Speakon question

[ped]

Hi guys 

 

I’m doing an order and want to add a Speakon cable. This is for connecting an extension can to a combo. It states:

 

Will this do the job?

 

https://www.thomann.co.uk/cae_lautsprecherkabel.htm

 

Cheers

ped

[spyder]

Looks ok. 👍

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

2.5mm is probably overkill, 1.5mm should do, but there's no reason why you can't use 2.5mm. 2.5mm is required for runs of 3 meters or more or with very high power.

[ped]

Cheers guys. I’m just being extra careful after a Speakon failed on me before a gig, or maybe it was the wrong type - I’m not overly familiar with the variations with two and four pin etc. 

[Chienmortbb]

The main issue with SpeakOns is that a 4way plug cannot mate with a 2 pin socket.  The cable should be OK as said  by others as long as it is copper. There are some far eastern cables that use CCAW, Copper Covered Aluminium Wire. I am sure Thomann would not sell you a pup but it is expensive if you just buy this with the £10 shipping. 

[ped]

Just now, Chienmortbb said:

The main issue with SpeakOns is that a 4way plug cannot mate with a 2 pin socket.  The cable should be OK as said  by others as long as it is copper. There are some far eastern cables that use CCAW, Copper Covered Aluminium Wire. I am sure Thomann would not sell you a pup but it is expensive if you just buy this with the £10 shipping. 

Thanks. I have some credit there and I’m getting some other bits and free shipping so thought I might as well

[Chienmortbb]

On 24/10/2024 at 19:36, ped said:

Thanks. I have some credit there and I’m getting some other bits and free shipping so thought I might as well

It won't be as good as one of mine of course 🤣

[ped]

9 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

It won't be as good as one of mine of course 🤣

I didnt think of that. I will be in touch about some other things I might need!

[Stub Mandrel]

On 24/10/2024 at 19:14, ped said:

Cheers guys. I’m just being extra careful after a Speakon failed on me before a gig, or maybe it was the wrong type - I’m not overly familiar with the variations with two and four pin etc. 

 

The four pin ones are used for things like bi-amping. Haven't come across a bass cab or amp with a four pin speakon   socket yet.

[Treb]

22 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

The four pin ones are used for things like bi-amping. Haven't come across a bass cab or amp with a four pin speakon   socket yet.

Gallien-Krueger perhaps?

[Jack]

35 minutes ago, Treb said:

Gallien-Krueger perhaps?

Indeed, the older RBii series. 

[agedhorse]

7 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

The four pin ones are used for things like bi-amping. Haven't come across a bass cab or amp with a four pin speakon   socket yet.

Most have 4 pin SpeakOn jacks, wired with only 1+ and 1-.

[Stub Mandrel]

12 hours ago, agedhorse said:

Most have 4 pin SpeakOn jacks, wired with only 1+ and 1-.

 

Is there a visible difference?

 

My PA amp has 4-pole outputs but I can't see any obvious difference (maybe this just means my bass amps/cabs are 4-pole as you suggest).

Edited October 26, 2024 by Stub Mandrel

[Stub Mandrel]

[Chienmortbb]

Most speakons are wired plus one minus one and +2-2 are unused. There are two main exceptions where the +2 & -2  are used, firstly for bi-amping and secondly how 100V line systems. They can also be used as an extra pair  to share the load in a powerful PA. 
 

In 99 % of bass applications, only +1-1 are used, 

 

(Typed without glasses so E&OE)

Edited October 30, 2024 by Chienmortbb

[agedhorse]

On 26/10/2024 at 09:43, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Is there a visible difference?

 

My PA amp has 4-pole outputs but I can't see any obvious difference (maybe this just means my bass amps/cabs are 4-pole as you suggest).

Most likely.

[Dan Dare]

 

On 26/10/2024 at 20:25, Chienmortbb said:

Most speakond are wired plus one minus one and +2-2 are unused. There are two main exceptions where the +2 & -2  are used, firstly for bi-amping and secondly how 100V line systems. They can also be used as an extra pair  to share the load in a powerful PA. 
 

In 99 % of bass applications, only +1-1 are used, 

 

This. There are no immediately obvious visible differences between 2 and 4 pole Speakons. If you look into them end on, you may be able to spot the extra contacts, but the space is quite tight. 4 poles are often used for PA purposes. My 4 channel PA amp has 4 pole outs. +1 and -1 are for the top boxes, +2 and -2 for the subs (the amp has onboard DSP/crossover).

Edited October 27, 2024 by Dan Dare

[agedhorse]

2 pole panel mount Neutrik jacks are now identified as "2 pole keyed"

[Chienmortbb]

21 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

My 4 channel PA amp has 4 pole outs. +1 and -1 are for the top boxes, +2 and -2 for the subs (the amp has onboard DSP/crossover).

That is bi-amping.

[Dan Dare]

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

That is bi-amping.

 

I know. I was agreeing with you. Still, have the last word if you want it.

[Chienmortbb]

13 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

 

I know. I was agreeing with you. Still, have the last word if you want it.

I am sorry if it came over that way. I just wanted to make things clear. Anyway I have found the Neutrik recommended wiring schemes for speakon if it helps anyone. 03 Section speakON PG EN 202202-V23.pdf

Edited October 29, 2024 by Chienmortbb

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

I am sorry if it came over that way. I just wanted to make things clear. Anyway I have found the Neutrik recommended wiring schemes for speakon if it helps anyone. 03 Section speakON PG EN 202202-V23.pdf

 

I do wish my phone would let me open pdfs...

 

 

[Chienmortbb]

Try these:

[deepbass5]

Try Hifi cables Richer sounds were good but Halfords also do 2.5 mm and various other types, they are twin cables so they don't have a thick outer sleeve and fit into the socket terminal easy. Also oxygen free if you are into that belief for Hi-fi quality.

 

 

[agedhorse]

8 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

Try these:

That's really odd, I've never seen a single PA application wired with 1- wired to 2+ at the load end EVER. In any application where 2+/2- might be present at the source (like in a stereo application w/ left and right carried on pair a and 2), this creates a dangerous load to the amp. 

 

On PA applications, the industry that I know follows the Biamp wiring, with 1+/1- being the low pair or full range if not biamped. 2+/- is only wired when used for HF in biamped applications, otherwise is entirely not used. It looks like it was a hack to allow for a series connection, but I've never seen it used in any pro speaker cabinet.

 

The reason is to avoid damaging conflicts when a biamped cabinet might be used just for low frequency applications, or where 4 wire cables are used for all applications. My sound company's inventory includes about a hundred 4 wire SpeakOn cables that get used for everything, so we don't have to worry about what's 2 wire and what's 4 wire. Every sound company I have ever worked with does the same thing. I'm talking about pro companies, not a guy, some speakers and a sketchy van.

 

Here's JBL's application of the SpeakOn standard wiring: https://jblpro.com/zh/site_elements/srx700-users-guide

Edited October 29, 2024 by agedhorse