I think you will need more than a carpet under the drums - maybe carpet under the whole band, curtains/foam behind the band, and then a drum screen? I don't think it would be too bad aesthetically looking at the hall if you use say black curtains just in that corner and maybe extend them under the big monitor/screen? I don't think you will get the most out of the new PA unless you find a way to control the sound coming from instruments/amps.

Understand - but we've running a band in there for three years with a dreadful PA so we will see. Options to do much more are limited. Fortunately I am a very quiet bassist 🙂 

[mike257]

On 18/03/2025 at 07:10, SuperSeagull said:

A further update for those who kindly gave me advice on this. After lots of research, chatting to install companies, other churches and a generous donation from a member of the church who recently passed, I settled on using a local company TSPro who have done loads of church installs and both my boys used to work for on Saturdays back when they were (much!) younger.

 

Going in this week is a system based around an A&H Qu16 desk, A&H stage box, EV speakers, Sennheiser wireless mics plus a three screen video system with wireless streaming. I’m adding some gear I was able to source more cheaply from Thomann - e835 mics, K&M stands, Alto powered monitors and a few other bits and pieces. Ready for a try out next Sunday, two days before I start my first round of chemo so hopefully all works well if I’m not able to be around quite as much. Hugely impressed by what I’ve seen of the Qu16 so far - easy to set and recall scenes, run via an iPad - lots for me to learn. We’ve also been able to afford (thanks to the bequest) to replace all the old wooden chairs with fabric padded ones which I think will help with the acoustics. 

Glad to hear you've got a solution you're happy with. 

 

I did an install some years ago for a local community centre with similar use cases. Majority of events involved one or two hand-held radio mics, a playback source on a 3.5mm jack, or a laptop hooked up to a projector. 

 

I put a Behringer XR18 in, but the big winner was building them a custom layout on Mixing Station. I made a fairly idiot-proof basic scene with some generic "safe" EQ settings, then set the app up to automatically boot in to a customs layout that only gave access to a fader and a mute button for each of the main input sources (Mic 1, Mic 2, HDMI, 3.5mm, and a stereo XLR hookup at the back of the room for visiting mixers on larger events), a fader that brought up reverb on the mics, a master fader, and a big red "reset to defaults" button that reloaded my scene in case something had gone awry. This meant the least skilled volunteer could operate the system for 95% of their requirements. The full interface was a couple of button presses away for an experienced op to use if required. 

 

You could do a similar thing tailored to your use case for any desk supported by Mixing Station (Behringer XR, X32; Allen & Heath CQ, QU, SQ; various others) and just give volunteers the tablet to use. 

[SuperSeagull]

5 minutes ago, mike257 said:

Glad to hear you've got a solution you're happy with. 

 

I did an install some years ago for a local community centre with similar use cases. Majority of events involved one or two hand-held radio mics, a playback source on a 3.5mm jack, or a laptop hooked up to a projector. 

 

I put a Behringer XR18 in, but the big winner was building them a custom layout on Mixing Station. I made a fairly idiot-proof basic scene with some generic "safe" EQ settings, then set the app up to automatically boot in to a customs layout that only gave access to a fader and a mute button for each of the main input sources (Mic 1, Mic 2, HDMI, 3.5mm, and a stereo XLR hookup at the back of the room for visiting mixers on larger events), a fader that brought up reverb on the mics, a master fader, and a big red "reset to defaults" button that reloaded my scene in case something had gone awry. This meant the least skilled volunteer could operate the system for 95% of their requirements. The full interface was a couple of button presses away for an experienced op to use if required. 

 

You could do a similar thing tailored to your use case for any desk supported by Mixing Station (Behringer XR, X32; Allen & Heath CQ, QU, SQ; various others) and just give volunteers the tablet to use. 

Nice. The A&H apps inc one which is highly simplified and locked to a few basic functions but will look at that app as well. 

[mike257]

1 minute ago, SuperSeagull said:

Nice. The A&H apps inc one which is highly simplified and locked to a few basic functions but will look at that app as well. 

 

I know A&H have a Custom Control app for some of their consoles but don't know if it's available for QU. 

 

With the Mixing Station custom layouts, you get a grid and can draw on/reposition/resize any controls you want, wherever you want, and you have options to limit how they operate too. Definitely worth having a little play with it.