Spectracomp vs MXR M87: Can't hear the difference, how much should I care?

[polvo]

TL;DR - Should I updgrade the compressor on my gig pedalboard, even though I can't hear the difference? Should I trust my ears even though they have never undestood compression?

 

I've been using a Spectracomp (always-on, at the start of my pedalboard), and I like the punch and consistency it gives me when playing live. But as I upgrade other bits of my gear, I'm wondering whether this is a weak link in the chain. So when I saw a good deal on an MXR M87, I picked it up to try it out... but to be honest I can't hear the difference, and definitely no huge improvement .

 

But since compression is such a subtle, almost subconscious effect, part of me wonders if I'm better off sticking with the M87 even though I can't tell the difference. So time to ask the reddit hive mind... do you think I will be getting better results by using a 'better' rated compressor? Obviously nobody in the crowd is going to actually notice a difference, so I'm really talking about the subconscious level (which, let's be honest, is where we do most of our best work as bass players anyway!)

 

A potentially relevant factor here is that I generally find compression super hard to hear, so I might just not be dialling it in as well as I could. I understand in theory the effect that ratio, attack, release, etc. will have on my sound... I just can't really hear it unless it's super obvious. M87 is currently set up to compress pretty hard and emphasise the attack.

 

In the Spectracomp's favour - I do love how little space it takes up on my pedalboard. I only really use compression as a 'set it and forget it' pedal when I'm playing live, so it's not like the extra controls on the M87 really bring much value for my use case.

 

 

 

[ezbass]

10 minutes ago, polvo said:

Should I trust my ears

Always

 

10 minutes ago, polvo said:

even though they have never understood compression?

Paging @Osiris

[Baloney Balderdash]

I don't think compression is a subtle effect, even when it is subtly applied. 

 

Though I do understand where you are coming from.

 

However I don't understand what it is you want to achieve when you can't hear the difference, and for certain no one of the audience, and in the mix, will either (though I hate that argument, I think it is actually appropriate here).

 

For sure the SpectraComp is practically almost indefinitely more flexible than the MXR, which I am not sure why is supposed to be objectively better (I mean except if you need to have on the fly access to parameter control, and insist on using analog gear only, for whatever reason, the sure the MXR would be a better choise).

 

Edited October 2 by Baloney Balderdash

[Osiris]

1 hour ago, polvo said:

TL;DR - Should I updgrade the compressor on my gig pedalboard, even though I can't hear the difference? Should I trust my ears even though they have never undestood compression?

 

I've been using a Spectracomp (always-on, at the start of my pedalboard), and I like the punch and consistency it gives me when playing live. But as I upgrade other bits of my gear, I'm wondering whether this is a weak link in the chain. So when I saw a good deal on an MXR M87, I picked it up to try it out... but to be honest I can't hear the difference, and definitely no huge improvement .

 

But since compression is such a subtle, almost subconscious effect, part of me wonders if I'm better off sticking with the M87 even though I can't tell the difference. So time to ask the reddit hive mind... do you think I will be getting better results by using a 'better' rated compressor? Obviously nobody in the crowd is going to actually notice a difference, so I'm really talking about the subconscious level (which, let's be honest, is where we do most of our best work as bass players anyway!)

 

A potentially relevant factor here is that I generally find compression super hard to hear, so I might just not be dialling it in as well as I could. I understand in theory the effect that ratio, attack, release, etc. will have on my sound... I just can't really hear it unless it's super obvious. M87 is currently set up to compress pretty hard and emphasise the attack.

 

In the Spectracomp's favour - I do love how little space it takes up on my pedalboard. I only really use compression as a 'set it and forget it' pedal when I'm playing live, so it's not like the extra controls on the M87 really bring much value for my use case.

 

 

From what you've said here, I think your thoughts about the hardware you're using are irrelevant. By your own admission you don't understand compression so in that case it doesn't really matter what model of compressor you're using if you don't know how to get the best out of it. My stock response to questions like this - and they crop up frequently - is to spend some time doing your homework. Read up on what each parameter does and how they interact then start to apply that knowledge to setting the compressor up to do what you want it to. You're get more helpful information from sound engineering sites than places like here and Reddit 😉 And the best way to do this is at volume with the band, assuming you play in one, as you'll then start to better hear and feel the consistency that the compressor is giving to your sound. It will take time and a lot of experimentation, but once you get it right, you'll never want to switch it off. And don't think of compression as an effect, think of it in the same way as EQ and HPF. I think a lot of people have problems with compressors as they assume they're going to be an obvious effect like a drive or synth, they're not, they are more subtle than that but infinitely more useful, IMO. This is not meant to sound condescending in any way, it's just a lot of the anti-compression arguments come from a lack of understanding of the principles of compression and how to apply it. 

[ezbass]

Obviously, Origin Effects have an axe to grind, but this might help.

 

 

[polvo]

42 minutes ago, Osiris said:

once you get it right, you'll never want to switch it off

I'm totally on board with this, and I'm definitely in favour of some compression in my chain! When I A/B the spectracomp or M87 against a dry signal it's a big improvement. It's just AB-ing between the spectracomp and M87 that my ears can't hear a difference.

 

 

46 minutes ago, Osiris said:

By your own admission you don't understand compression

This isn't quite what my problem is... I understand compression, and I know in theory what effect all the parameters should have on the sound. I just can't hear it! It all makes complete sense in theory, I just can't hear it in practice. 

 

 

40 minutes ago, Osiris said:

the best way to do this is at volume with the band, assuming you play in one, as you'll then start to better hear and feel the consistency that the compressor is giving to your sound

Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. At this point I've probably spent too much time reading up on what the parameters do and not enough time playing around with them (especially with the band). In my post I kind of dismissed the on-board controls of the M87 as irrelevant to my situation, but it turns out they might actually be the perfect way for me to learn more about compression (can't exactly start tweaking Toneprint settings for the Spectracomp in between songs!)

 

A follow-up question on this... I've noticed that what works well at home with a practice amp doesn't always translate to a band practice. But is the same true when going from band practice to live gigs? If I spend time dialing in compression, I imagine there's a good chance that won't translate to a gig (where the entire band is using different gear, plus sound is going through a PA, plus we're in a whole different space and in reality we're probably all playing with a different energy). Do you have any tips for getting around this? (the answer is probably just play loads of gigs)

 

 

[Osiris]

7 minutes ago, polvo said:

This isn't quite what my problem is... I understand compression, and I know in theory what effect all the parameters should have on the sound. I just can't hear it! It all makes complete sense in theory, I just can't hear it in practice. 

 

Apologies, I misunderstood your original post. 

 

It takes time to get your ear in although it's really more of a feel thing, the way the bass is more consistent and present in the mix, if that makes sense?

 

11 minutes ago, polvo said:

A follow-up question on this... I've noticed that what works well at home with a practice amp doesn't always translate to a band practice. But is the same true when going from band practice to live gigs? If I spend time dialing in compression, I imagine there's a good chance that won't translate to a gig (where the entire band is using different gear, plus sound is going through a PA, plus we're in a whole different space and in reality we're probably all playing with a different energy). Do you have any tips for getting around this? (the answer is probably just play loads of gigs)

 

I don't have anything particularly helpful to add in answer to this other than keep experimenting to see what works best in he different contexts. 

[Frank Blank]

I too was baffled by compression. I was also baffled by the singer/guitarist in my duo (an experienced FOH/sound tech) missing compression in our sound, applying that compression and being satisfied when I couldn't hear the difference. "If you can hear a difference in tone then it's too much compression," she would say, I couldn't get my head around that. Thankfully I am acquainted with the excellent @Osiris, who spent a day demonstrating and educating me in the subtleties of compression, that lead to me understanding the subject a lot more and, eventually, to acquiring an optical compressor, much more suited to the type of music we play. Now I can't do without it, I notice when it isn't on and yet I'd still struggle, really struggle, to explain exactly what it's doing. I use a very expensive preamp and the Effectrode PC-2A Compressor, given the choice between the two I'd keep the compressor, the preamp is tech, that compressor has some kind of juju I can't do without.

[LukeFRC]

If I had to choose between the spectracomp and the Mxr I would choose the spectracomp - so I’m not really sure why you would think of it as a weak link? 

[peteb]

6 hours ago, polvo said:

But since compression is such a subtle, almost subconscious effect, part of me wonders if I'm better off sticking with the M87 even though I can't tell the difference. So time to ask the reddit hive mind... do you think I will be getting better results by using a 'better' rated compressor? Obviously nobody in the crowd is going to actually notice a difference, so I'm really talking about the subconscious level (which, let's be honest, is where we do most of our best work as bass players anyway!)

 

 

 I was in exactly the same position as you - I appreciate how and why compression is beneficial, but struggle to hear the difference between different compressors.

 

I got the M87 and struggled with it at first, if anything it seemed to be making things worse! Then I spoke to a bass playing sound engineer of my acquaintance and asked his opinion. He just told me how to set it up and said 'trust me, this is what you're after'. I still don't really understand the reasons why, but since following his advice, the M87 has just worked really well. It is always on when I'm playing and I wouldn't be without it... 

 

Edited October 2 by peteb

[polvo]

1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

If I had to choose between the spectracomp and the Mxr I would choose the spectracomp - so I’m not really sure why you would think of it as a weak link? 

 

'Weak link' might have been the wrong way to put it, but I think I just saw too many reviews raving about the MXR and got it into my head that on some level it must be objectively 'better'. Maybe also subconsciously thinking that because the Spectracomp is mini and so simple to use, it might not be as good (ironically those are actually the exact reasons I love it).

 

This thread has reassured me that I'm not just missing some magic sauce that the MXR has. But it does look like it'll be a great tool to learn about compression parameters, with all the controls on the pedal rather than hidden in a toneprint app. So I think it'll replace the Spectracomp on my board at least temporarily while I try and get my head around compression a bit more. Might well sell it on later though, and just go back to the tiny simple beauty of the Spectracomp!

 

[neepheid]

Sounds like some FOMO was creeping into your thought processes, and I'm glad it sounds like you've managed to rationalise it out.

 

If it sounds good, then it is good, and you're the judge of that.

 

Getting another compressor with more controls in order to learn compression better sounds like a noble endeavour though.  I have a very simple 2 control ancient Yamaha compressor on my board which I just randomly acquired and it does the simple "smoothing things out" job well enough.  Like you, I have thought about replacing it with something more fully featured (like say a Joyo Scylla because I'm a tightwad) but honestly I enjoy the lack of bother.  I'm not entirely sure I want to know in full blown HD superdeluxe technicolor detail how it works - it's a "makes things betterer" pedal and I'm happy enough to black box it like that and move on.  Each to their own though!

[neepheid]

In fact, if anything, I'd be tempted to get an even simpler compressor, because it's all my low effort approach deserves.  One of those optical compressors with a single knob - "right then guv, how much of what I call "compression" do you want?"  I can live with that.

[Osiris]

24 minutes ago, neepheid said:

In fact, if anything, I'd be tempted to get an even simpler compressor, because it's all my low effort approach deserves.  One of those optical compressors with a single knob - "right then guv, how much of what I call "compression" do you want?"  I can live with that.

 

Treat yourself to an Orange Squeezer if you can find one, I think they haven't been made since the 70's. No controls at all other than an on/off switch 😁

[Linus27]

I play fretless and got the Ampeg Optical Compressor on the recommendation of @Osiris It is very simple but very effective and works wonders. It is very tempting to think the grass is always greener and get something different with more knobs etc. after all Pino uses a Cali76 and I'm super tempted to try one simply because he uses one. However, I'm super happy with my Ampeg Optical Compressor so I'll stick with that. If you are happy with your Spectracomp then I'd stick with it.

[Linus27]

I think @Osiris should do a compressor clinic. We all turn up at some rehearsal studio with our rig. Pay him £25 for an hour of talking, setting up our compressors and recommendations. We go home happy and no longer confused about compression and he goes home rich and happier 😄

[peteb]

7 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

I play fretless and got the Ampeg Optical Compressor on the recommendation of @Osiris It is very simple but very effective and works wonders. It is very tempting to think the grass is always greener and get something different with more knobs etc. after all Pino uses a Cali76 and I'm super tempted to try one simply because he uses one. However, I'm super happy with my Ampeg Optical Compressor so I'll stick with that. If you are happy with your Spectracomp then I'd stick with it.

 

In addition to PIno and a number of big names, a fair few of decent players I know use a Cali76 and apparently it is the one to go for. However, I'm not sure that I can justify dropping a further £300 on one - just how much better will it be than the M87? 

 

[ezbass]

7 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

Pino uses a Cali76 and I'm super tempted

I use an MXR M87, but I’ve always fancied a Cali76 because of their reputation. However, the colour that the old version added was potentially an issue, so didn’t get one. Then they brought out the new version, that is less coloured and has a more informative VU, oh, oh, GAS ahead! Then I realised that an uncoloured Cali76, with a row of LEDs is pretty much an M87 (they are both based on the Urei 1176), but with a couple more bells and whistles (dry/wet blend for instance). So I’m sticking with the MXR (at least for now) and saving a few bob.

 

My own compressor journey came about via a recording session, during lockdown. I sent a friend of mine, who owned a FOH company and often ran the board himself (with terrific results, best sound engineer I’ve encountered and also does pro recordings for others) a copy of the recording. He suggested some very subtle comp settings, which I applied and the way the bass sat so much better in the mix was striking. Straight away I researched comp pedals and have had the M87 on my board since.

[ezbass]

8 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

In addition to PIno and a number of big names, a fair few of decent players I know use a Cali76 and apparently it is the one to go for. However, I'm not sure that I can justify dropping a further £300 on one - just how much better will it be than the M87? 

 

I was just typing as you posted, see my thoughts above.

[Osiris]

28 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

I play fretless and got the Ampeg Optical Compressor on the recommendation of @Osiris It is very simple but very effective and works wonders. It is very tempting to think the grass is always greener and get something different with more knobs etc. after all Pino uses a Cali76 and I'm super tempted to try one simply because he uses one. However, I'm super happy with my Ampeg Optical Compressor so I'll stick with that. If you are happy with your Spectracomp then I'd stick with it.

 

I wouldn't have thought that a Cali76, or any other 1176 based unit, would be the most appropriate choice for fretless as the 1176 and its offspring are FET based designs which are very fast and impart colour on the signal which I'd guess is not overly desirable for clean fretless playing. However, I'm not a fretless player but optical units, like your Ampeg Opto comp, are slower and generally warmer sounding. But as with anything, it's down to personal preference and whatever works for you. 

 

I'm half tempted by the new Cali76 as I like FET based comps as they work well with my heavy handed technique - a legacy from when I started playing 40 odd years ago as an angry young teenager, but like @peteb commented above, I struggle to justify dropping £300 on a single pedal, no matter how good it is. But that's not to say I won't at some point...

[Linus27]

31 minutes ago, Osiris said:

 

I wouldn't have thought that a Cali76, or any other 1176 based unit, would be the most appropriate choice for fretless as the 1176 and its offspring are FET based designs which are very fast and impart colour on the signal which I'd guess is not overly desirable for clean fretless playing. However, I'm not a fretless player but optical units, like your Ampeg Opto comp, are slower and generally warmer sounding. But as with anything, it's down to personal preference and whatever works for you. 

 

I'm half tempted by the new Cali76 as I like FET based comps as they work well with my heavy handed technique - a legacy from when I started playing 40 odd years ago as an angry young teenager, but like @peteb commented above, I struggle to justify dropping £300 on a single pedal, no matter how good it is. But that's not to say I won't at some point...

 

I agree and I am more than happy with your recommendation of the Ampeg pedal. It is always on and it does work really well. There's just always that in the back of your mind niggle saying, maybe try the Cali76, it might be even better, look what you could be missing 🤣 So far I have ignored it as the Ampeg is great.

[peteb]

40 minutes ago, Osiris said:

I'm half tempted by the new Cali76 as I like FET based comps as they work well with my heavy handed technique - a legacy from when I started playing 40 odd years ago as an angry young teenager, but like @peteb commented above, I struggle to justify dropping £300 on a single pedal, no matter how good it is. But that's not to say I won't at some point...

 

To be fair, it's not the £300 price tag in itself that is the problem, more that I've already spent a fair bit on the M87 (now going for £230)...! 

 

[LukeFRC]

27 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

To be fair, it's not the £300 price tag in itself that is the problem, more that I've already spent a fair bit on the M87 (now going for £230)...! 

 

I took an instant dislike to the sound of the cali76 - even though it’s very good at doing what it’s supposed to be doing. 

[peteb]

Just now, LukeFRC said:

I took an instant dislike to the sound of the cali76 - even though it’s very good at doing what it’s supposed to be doing. 

 

I think that you might want something different in a compressor than someone like me is looking for. My understanding of pedals isn't as detailed as yours and the way I use them is a lot different from what you do. I'm just using a comp to help the bass find its place in the mix rather than as an effect. 

 

[LukeFRC]

8 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

I think that you might want something different in a compressor than someone like me is looking for. My understanding of pedals isn't as detailed as yours and the way I use them is a lot different from what you do. I'm just using a comp to help the bass find its place in the mix rather than as an effect. 

 

but that's where I think the premise of this thread is a bit odd - a spectracomp isn't better than a Cali76  or MXR. - they are all good enough but different and sound different....

 

for sitting in the mix I would prefer a multi band setting on the Spectracomp or a MXR, for me at least, the Cali76 is inherently more coloured and "effecty"... If you have a MXR and it's working - great stick with it. 
 

If it sounds good it is good. And even if Pino uses one thing, he doesn't have your bass or fingers (and you don't have his band or gigs!).

( @peteb Pete, I've quoted you but it's kinda a view directed at the whole thread, not you specifically)