Recommend me a wireless system

[peteb]

2 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

Some very expensive hi-end brands being recommended here (above) and - while I'm sure they're all absolute killer devices - I'm competely unconvinced that they're the best route forward.

 

All rechargeable batteries will fade away and (eventually) die, so spending £458 on that Shure outfit seems like an awful lot of money for something that you'll be chucking in a skip sometime around 2027.

 

If you've not used wireless before then I'd strongly suggest you experiment first with the really cheap stuff (Joyo, Lekato, etc.) which my reasonably extensive experience suggests is at least 90% as good as the top-end stuff whilst costing 90% less.

 

I started out with https://www.gak.co.uk/en/xvive-xu2-wireless-instrument-system-black

 

When the batteries started to fade, I experimented with https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305814068759 and with https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186311571177

 

Following a recommendation from @stewblack I also bought https://www.amazon.co.uk/JOYO-Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver-Instruments/dp/B0CRKS96NS

 

And my experience? They all work. They work just fine, and if there's any difference between the performance of the Joyo and the XVive systems then I've never been able to spot it. I play pubs and clubs, beer gardens and festival stages. I use passive and active basses, 4-string and 5-string.

 

The only basses I own that have any trouble with wireless systems are double basses - all of them - and I don't understand why. It seems to make no difference whether I'm using piezo or magnetic pickups, full-sized DBs or my Kolstein Busetto, even whether the bass is plywood or aluminium. The strength of the string vibration seems occasionally to overpower the wireless signal producing a juddering sound that reminds me of the ABS cutting in when doing an emergency stop.

 

Incidentally, the combined cost of ALL FOUR units referenced above was roughly HALF the cost of a single Shure GLXD16. I love Shure kit and I own a fair amount of it, but £458 for a wireless system? Your 'avin' a giraffe.

 

 

I'm afraid that I take a very different view. I've had loads of wireless systems since they first came out decades ago (remember the old illegal Nady systems that always used to pick up local taxi firms in the middle of gigs) and all of them were c*ap and I ended up going back to leads! I got the GLDX16 not that long after it came out (about ten years ago?) and it just works as it should do. It's done hundreds of gigs and the battery is still perfectly good, no latency issues, works fine on bass and sounds as good as you would expect. My advice is to pay a bit more and buy once, rather than get cheaper alternatives that you will get rid off and replace because they don't work as well as the better kit. It's arguably cheaper, and certainly better. 

 

I've got an xvive system that I picked up for £30 or so on eBay and while it's OK for around the house, personally I wouldn't trust it on a gig. The Shure is in a completely different class. 

 

[Twigman]

13 minutes ago, peteb said:

My advice is to pay a bit more and buy once, rather than get cheaper alternatives that you will get rid off and replace because they don't work as well as the better kit. It's arguably cheaper, and certainly better. 

 

I generally live by this rule these days - buy cheap, buy twice is very true in my experience.

[BigRedX]

The GLDX16 looks fine if you already have a traditional pedal board with spare capacity on the PSU, but that certainly doesn't make sense for me. I don't need a tuner - there's already a really good one in the Helix. I would need a PSU for the receiver and AFAICS it's not on a locking socket which means I'd need to have a pedal board which suddenly means everything takes up more floor space on stage. I'll stick with my cheap and compact NUX until I have a major problem, hopefully by which time I'll be playing bigger stages and have bigger band transport for all the extra equipment.

[Al Krow]

7 hours ago, BigRedX said:

That can't be right. I use mine continuously at rehearsals which are about 3 hours long, and when I next plug them in the recharge the LED meter is only showing one segment down from full charge.

 

I think the LED meter you are referring to is actually showing how much charge there is still in the power case? How drained the battery is instead shown up by the colour of the light on the LED indicator on the transmitter and receiver units.

 

@Twigman: per the manual: a fully charged Nux power case can recharge the wireless system 2-3 times, which actually is a very useful feature (but just need to remember to engage the charge button, haha!)

The manual also states that when fully charged the transmitter / receiver should work for around 4 hours - which I assume applies to a relatively new unit. I'm just checking what my 2-3 year old units can still manage on a full charge when paired (and not in the charge box!)

Edited October 17 by Al Krow

[Twigman]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

hopefully by which time I'll be playing bigger stages and have bigger band transport for all the extra equipment.

 

Been hoping for that kind of situation for 40odd years LOL - closest I've come was last month's festival in Spain playing on the same (huge) stage as The Mission and The Charlatans - the amount of gear they had was impressive - towed in dedicated trailers behind their sleeper coaches..we had the relative luxury of a 4* hotel and Easyjet  LOL

[tauzero]

9 hours ago, Twigman said:

Do you chaps mean this system?

 

https://www.thomann.co.uk/nux_c_5rc_wireless_system.htm

 

That looks just the ticket and is a far smaller financial commitment than the Shure.....  

 

Oh, so you're not committed to the receiver being on the pedalboard powered by the pedalboard PSU? In that case, I can also suggest the Lekato WS-50 and WS-90. I use them both, the WS-90 is a bit bigger but has a longer battery life, a long enough reach to cope with Ibanez sockets, and you can also select which channel (of four) you want to use.

[tauzero]

4 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

on the subject of wireless systems, are they all 'line of sight', as I stated earlier the one problem I've found with my Boss WL 20 is it cuts out if something gets in the way, but are they all like that?

 

No, my Lekato WS-90 is quite happy if I go walkabout with a few bags of dirty water (ie people) and a brick pillar intervening between Tx and Rx.

[Twigman]

12 minutes ago, tauzero said:

Oh, so you're not committed to the receiver being on the pedalboard

A dongle plugged into the pedalboard input potentially works…not too keen on it needing to be charged - I have noticed though that 400-500mA power is required for the pedalboard solutions - I already use a current doubler for one of my other pedals  so using the pedalboard psu might not be possible while keeping my other pedals. I also didn’t realise that pedalboard solutions have built in tuners - not necessary at all. I know the boss solution has no tuner but stipulates a boss psu only and also charges the Tx on a side which would be obstructed if mounted on my board, hence my interest in other solutions.

[ped]

I’ve got a Boss WL20 which sounds good and battery life is fine but for some reason (probably the band?) it cuts out a fair bit in our practice studio. 
 

I have just bought a 5.8ghz Joyo system that @Happy Jack linked to. Got a ‘used like new’ on Amazon and used some gift voucher balance. Will be interesting to try it. The Boss didn't introduce any noise but it did change the treble sound of my bass slightly when I really listen - obviously fine for gigs though. 
 

As I use a Backbeat then the transmitter sits in the unit on my strap, out of the way. The receiver will stick out of my pedalboard a bit but I might get a right angle cable to move it away from the edge of the board where I’m paranoid that someone will step on it!

 

 

[Al Krow]

19 minutes ago, ped said:

I’ve got a Boss WL20 which sounds good and battery life is fine but for some reason (probably the band?) it cuts out a fair bit in our practice studio. I

 

Drop-outs were the exact same reason I also moved on from the Boss WL-20, which otherwise was a really good bit of kit. It operates in the crowded 2.4 GHz space and experiencing drop outs mid-gig was not great.

5.8 GHz kit does seem to work much better from that perspective. Be interested to see how you get on with the Joyo, clearly there's a few fans of that set up on this thread already. They seem to have adopted quite a few features of the Nux (other than the ability to angle the transmitter and receiver, which sounds like you might have valued @ped?), particularly the recharge pack set up. And at £75 new, they are 40% cheaper than the Nux.

[ped]

7 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Drop-outs were the exact same reason I also moved on from the Boss WL-20, which otherwise was a really good bit of kit. It operates in the crowded 2.4 GHz space and experiencing drop outs mid-gig was not great.

5.8 GHz kit does seem to work much better from that perspective. Be interested to see how you get on with the Joyo, clearly there's a few fans of that set up on this thread already. They seem to have adopted quite a few features of the Nux (other than the ability to angle the transmitter and receiver, which sounds like you might have valued @ped?), particularly the recharge pack set up. And at £75 new, they are 40% cheaper than the Nux.

Yeah I wouldn’t have minded being able to angle the receiver but I can work around it. I got mine for £50 🤩

[tauzero]

58 minutes ago, Twigman said:

A dongle plugged into the pedalboard input potentially works…not too keen on it needing to be charged - I have noticed though that 400-500mA power is required for the pedalboard solutions - I already use a current doubler for one of my other pedals  so using the pedalboard psu might not be possible while keeping my other pedals. I also didn’t realise that pedalboard solutions have built in tuners - not necessary at all. I know the boss solution has no tuner but stipulates a boss psu only and also charges the Tx on a side which would be obstructed if mounted on my board, hence my interest in other solutions.

 

Neither the Harley Benton, the Line 6 G50, nor the Smoothhound have built in tuners. Power requirements are rather less than that, mine all happily run off 100mA outlets. The Smoothhound is slightly awkward as it's reverse polarity but that's not a huge hurdle.

 

The HB is 5.8GHz and, as previously mentioned, will charge the transmitter off the cradle on the receiver (which is on top rather than on the side). The others are 2.4GHz and the transmitters run off batteries - rechargeables can be used.

[PaulWarning]

1 hour ago, ped said:

I’ve got a Boss WL20 which sounds good and battery life is fine but for some reason (probably the band?) it cuts out a fair bit in our practice studio. 
 

I have just bought a 5.8ghz Joyo system that @Happy Jack linked to. Got a ‘used like new’ on Amazon and used some gift voucher balance. Will be interesting to try it. The Boss didn't introduce any noise but it did change the treble sound of my bass slightly when I really listen - obviously fine for gigs though. 
 

As I use a Backbeat then the transmitter sits in the unit on my strap, out of the way. The receiver will stick out of my pedalboard a bit but I might get a right angle cable to move it away from the edge of the board where I’m paranoid that someone will step on it!

 

 

Probably a stupid question but did you join them together to search for a free channel?

[ped]

14 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

Probably a stupid question but did you join them together to search for a free channel?

Yeah, sometimes that helps if I do it a few times. 

[dudewheresmybass]

On the subject of powering the systems, I recently did a large 3k festival with a small board, including the glxd+, a boss rc3 and a couple of other pedals using a usb powered multiway splitter and mobile phone charger. It handled everything without a grumble from a 10000mah brick. 
One of these - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395698273772?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=9i8vcyy4re2&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=2qBK-qb7QYq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

in fact I usually use this power setup as I always prefer to have as few power supplies as possible at front of house and means potentially quicker crossovers at busy festivals. 

Edited October 18 by dudewheresmybass

[Al Krow]

23 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

I think the LED meter you are referring to is actually showing how much charge there is still in the power case? How drained the battery is instead shown up by the colour of the light on the LED indicator on the transmitter and receiver units.

 

@Twigman: per the manual: a fully charged Nux power case can recharge the wireless system 2-3 times, which actually is a very useful feature (but just need to remember to engage the charge button, haha!)

The manual also states that when fully charged the transmitter / receiver should work for around 4 hours - which I assume applies to a relatively new unit. I'm just checking what my 2-3 year old units can still manage on a full charge when paired (and not in the charge box!)

 

Nux 5.8GHz - Battery Life Test

I fully charged the Nux 5.8GHz and set it up so that the transmitter was connected to the output of my Zoom B1-4 with drum machine playing (in place of my bass output), and receiver into the input of a preamp pedal (both pedals loose and powered up) to try to give it a realistic set up, rather than simply switch the transmitter and receiver on next to each other in isolation.

 

The manual suggests "around 4 hours" of battery life.

My 2-3 year old ones, which I bought used and have gigged 100+ times over the past 18 months managed pretty much exactly 5 hours before the transmitter gave out (receiver had a little bit of battery life left in still, but was on "red")

 

Actually that's better than I was expecting! So I think I can be pretty relaxed for most gigging situations, other than some function gigs where there's quite a gap between set up / sound check and finishing the second set, where I'll just need to remember to switch the units off. In addition, the storage case doubles up as a battery recharger which gives another back-up, if needed.

 

@Lozz196 @BigRedX - hopefully that ties in with your experience and provides all 3 of us with some reassurance when playing live with the Nux wireless?

[Jack]

On 17/10/2024 at 13:58, Happy Jack said:

Some very expensive hi-end brands being recommended here (above) and - while I'm sure they're all absolute killer devices - I'm competely unconvinced that they're the best route forward.

 

All rechargeable batteries will fade away and (eventually) die, so spending £458 on that Shure outfit seems like an awful lot of money for something that you'll be chucking in a skip sometime around 2027.

 

If you've not used wireless before then I'd strongly suggest you experiment first with the really cheap stuff (Joyo, Lekato, etc.) which my reasonably extensive experience suggests is at least 90% as good as the top-end stuff whilst costing 90% less.

 

I started out with https://www.gak.co.uk/en/xvive-xu2-wireless-instrument-system-black

 

When the batteries started to fade, I experimented with https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305814068759 and with https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186311571177

 

Following a recommendation from @stewblack I also bought https://www.amazon.co.uk/JOYO-Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver-Instruments/dp/B0CRKS96NS

 

And my experience? They all work. They work just fine, and if there's any difference between the performance of the Joyo and the XVive systems then I've never been able to spot it. I play pubs and clubs, beer gardens and festival stages. I use passive and active basses, 4-string and 5-string.

 

The only basses I own that have any trouble with wireless systems are double basses - all of them - and I don't understand why. It seems to make no difference whether I'm using piezo or magnetic pickups, full-sized DBs or my Kolstein Busetto, even whether the bass is plywood or aluminium. The strength of the string vibration seems occasionally to overpower the wireless signal producing a juddering sound that reminds me of the ABS cutting in when doing an emergency stop.

 

Incidentally, the combined cost of ALL FOUR units referenced above was roughly HALF the cost of a single Shure GLXD16. I love Shure kit and I own a fair amount of it, but £458 for a wireless system? Your 'avin' a giraffe.

 

Just for the record you can replace the batteries on the shure units. It's the same one used by most if their wireless mics and very readily available. 

 

Go glx, by far the best consumer unit. 

o

[Al Krow]

46 minutes ago, Jack said:

Just for the record you can replace the batteries on the shure units. It's the same one used by most if their wireless mics and very readily available. 

 

Go glx, by far the best consumer unit. 

o

 

Was the reason for the double post @Jack because you've got two Shure GLXD16s - one for each of the units? 

 

I guess you're not of the school of thought that says they're over-priced then! 😅

[Jack]

22 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Was the reason for the double post @Jack because you've got two Shure GLXD16s - one for each of the units? 

 

I guess you're not of the school of thought that says they're over-priced then! 😅

I design training for a living. Say what you're gonna say, say it, and then say that you've said it. If something is worth saying it's worth saying twice. Yeah I reported my own post immediately, sorry guys. 🤫

 

I know you're poking fun but genuinely I've had (off the top of my head) a Line 6 G10, G30, G55, a Smoothound, some Lekato bugs, and now these. To be honest they're all broadly fine but I do think the Shures are a step above the rest. I have literally had one dropout in 5-6 years, the format is great, the thing is well built, the tuner means I don't have to waste a helix footswitch or have a separate tuner on my analogue board, you can trade latency for stability if you need to, the batteries last forever (and are replaceable when they stop lasting forever), it scans for the best channel automatically, etc etc.

 

I think that at some point soon I'm going to get a Quad Cortex and when I do I will probably upgrade to the new GLX+ as I think the input jack is a great idea and something I've missed in my current setup but I'm in no hurry. I've had these boards for 5 years or so now and I just don't want an 'interesting' rig. I want to just have stuff work and focus on playing, which I find hard enough!

 

£300 used or £500 new is admittedly a lot of money but no they are not overpriced. They are expensive and worth it. The only thing 'above' these are the proper pro units costing thousands.

Edited Friday at 19:29 by Jack

[Jack]

Oh come on, what's going here? Again!

Edited Friday at 19:29 by Jack

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, Jack said:

I design training for a living. Say what you're gonna say, say it, and then say that you've said it. If something is worth saying it's worth saying twice. Yeah I reported my own post immediately, sorry guys. 🤫

 

I know you're poking fun but genuinely I've had (off the top of my head) a Line 6 G10, G30, G55, a Smoothound, some Lekato bugs, and now these. To be honest they're all broadly fine but I do think the Shures are a step above the rest. I have literally had one dropout in 5-6 years, the format is great, the thing is well built, the tuner means I don't have to waste a helix footswitch or have a separate tuner on my analogue board, you can trade latency for stability if you need to, the batteries last forever (and are replaceable when they stop lasting forever), it scans for the best channel automatically, etc etc.

 

I think that at some point soon I'm going to get a Quad Cortex and when I do I will probably upgrade to the new GLX+ as I think the input jack is a great idea and something I've missed in my current setup but I'm in no hurry. I've had these boards for 5 years or so now and I just don't want an 'interesting' rig. I want to just have stuff work and focus on playing, which I find hard enough!

 

£300 used or £500 new is admittedly a lot of money but no they are not overpriced. They are expensive and worth it. The only thing 'above' these are the proper pro units costing thousands.

 

On a more serious note, I personally don't have an issue with folk getting the best kit they can comfortably afford,  that works for them. (I mean a double bass can easily cost north of £10k by itself, which is more than all my herd of basses cost together!)

 

Personally I'm really happy with my Nux bugs having tried Smoothhound, Boss WL-20 and Lekato WL-50. Those were all decent, but the Nux is the best of that bunch for me and cost <£100 second hand. 

 

But if you're getting paid a decent sum to do a gig (or even if you're not, but I guess there's maybe more at stake for you and your bandmates if you are?) and you're finding that the better more expensive Shures are the right answer for you to give you peace of mind, particularly when you've tried a bunch of alternatives as you have, I don't think it's for the rest of us to quibble? Just my tuppence worth.

[Jack]

28 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

On a more serious note, I personally don't have an issue with folk getting the best kit they can comfortably afford,  that works for them. (I mean a double bass can easily cost north of £10k by itself, which is more than all my herd of basses cost together!)

 

Personally I'm really happy with my Nux bugs having tried Smoothhound, Boss WL-20 and Lekato WL-50. Those were all decent, but the Nux is the best of that bunch for me and cost <£100 second hand. 

 

But if you're getting paid a decent sum to do a gig (or even if you're not, but I guess there's maybe more at stake for you and your bandmates if you are?) and you're finding that the better more expensive Shures are the right answer for you to give you peace of mind, particularly when you've tried a bunch of alternatives as you have, I don't think it's for the rest of us to quibble? Just my tuppence worth.

Indeed my post reads as prescriptive when it's my opinion, sorry about that. 

 

You said "those were all decent" and even though I haven't tried those exact units I totally believe you. I haven't heard a difference in sound between any wireless units except my Lekato ones which do sound noticeably compressed in the lows. Honestly they're all mostly good! To me the Shure units bring a few extra features and 'quality of life' stuff which may or may not matter to you (the royal you, not @Al Krow!) and may or may not be worth the extra. I don't think they sound any better than for instance my Line 6 G30 did and even if they do you wouldn't notice on a gig. 

 

I just like things to be all plugged in and pre set up. I'd lose bugs or stand on them or something. 

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, Jack said:

Go glx, by far the best consumer unit.

 

Or go for something 10% of the price that does just as well. Or go somewhere in the middle. I haven't noticed any difference in my wirelesses (Lekato WS-50, Lekato WS-90, Line 6 G50, Smoothhound, Harley Benton AirBorne Pro 5.8GHz).

[peteb]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

On a more serious note, I personally don't have an issue with folk getting the best kit they can comfortably afford,  that works for them. (I mean a double bass can easily cost north of £10k by itself, which is more than all my herd of basses cost together!)

 

Personally I'm really happy with my Nux bugs having tried Smoothhound, Boss WL-20 and Lekato WL-50. Those were all decent, but the Nux is the best of that bunch for me and cost <£100 second hand. 

 

But if you're getting paid a decent sum to do a gig (or even if you're not, but I guess there's maybe more at stake for you and your bandmates if you are?) and you're finding that the better more expensive Shures are the right answer for you to give you peace of mind, particularly when you've tried a bunch of alternatives as you have, I don't think it's for the rest of us to quibble? Just my tuppence worth.

 

I must admit, and of course this is from my POV, if you are playing over 100 gigs in 18 months (getting on for three times as many gigs as I've done in that period), I am a bit surprised that you haven't given in to the temptation of upgrading to a Shure system. Assuming you're making reasonable money on each gig, it's only a couple of shows to pay for the difference and you've got a better system that's going to last for much longer (I paid £400 or so for my Shure nine years ago and it's still going strong with no issues). 

 

Back in the mid 80s when I first joined a band that played bigger gigs all over the place, it was on the understanding that I was going to upgrade my gear (I had a P bass that was deemed acceptable, but I was told that I needed a spare and to upgrade my amps, etc). They said that they always got the best gear they could, even if it was a bit more than they afford and that saved them a lot of money in the long run. They were, of course, quite right and within 18 months or so I had a really cool rig that sounded great. All of this helped to establish me as a credible player in the local scene (and beyond) that has served me well to this day. 

 

Having said that, I have just ordered a NUX system, partly inspired by what people have said about them on this thread. I've done a couple of deps recently where it wasn't practical to take the pedalboard with the Shure receiver, and where a decent dongle based system like the NUX would have been very useful (as well as for rehearsals). 

 

Edited Friday at 23:02 by peteb

[Al Krow]

15 hours ago, peteb said:

 

I must admit, and of course this is from my POV, if you are playing over 100 gigs in 18 months (getting on for three times as many gigs as I've done in that period), I am a bit surprised that you haven't given in to the temptation of upgrading to a Shure system. Assuming you're making reasonable money on each gig, it's only a couple of shows to pay for the difference and you've got a better system that's going to last for much longer (I paid £400 or so for my Shure nine years ago and it's still going strong with no issues). 

 

Back in the mid 80s when I first joined a band that played bigger gigs all over the place, it was on the understanding that I was going to upgrade my gear (I had a P bass that was deemed acceptable, but I was told that I needed a spare and to upgrade my amps, etc). They said that they always got the best gear they could, even if it was a bit more than they afford and that saved them a lot of money in the long run. They were, of course, quite right and within 18 months or so I had a really cool rig that sounded great. All of this helped to establish me as a credible player in the local scene (and beyond) that has served me well to this day. 

 

Having said that, I have just ordered a NUX system, partly inspired by what people have said about them on this thread. I've done a couple of deps recently where it wasn't practical to take the pedalboard with the Shure receiver, and where a decent dongle based system like the NUX would have been very useful (as well as for rehearsals). 

 

 

You make a fair point Pete in the context of the gigs I've been doing (and, yeah, they're all decently paying), and...confession time - I did briefly own a Shure GLXD16+ for a few months back in 2021 but wasn't particularly impressed: I just couldn't see what the fuss was about given the cost vs the Smooth Hound I'd had, and wasn't enamoured with the size and weight of the set up. Sorry! Horses for courses? 

(Aside: Shure do have a really good reputation - but it seems they sometimes premium price off that? An obvious case in point is their IEMs which can be both more expensive and actually not as good as some of the competition). 

 

I switched to Boss WL-20 instead for it's compact size which seemed to be just as good for my needs, and stuck with that for quite a while until I was finding that the 2.4 GHz set up was getting drop outs at certain venues, almost certainly due to the other in house PA kit there plus the fact that our own wireless IEMs were 2.4 Ghz. Obviously drop outs are not something that working musicians and their bandmates are going to want mid-set! The switch to Nux 5.8 GHz set has fixed that for me. It's also got a ridiculously good range - I wandered off towards the end of a set at an outdoor gig recently to test its range capability and must have got maybe 100m before turning back with no drop out, whereas my wireless IEMs had given up a long way before then in delivering a signal!

 

Be very interested to see how you get on with the Nux. This thread has made me do a bit more investigation into it (e.g. the battery life and the recharger pack, which I've shared above) and which has actually left me feeling even more positive about it as a very good wireless option. Fingers crossed you find the same.

 

Edited Saturday at 13:20 by Al Krow