demonfx "Tone mallet" 😂

[thisisswanbon]

5 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

The DemonFX Twin Fomage & Sizzling Pig sandwich? 

I saw this and immediately thought DemonFX had copied the Way Huge Pork & Pickle!

[thisisswanbon]

They've started strong with their endorsing artists... seems legit 🤔

 

 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

I have their Pearl White (a Snow White autowah clone). It is really good.

 

The copying of circuits that a lot of time, effort and therefore expense has gone into designing is dubious. But if the circuit designs aren't patented then it isn't protected.

 

Copyright applies to the visual depiction of a circuit embodied in a schematic, but not the circuit itself.

 

In other words it doesn't appear to be ilegal to copy a circuit functionality as long as you design the circuit board from scratch.

[Higgins.plays.bass]

James at Affordaboard’s posting me one out to demo, should be with me early next week. I’ll post my findings & some demos once I get a chance to record.

[Boodang]

Interestingly, according to the blurb, the whole of the USA designed it!

[Quatschmacher]

As much as competition can be a good thing, I do feel a certain annoyance at companies riding on the coattails of others in this manner. Sure, if the products in question are no longer being produced or the patent has entered the public domain then fine, but putting out knockoffs of in-production products is just disingenuous. Rather like Behringer’s practice with stuff like their Swing (a blatant rip-off off the Arturia Keystep).

Edited November 15, 2024 by Quatschmacher

[Sibob]

On 13/11/2024 at 23:17, Stub Mandrel said:

I have their Pearl White (a Snow White autowah clone). It is really good.

 

The copying of circuits that a lot of time, effort and therefore expense has gone into designing is dubious. But if the circuit designs aren't patented then it isn't protected.

 

Copyright applies to the visual depiction of a circuit embodied in a schematic, but not the circuit itself.

 

In other words it doesn't appear to be ilegal to copy a circuit functionality as long as you design the circuit board from scratch.

Yet DemonFX are out here copying artwork, enclosure shape/colours, fonts, names etc etc.

No-one is annoyed at a clone effect necessarily, the primary issue comes when they’re counterfeiting the entire package.

 

Si

[SumOne]

1 hour ago, Sibob said:

Yet DemonFX are out here copying artwork, enclosure shape/colours, fonts, names etc etc.

No-one is annoyed at a clone effect necessarily, the primary issue comes when they’re counterfeiting the entire package.

 

Si

I suppose though, they are at least being honest about it being a copy and not the original, they give it a cheeky different name. They could just as easily directly copy everything, it'd actually be easier - like the Louis Vuitton bags on sale at Hounslow West market. 

[Sibob]

3 minutes ago, SumOne said:

I suppose though, they are at least being honest about it being a copy and not the original, they give it a cheeky different name. They could just as easily directly copy everything, it'd actually be easier - like the Louis Vuitton bags on sale at Hounslow West market. 

 

Counterfeiters.

 

Si

[SumOne]

1 minute ago, Sibob said:

 

Counterfeiters.

 

Si

It says 'Demonfx' on it, that's a poor counterfeit! 

[LukeFRC]

There’s two things…

 

analogue circuits - which you can’t copyright or patent 

so fair game for behringer/jhs/joyo/demonFX to copy. In diystompboxes / freestompboxes world some things from smaller makers sometimes get left alone, but then there’s a few pedals out there where the diy community mods then get sold back to people as a “boutique” pedal…

 

design and trade dress - which is absolutely protectable under eu/uk/us law- where you take the design and copy it. This isn’t cool and where DemonFX probably overstep the line, but there’s a fine line - as Aldi packaging aping the premium brand is on the right side of the line…

 

counterfit is where the pedal is trying to copy the real thing and be indistinguishable to it - DemonFX aren’t doing that.

[LukeFRC]

9 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

There’s two things…

 

analogue circuits - which you can’t copyright or patent 

so fair game for behringer/jhs/joyo/demonFX to copy. In diystompboxes / freestompboxes world some things from smaller makers sometimes get left alone, but then there’s a few pedals out there where the diy community mods then get sold back to people as a “boutique” pedal…

 

design and trade dress - which is absolutely protectable under eu/uk/us law- where you take the design and copy it. This isn’t cool and where DemonFX probably overstep the line, but there’s a fine line - as Aldi packaging aping the premium brand is on the right side of the line…

 

counterfit is where the pedal is trying to copy the real thing and be indistinguishable to it - DemonFX aren’t doing that.

Also to be clear I would be uncomfortable having a DemonFX and would want to sand off the Aldi like branding 

[Sibob]

We’ll agree to disagree, my opinion is that it’s their intent to deceive, on whatever level.

The litmus test would be to produce those same pedals in a country that is WAY more consistent with enforcing it’s IP legal framework, and let us know how many days it takes to receive the cease and desist 🤷‍♂️.

 

People will buy what they want, the free market wins out and there will always be loopholes ‘acceptable’ exceptions through precedent…but we exist in a relatively tiny (bass) industry…and I’m sure we’d all like to continue having nice things available to us. DemonFX are some peoples acceptable exception, not for me. 

 

Si 

[Supernaut]

I believe the term is 'homage'. 

[SumOne]

20 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

I believe the term is 'homage'. 

And 'inspired by' 

[thisisswanbon]

The official tag line says it best...

 

[Higgins.plays.bass]

So, finally got around to dropping a little sound demo of the Tone Mallet, & IMO? It sounds pretty damn great!

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCzoKvSR1cb/?igsh=N203dW12dWlwY3Qw

[paul_5]

great sounding pedal (and playing too)!

[Stub Mandrel]

Latest Pedal "Fat Mouse" = "Fat Rat'

[glassmoon]

So mine arrived this past week, and although I've only had a very brief time in which to play around with it, here are my thoughts and impressions.

Context:
I wanted this for my older model, Ibanez btb556. Great bass, weak preamp. Instead of dropping £200 on a quality preamp, I thought this would be an option.

Sound:
Within a few seconds, I was able to get a really big sound. Very warm and rounded (which I wanted). I left the treble at 12 o'clock, boosted the bass a bit, boosted the mods a bit, with the mid frequency probably in the 200-250 range. The sound was not immediately reminiscent of the OG TH, but to be honest, that was several years ago, so I am basing my comparison on the Tone Hammer plugin, and it's veeeeeeery close. I can honestly say the sound is very good.

AGS:
I never used this on the original as the volume disparity was too great for live usage, but DemonFX seem to have closed the gap to make this a possible live usage pedal. To my memory, the OG was a bit harsh too, while the DFX seems to be a little smoother to my ears. Win.

Conclusions:
This pedal is quiet. I wasn't sure if I was expecting noise or not, but there is not a crack nor hiss to be found.
As a preamp, it does all I could've hoped for, and more.
The drive circuit is more user friendly than expected.
It's built like a tank.
And for £60 shipped to my door in 3 days (not 100% sure of the AliExpress route just yet on anything more than a scratch plate or knobs) it's a win price-wise.

I know the argument prevails that this is as blatant a rip-off of the Aguilar pedal, and make no mistake, it absolutely is (without it being green), but for the price-conscientious (like me) it's a great opportunity to experience the Aguilar sound. And hey, both are made in China and who knows, possibly in the same facility...

Anyhow, I hope that helps.

Julian aka Glassmoon

[Al Krow]

On 16/11/2024 at 09:31, Sibob said:

We’ll agree to disagree, my opinion is that it’s their intent to deceive, on whatever level.

The litmus test would be to produce those same pedals in a country that is WAY more consistent with enforcing it’s IP legal framework, and let us know how many days it takes to receive the cease and desist 🤷‍♂️.

 

People will buy what they want, the free market wins out and there will always be loopholes ‘acceptable’ exceptions through precedent…but we exist in a relatively tiny (bass) industry…and I’m sure we’d all like to continue having nice things available to us. DemonFX are some peoples acceptable exception, not for me. 

 

Si 

 

This is a really interesting topic. I think a lot of folk have got comfortable with Joyo and Behringer these days? Several of us really liked the Valeton OC-2 clone, particularly with the more compact housing than the Boss, although Boss seem to have successfully shut down production of that even though the package it came was very different to the Boss pedals.

 

And dammit @glassmoon's review makes this a very tempting purchase as they seem to have improved on some of the flaws of the original e.g. the volume disparity of the OGS circuit.

 

Is there a parallel to the live music that we engage in, rather than the electronic most of us don't have the expertise to make, would your same logic apply to Tribute bands? Should they only be allowed to perform with the express agreement of the bands they are copying? Or are they targeting a completely different audience to the original bands in terms of ticket pricing and venues? 

 

Edited November 26, 2024 by Al Krow

[LukeFRC]

54 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

although Boss seem to have successfully shut down production of that even though the package it came was very different to the Boss pedals.

doubt it, they're still on their website - it's more likely they just shifted to some more profitable products

[LukeFRC]

In church world we report on the songs sung every year to PRS who then use that information to pay royalties I think. I imagine a venue putting on cover bands theoretically would do the same? 

It's not quite the right analogy though - you can't copyright an electrical circuit in most cases so the thing that sales close to the wind or over the line is the trade dress. 
It would be like your cover band saying you are the real band. 

I leave you with a photo of some Lidl malt wheaties, which is the same thing, but more edible... 

 

I also found the photo on google and am sharing it unattributed - which is actually more of an issue than the DemonFX pedal...  

 

 

[Sibob]

3 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

In church world we report on the songs sung every year to PRS who then use that information to pay royalties I think. I imagine a venue putting on cover bands theoretically would do the same? 

It's not quite the right analogy though - you can't copyright an electrical circuit in most cases so the thing that sales close to the wind or over the line is the trade dress. 
It would be like your cover band saying you are the real band. 

I leave you with a photo of some Lidl malt wheaties, which is the same thing, but more edible... 

 

I also found the photo on google and am sharing it unattributed - which is actually more of an issue than the DemonFX pedal...  

 

 

Yes, now if they’d called them Shreddies, we’d be into DemonFX territory.

 

Si

[paul_5]

You can only copyright the layout design apparently, so designing a pcb with the same circuit but different traces is ok.