Left hand thumb - behind 2nd finger?

[richh]

I've seen various videos and the rule of thumb (sorry about that) is that the position of the thumb should always be right behind the 2nd finger.

 

But... watching live players, it looks to me that some players have their thumb closer to the nut, nearer the 1st finger.  Anybody have any experience or thoughts please?

 

I understand the logic of this, but I'm curious if everybody actually does this.  It feels more comfortable to me to have the thumb further back.  Thanks for your info on this!

[JoeEvans]

I personally try not to fix the thumb in any one position. The focus for me is on the fingers, working on getting them to land on their tips so that the last joint is standing up on the string, not flat on it. Like that, the thumb isn't squeezing much - it wants to be relaxed and loose, just doing its own thing as it sees fit. Then as you come up the neck, the thumb slides up round the side and in due course hops onto the fingerboard to join the rest of the gang.

[richh]

Thanks, appreciate the feedback, looking forward to hearing how other people do this!

[hubrad]

2 piccies.. 1st position I have my thumb right between 1st and 2nd fingers. When I get to the heel of the neck it's behind the first then comes around to the side of the fingerboard. Working on thumb position.

Not something I've specifically concentrated on, but by far the most comfortable positioning so I can get on with the playing. 

A good teacher may well point out the shortcomings of my thinking!

[PaulWarning]

having my bass low, I spend a lot of time with my thumb rapped around the neck to damp the E string, I don't actually think about where my thumb is

edit, oh yeah I play with a pick

another edit, I just played some songs, my thumb is never behind the neck, always on top

Edited October 11 by PaulWarning

[NickA]

On 11/10/2024 at 12:05, PaulWarning said:

edit, oh yeah I play with a pick

Guess that's not a double bass then! 😂.  Tho left hand thumb damping the e string is somewhat unorthodox even on electric!

 

Personally I aspire to thumb behind second finger ( on dB and electric)

 

But that's maybe my cellist upbringing.  With all the forward and backward finger extensions cellists use, it's essential to know where your thumb is as that's what defines your "position". Also from a sustain / tenuto / vibrato perspective finger 2 is usually considered the strongest so having your thumb behind it is handy.

 

On a double bass your position is more defined by where your index finger is placed, so thumb is less important .. and I find that my thumb usually ends up between index and middle finger.  At the neck, having the joy of an Eflat neck (😁) I have two options, but usually go for first finger on D and thumb behind 2nd finger, but can shift to first finger on Eflat and thumb behind first finger before going for thumb positions.

 

However, if you plan on using (Rabbatt) pivots, you need to know where your thumb is!  Exactly where might not be important, but consistency matters.

 

 

 

[PaulWarning]

31 minutes ago, NickA said:

Guess that's not a double bass then! 😂.  Tho left hand thumb damping the e string is somewhat unorthodox even on electric!

 

Personally I aspire to thumb behind second finger ( on dB and electric)

 

But that's maybe my cellist upbringing.  With all the forward and backward finger extensions cellists use, it's essential to know where your thumb is as that's what defines your "position". Also from a sustain / tenuto / vibrato perspective finger 2 is usually considered the strongest so having your thumb behind it is handy.

 

On a double bass your position is more defined by where your index finger is placed, so thumb is less important .. and I find that my thumb usually ends up between index and middle finger.  At the neck, having the joy of an Eflat neck (😁) I have two options, but usually go for first finger on D and thumb behind 2nd finger, but can shift to first finger on Eflat and thumb behind first finger before going for thumb positions.

 

However, if you plan on using (Rabbatt) pivots, you need to know where your thumb is!  Exactly where might not be important, but consistency matters.

 

 

 

opps, silly me, didn't notice it was on the DB forum 😒

[neilp]

In my youth, when I was seriously pursuing a musical career, my thumb lived consistently exactly behind my second finger. In my early 20s I had a car accident and broke the scaphoid in my left hand. Since then  the base of my left thumb has been slightly deformed and slightly less mobile, so my thumb has migrated to a comfortable position closer to my first finger. There has to be some flexibility in technique to allow for individual anatomy  - my long 2nd and 3rd fingers make thumb position interesting too - but try not to deviate too far from the "ideal", what initially feels good may end up doing you damage!

[Hellzero]

Isn't the thumb the first finger?

[Bloopdad1]

How to get the perfect left hand position....

1, sit at a table with a standard pint glass in front of you. 

2, In a relaxed way pick up the pint with your left hand. 

3, look at your hand position around the glass. 

4, that's the perfect technique...

 

Simple 

 

Relaxed hand, fingers mobile, thumb basically opposite the second finger, slight curve in the thumb joints. 

On the bass it'll obviously just be the ball of your thumb and finger pads in contact with the neck / strings. 

 

(I bet you're all doing the pint thing now 🤣) 

You're welcome. 

[JohnH89]

12 minutes ago, Bloopdad1 said:

How to get the perfect left hand position....

1, sit at a table with a standard pint glass in front of you. 

2, In a relaxed way pick up the pint with your left hand. 

3, look at your hand position around the glass. 

4, that's the perfect technique...

 

Simple 

 

Relaxed hand, fingers mobile, thumb basically opposite the second finger, slight curve in the thumb joints. 

On the bass it'll obviously just be the ball of your thumb and finger pads in contact with the neck / strings. 

 

(I bet you're all doing the pint thing now 🤣) 

You're welcome. 

Not quite got the hang of that after 45years . Best I practice with a few more pints until I've nailed it . I love basschat for all these great ideas . 🍺

[hubrad]

Nice idea, but if the ball of your thumb is in contact with the neck you'll be seriously limiting your finger spread, very noticeably so on double bass.

[NickA]

1 hour ago, hubrad said:

Nice idea, but if the ball of your thumb is in contact with the neck you'll be seriously limiting your finger spread, very noticeably so on double bass.

Explain please.  My finger spread is limited by my short fat fingers, don't understand why my thumb is limiting it. 

 

Think bloopdad means the thumb pad ( the squishy bit opposite the thumb nail) rather than what is called ( I just learned) the "Thenar Eminence".

[hubrad]

Hmm.. interesting. I've only ever heard of ball of thumb as the bit at the base, as you say "Thenar Eminence" is a name I've just been introduced to so thanks for that. Wikipedia suggests that nowadays it can also be used as the pad at the tip end, not at all confusing!

Anyway, on any instrument, if your fretting hand is on the neck in a club or cradling hold, so base of the thumb against the neck, try your maximum stretch 1st to 4th finger (we *are* all using your 4th finger, aren't we?). Now try it with the pad or tip of your thumb on the back of the neck.. gives me a good couple of inches more range, which especially on double bass means way better flexibility and far fewer position shifts. 

[Hellzero]

Moan on.

 

First finger = thumb

Second finger = index

Third finger = major

Fourth finger = annular

Fifth finger = auricular

 

Instead of using the same stupid terminology as electric bass player naming their pickups front or rear 🤦, simply use the correct names for your fingers, everybody will instantly and clearly understand what you mean.

 

Moan off.

 

Edited October 22 by Hellzero

[hubrad]

16 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Moan on.

 

First finger = thumb

Second finger = index

Third finger = major

Fourth finger = annular

Fifth finger = auricular

 

Instead of using the same stupid terminology as electric bass player naming their pickups front or rear 🤦, simply use the correct names for your fingers, everybody will instantly and clearly understand what you mean.

 

Moan off.

 

Gonna have to rewrite all the instruction and teaching books ever, there! 😀

[NickA]

2 hours ago, hubrad said:

if your fretting hand is on the neck in a club or cradling hold

One of my major gripes about electric bass players .. even some quite well known electric bass players:

Though in fairness ... my recent battle with Sibelius did involve a lot of cradling the neck and squeezing it in the fabled "bunch of bananas" technique. Mr Chancellor here may have been playing the same note for 30 minutes.

[Burns-bass]

11 minutes ago, NickA said:

One of my major gripes about electric bass players .. even some quite well known electric bass players:

Though in fairness ... my recent battle with Sibelius did involve a lot of cradling the neck and squeezing it in the fabled "bunch of bananas" technique. Mr Chancellor here may have been playing the same note for 30 minutes.

Not sure why this would upset you.

 

If I he was trying out for your community orchestra then fair enough, but he’s probably happy playing in front of 40,000 people each nigh before in sipping champagne in his solid gold bath. 

[Bloopdad1]

16 hours ago, NickA said:

Explain please.  My finger spread is limited by my short fat fingers, don't understand why my thumb is limiting it. 

 

Think bloopdad means the thumb pad ( the squishy bit opposite the thumb nail) rather than what is called ( I just learned) the "Thenar Eminence".

Yep, the "thumb pad" at the tip of the thumb. 

Apart from one of my fellow section members (he insists on using a Rabbath pivot!) we all use the same "grab-a-pint" hand shape.. 

(unless we're playing that stupid bit in Beethoven 6th...then it's every man for himself!!! 🤣) 

[NickA]

8 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

Not sure why this would upset you

Because he could be so much better!  Evident musical talent but limiting technique.  Though he probably goes home and rattles off bach cello suites with impeccable technique when he's not being a Tool of course.

 

I have much lesser but slightly similar feelings about Jaco playing a fender😂😂.

 

6 hours ago, Bloopdad1 said:

Rabbath pivot!

How does that change your thumb position.  I guess you mean that the whole hand moves relative to the thumb, so it's not always behind finger2. OK. But that's still it's basic "return to" position, yes?

 

As for Beethoven 6 ... A saddening thing as I mostly really like Beethoven.  The trite and tedious pastoral, not so much (except the opening theme)  "The thunderstorm" I've decided is an "effect" so  I just make a rumbling noise.

 

( Note re above postings ...I have a bad cold and probably off my head on night nurse ... But I did delete a personal assesment of tool fans and JC wannabes) 😉

 

[hpc364]

When I took my first guitar lesson (classical guitar) 32 years ago, my teacher put a velcro, my thumb was between 2nd and 3rd fingers. Why ?

Because when your thumb is not at the right place your pinky is useless, you've got a very weak grip and a lack of flexibility.

[hpc364]

 

[zbd1960]

On 19/10/2024 at 22:31, Hellzero said:

Isn't the thumb the first finger?

String players and pianists number fingers differently.... Piano fingering has thumb as 1, whereas string players index finger is 1

[Burns-bass]

21 hours ago, NickA said:

Because he could be so much better!  Evident musical talent but limiting technique.  Though he probably goes home and rattles off bach cello suites with impeccable technique when he's not being a Tool of course.

 

I have much lesser but slightly similar feelings about Jaco playing a fender😂😂.

 

How does that change your thumb position.  I guess you mean that the whole hand moves relative to the thumb, so it's not always behind finger2. OK. But that's still it's basic "return to" position, yes?

 

As for Beethoven 6 ... A saddening thing as I mostly really like Beethoven.  The trite and tedious pastoral, not so much (except the opening theme)  "The thunderstorm" I've decided is an "effect" so  I just make a rumbling noise.

 

( Note re above postings ...I have a bad cold and probably off my head on night nurse ... But I did delete a personal assesment of tool fans and JC wannabes) 😉

 

Point made.

 

I hate average punters having a pop at the band but I remember a bass teacher coming up to me after the gig and telling me of a technical fault. (I used to thump the string while it was muted to keep time.)

 

Once I noticed it, I fixed it quickly and now play a lot better.

[Hellzero]

14 hours ago, zbd1960 said:

String players and pianists number fingers differently.... Piano fingering has thumb as 1, whereas string players index finger is 1

I play both... 😉