Fender "innovation" launch

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, tauzero said:

 

I've owned two. I now have arthritis. So now we know cause and effect - eschew the P, save your joints!

Sadly I now have arthritis in my left thumb so wide Precision necks are now beyond me too. 

[neepheid]

Now I am starting to regret my choices.  Sorry to all you folks who suffer, I did not consider the insensitivity of using your condition to make a light hearted point.

[jd56hawk]

I'm not a fan, but Fender sticks with what they know for a very good reason...thousands upon thousands simply go with what works. Other than that, as already mentioned, every time they try something new and different like the Dimension or the Meteora, they don't exactly sell like hotcakes.

You want something innovative and different, buy one of these.

Nothing really innovative about it, but that pickguard is accountable for quite a few sales.

 

Edited October 12 by jd56hawk

[neepheid]

1 minute ago, jd56hawk said:

I'm not a fan, but Fender sticks to what they know for a very good reason...thousands upon thousands simply stick with what works. Other than that, as already mentioned, every time they try something new and different like the Dimension or the Meteora, they don't exactly sell like hotcakes.

You want something innovative and different, buy one of these.

Nothing really innovative about it, but that pickguard is accountable for quite a few sales.

 

 

 

Eh?

[jd56hawk]

13 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

Eh?

Meh, actually.

[Lozz196]

40 minutes ago, neepheid said:

Now I am starting to regret my choices.  Sorry to all you folks who suffer, I did not consider the insensitivity of using your condition to make a light hearted point.

No problems here @neepheid, life happens, won’t ruin my day, I’ve just chosen Fenders with thinner necks 😀

[Stub Mandrel]

I was thinking about it yesterday and there are some post-Leo Fender innovations, even if you don't like them or they fell a bit flat. Examples:

 

Micro-tilt neck.

Aerodyne body shape.

TBX tone control.

Partnership with Lace sensors.

Antigua finish...

'Paranormal' series mixing and matching features.

The little string hook thst fits on the A tuner.

Fender Fatfinger.

Grasping that the 'budget series' should offer a quality playing experience to help build loyalty and aspiration to the more expensive instruments. They are the masters of market segmentation.

Modelling amps that focus on one classic amp and do it well.

Custom shop.

Relicing.

 

[chris_b]

3 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

Fender need to appeal to the non-Fenderheads . . . .

 

IMO it's unlikely that Fender will "innovate" that successfully. They tried various things in the past without success. They need to relaunch their lines to Fender fans who aren't currently playing Fenders. There's a huge multi layered FSO market out there that Fender let slip through their fingers.

 

The innovation that is actually within Fender's grasp, is to do what their competitors are doing, but do it better. I know their management of 70+ years just wanted to chuck instruments out the door, but they should raise the quality of their instruments and recapture as much of the FSO market as they can.

 

I couldn't find any Fender 5 string basses in the 1996. As a Fender player for 26 years, I wouldn't have bought a Sting Ray 5, probably wouldn't have bought a Lakland, Lull or Sadowsky if Fender bothered to make equivalent versions. There are a lot of players who left Fender because of their cavalier attitude to quality and their customers.

[chris_b]

48 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I was thinking about it yesterday and there are some post-Leo Fender innovations, even if you don't like them or they fell a bit flat. Examples:

 

Fender Fatfinger.

 

Alembic were experimenting with brass plates attached to the back of the headstock, but the Fatfinger was developed by Groove Tubes.

[itu]

27 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I was thinking about it yesterday and there are some post-Leo Fender innovations, even if you don't like them or they fell a bit flat. Examples:

 

Aerodyne body shape.

Antigua finish...

Custom shop.

Relicing.

Design, or colour, meh.

 

Budget series: a serially produced instrument produced in series in a lower cost country? Was the invention to use "Made in far east" tags?

 

Partnership with Lace sensor, well why not DiMarzio? Where's the invention?

 

Fatfinger was originally (GT) Fathead, before F bought the idea or the company. See previous.

 

I think TBX and micro tilt adjustment are decent ideas, but that's not a lot. Is TBX even available for basses? It was introduced 1988 in an E.C. Strat.

 

Stu Hamm model was different, though.

[krispn]

It’s a shame they don’t shift focus to a ‘Modern Player’ series where the do the MM/J or MM/P thing etc. and take some inspiration from other more high end basses and rather than only have the AVRI variants step into the modern age. Pawn shop was cool as it’s that whole modded bass scene. 
 

It not my vibe as I’m not a modern bassist by any means but I can see how they could expand the he line up because their custom shop must see a lot of similar design ideas which you think would filter down. 

[tauzero]

3 hours ago, neepheid said:

Now I am starting to regret my choices.  Sorry to all you folks who suffer, I did not consider the insensitivity of using your condition to make a light hearted point.

 

Don't worry about it.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

3 hours ago, jd56hawk said:

 

You want something innovative and different, buy one of these.

Nothing really innovative about it, but that pickguard is accountable for quite a few sales.

 

A load of random design features resulting in... whatever that is, is not innovation.

[jd56hawk]

1 hour ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

A load of random design features resulting in... whatever that is, is not innovation.

Yes, exactly, that's why I said nothing really innovative about it.

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, itu said:

Design, or colour, meh.

 

Budget series: a serially produced instrument produced in series in a lower cost country? Was the invention to use "Made in far east" tags?

 

Partnership with Lace sensor, well why not DiMarzio? Where's the invention?

 

Fatfinger was originally (GT) Fathead, before F bought the idea or the company. See previous.

 

I think TBX and micro tilt adjustment are decent ideas, but that's not a lot. Is TBX even available for basses? It was introduced 1988 in an E.C. Strat.

 

Stu Hamm model was different, though.

 

The approach of improving Squier was taken well ahead of competition.

 

TBX is at least 85, as it's on my performer bass of that year.

 

 

Lace were the first noiseless IIRC.

[tauzero]

Maybe the answer is for Fender to spin off a subsidiary called something else to produce properly innovative designs.

[LowB_FTW]

14 hours ago, jd56hawk said:

 

You want something innovative and different, buy one of these.

Nothing really innovative about it, but that pickguard is accountable for quite a few sales.

 

There may be nothing innovative about these, but it doesn't stop me wanting one of the 5-string versions of it.

It's a weird combination of three different makes/types of bass that on paper shouldn't really work, but in practice I love it.

Opinions are basically that this is a Marmite bass, but just like Marmite itself, I like this bass.

When you see something you like, it doesn't need to be innovative.

 

Mark

[prowla]

15 hours ago, jd56hawk said:

I'm not a fan, but Fender sticks with what they know for a very good reason...thousands upon thousands simply go with what works. Other than that, as already mentioned, every time they try something new and different like the Dimension or the Meteora, they don't exactly sell like hotcakes.

You want something innovative and different, buy one of these.

Nothing really innovative about it, but that pickguard is accountable for quite a few sales.

 

There's nothing innovative about that: it's a P-bass with a vaguely Ric(ish) pickguard and a Hipshit (ripoff of a Hipshot) bridge slapped on it.

Other companies have done it.

[OliverBlackman]

20 hours ago, Kev said:

But it's the very small % bit I'm also disagreeing with.  What % of modern Metal music, lets say the last couple of decades, would you say was recorded with Fender basses, for example? 

 

Don't get me wrong, Fender's impact and dominance in the 20th century can't be argued with, but I don't think it’s as B&W as it used to be, not anymore.

I didn’t specify modern metal, that is a niche field that represents a tiny % of music recorded. Not my genre, so you’ll probably know more than me for that specific.

 

20 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

I want to sound like me.

[Doctor J]

17 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I was thinking about it yesterday and there are some post-Leo Fender innovations, even if you don't like them or they fell a bit flat. Examples:

 

Micro-tilt neck.

Aerodyne body shape.

TBX tone control.

Partnership with Lace sensors.

Antigua finish...

'Paranormal' series mixing and matching features.

The little string hook thst fits on the A tuner.

Fender Fatfinger.

Grasping that the 'budget series' should offer a quality playing experience to help build loyalty and aspiration to the more expensive instruments. They are the masters of market segmentation.

Modelling amps that focus on one classic amp and do it well.

Custom shop.

Relicing.

 

The decisions in FMIC are being made by a board of directors looking at an Excel spreadsheet, not a hands-on visionary who will get inspired and take chances. Imagine the rigmarole someone in their design department must go through to get something through the various management layers and into development, never mind production. They can't innovate and get things to market quickly in the way a smaller builder can. The entire business model, decided at board level, is based on continual regurgitation and effective branding, unlike the Japanese manufacturers, for example, who seldom revisit the past, never mind try to stay there. Anything vaguely different (i.e. not another pointless jumble of existing parts) they've put out has been something which isn't strong enough to create a market of its own (like Mr. Fender himself was able to do several times with different brands) and usually something another brand has been doing better for decades. Still, they're promising innovation, let's see if it's just more marketing hot air. I'm genuinely curious.

[Kev]

3 hours ago, OliverBlackman said:

I didn’t specify modern metal, that is a niche field that represents a tiny % of music recorded. Not my genre, so you’ll probably know more than me for that specific.

 

Metal is rather broad! Not a tiny % by any measure.

 

Point is, Fender don't dominate like they did 30 years ago, there is a LOT of choice out there now and their lack of innovation has caused many to seek choices elsewhere. Sure the traditional stuff has a place, but not every place 👍🏻

[NancyJohnson]

20 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I was thinking about it yesterday and there are some post-Leo Fender innovations, even if you don't like them or they fell a bit flat. Examples:

 

Micro-tilt neck.

Aerodyne body shape.

TBX tone control.

Partnership with Lace sensors.

Antigua finish...

'Paranormal' series mixing and matching features.

The little string hook thst fits on the A tuner.

Fender Fatfinger.

Grasping that the 'budget series' should offer a quality playing experience to help build loyalty and aspiration to the more expensive instruments. They are the masters of market segmentation.

Modelling amps that focus on one classic amp and do it well.

Custom shop.

Relicing.

 

 

1. Micro-tilt neck.
If the fit and finish of new instruments was 100%, there should be no requirement for micro-tilt necks (or shims).  These are machine made basses/guitars; any adjustment should be able to be achieved with truss rod/bridge/fret-dressing.

 

2. Aerodyne body shape.
Well fundamentally, these are just Jazz/Precision body shapes with binding and without rolled edges or too much chamfering.  Surely Gibson were making Les Pauls in the 50s with binding and 90° edges?

 

3. TBX tone control.
Hmm.  Never seen one in use, but in theory doesn't it just ape a regular Varitone pot (which Gibson used on the Ripper)?

 

4. Partnership with Lace sensors.
Isn't this like saying Gibson partnering with DiMarzio or something?  Businesses collaborating with other businesses to create a product isn't particularly new.

 

5. Antigua finish...
Stretching things here Stub. 

 

6. 'Paranormal' series mixing and matching features.
FMIC board visiting Mexican/Japanese plants: "What are all those bodies and necks over there?"
Floor manager: "They're parts that we haven't put together yet."
FMIC board (hearing the sound of cash registers riging): "Try just building things from random parts, see what happens and report back in 48 hours.  We can give it a range name of something funky and sell our unused inventory at a bloated price, then pull the range once that junk is cleared.'

 

7. The little string hook thst fits on the A tuner.
WOW!

 

8. Fender Fatfinger.

Good grief.  I have some snake oil in my garage if you're interested.

 

9. Grasping that the 'budget series' should offer a quality playing experience to help build loyalty and aspiration to the more expensive instruments. They are the masters of market segmentation.
I think this is spot on. 

 

10. Modelling amps that focus on one classic amp and do it well.
Why not just keep producing those classic amps, rather than dozens of amps trying to be those classic amps.

 

11. Custom shop.
When Fender bought and shut down Hamer, Fender described Hamer as a custom shop; a small team of builders producing great instruments in reasonably small quantities/runs.  Hamer were building as long ago as 1977, ten years pre-Fender.

 

12. Relicing.

Nope, just nope.

[jd56hawk]

6 hours ago, prowla said:

There's nothing innovative about that: it's a P-bass with a vaguely Ric(ish) pickguard and a Hipshit (ripoff of a Hipshot) bridge slapped on it.

Other companies have done it.

Yes, that's why I said there's really nothing innovative about it.

[itu]

8 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

11. Custom shop.

When Fender bought and shut down Hamer, Fender described Hamer as a custom shop; a small team of builders producing great instruments in reasonably small quantities/runs.

Hamer would be a real, and interesting possibility, but I think they have to concentrate on those reliced models. Skilled workforce beating pristine instruments - must be a nightmare.

 

Fender marketing - because RnD is non existent - might drive Hamer to produce a P bass with some nice, limited run colour every year. Luthiery would be wasted, so they'd choose a CNC machine, and few Mexican construction workers.

 

No, Fender is not about innovation, just marketing the tradition.

[chris_b]

5 minutes ago, itu said:

. . . . Fender is not about innovation, just marketing the tradition.

 

And as I said earlier, they aren't even very good at that. Look at all the P and Jazz basses being made by other companies!!