Trace Elliot V4

[Guest]

Well i finally managed to get to Blackpool and pick up the V4. Things were not quite as rosy as i imagined, a broken fuse stuck in its holder necessitated removing the power valve board , a right bugger mainly due to hot melt glue on the header conectors That said at least they use headers unlike my iAmp 350 which just had ribbon cable soldered direct to the boards

The next job is to find my soldering/de-soldering kit which is somewhere among the many,many boxes in our new house. Should be fun

Can anyone point me in the direction of some replacement fuse holders, they are Right angled PCB mount for 20 mm fuses, looked all over the net, no luck.

My other concern is what caused one, potentially both power valve fuses to blow? Steve mentioned a dodgy power supply in his studio so i assumed he meant it was an mains input fuse. Could i be looking at knackered valves? and if so is it safe to just fire it back when the fuse holder/fuse is replaced or could i do more damage?

[Kiwi]

Valve amps are generally very robust when all the bits are working. But given your description and assuming there hasn't been some serious shorting, it might be worth getting the transformers checked out as well as a first step. Congrats on joining the V-club BTW.

[Guest]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='500588' date='May 29 2009, 08:53 AM']Valve amps are generally very robust when all the bits are working. But given your description and assuming there hasn't been some serious shorting, it might be worth getting the transformers checked out as well as a first step. Congrats on joining the V-club BTW. [/quote]

Cheers Kiwi, would it be a scope job or could I just check the voltages are within spec? One thing I found interesting was the preamp board,it reads Trace Elliot V8 so identical as it's bigger brother apart from output. The other thing was the weight, I assumed the combo was so heavy due to the amp but the
head is very managable on it's own. The cab section however is bloody heavy for a 15" it must be made of lead!

[ped]

Hi Steve,

That used to be my combo. Loved it to bits and never had a problem with it at all, sorry to hear there is something up with it now. I hope it gets sorted easily.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='steve-norris' post='500611' date='May 29 2009, 09:26 AM']Cheers Kiwi, would it be a scope job or could I just check the voltages are within spec? One thing I found interesting was the preamp board,it reads Trace Elliot V8 so identical as it's bigger brother apart from output.[/quote]
I'd imagine it would depend on your level of confidence and skill. I don't know how to test a transformer myself though unfortuantely. One tip for fuse holders might be Halfords. Its not unknown for amp manufacturers like Eden and SWR to utilise automotive parts in their products.

[quote name='steve-norris' post='500611' date='May 29 2009, 09:26 AM']The other thing was the weight, I assumed the combo was so heavy due to the amp but the
head is very managable on it's own. The cab section however is bloody heavy for a 15" it must be made of lead![/quote]
Good ol' MDF maybe?

FWIW, I was watching a very old Jamiroquai bootleg vid from a taped broadcast on US TV screened in 1997 and Zender is playing through what appears to be either a V4 or a V6 plus matching green 4x12.

[Guest]

[quote name='ped' post='500682' date='May 29 2009, 11:09 AM']Hi Steve,

That used to be my combo. Loved it to bits and never had a problem with it at all, sorry to hear there is something up with it now. I hope it gets sorted easily.[/quote]

I know, i missed out the first time there was no way i was going to let get away this time!

I had a long chat with the guys at EMS over in southend, very helpful they even offered to take some fuse holders off a V8 board for me, great guys and very knowledgeable. On their recommendation i found the parts i need at RS components, i forgot about them in their opinion the power valves are unlikely to salvageable so any KT 88's that you would recommend?

They also said that they had never seen a V4 with the V8 preamp and visual bias system.

[ped]

The visual bias system is great, isn't it?

As for KT88s I would recommend, well the original 'ruby' Chinese jobs lasted a long time so probably worth getting the same ones - a matches set of four would probably be fairly cheap. I also saw some of these [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Genalex-Gold-Lion-KT88-Matched-QUAD-Tubes-Valves-KT-88_W0QQitemZ220409719995QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MusicalInstr_Access_RL?hash=item3351716cbb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1690|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Genalex-Gold-Lion-KT...93%3A1|294%3A50[/url] a while ago which were far cheaper than this ebay listing so you might be able to hunt some down. In general though, with the visual bias, I would think any matched set of four would be worth a try, even some cheapo jobbies

[pete.young]

[quote name='steve-norris' post='502489' date='May 31 2009, 07:16 PM']I had a long chat with the guys at EMS over in southend, very helpful they even offered to take some fuse holders off a V8 board for me, great guys and very knowledgeable. On their recommendation i found the parts i need at RS components, i forgot about them in their opinion the power valves are unlikely to salvageable so any KT 88's that you would recommend?[/quote]

I'm very happy with the JJ Tesla KT77s I have in my Burmans, so if they make a KT88 it might be worth considering.

[ped]

IIRC Kiwi had/has those Gold Lion ones in my ebay link in his Burman or his Trace, can't remember exactly...

[Kiwi]

I went for JJ's in the end because the Genalex were too pricey. I have the KT77's in all the Burmans. Still have the Ruby's in the V8 though.

[ped]

Pretty sure I saw a set of 4 Genalex valves for £90 at one point because I nearly bought them as spares.

[Guest]

[quote name='ped' post='502621' date='May 31 2009, 10:02 PM']Pretty sure I saw a set of 4 Genalex valves for £90 at one point because I nearly bought them as spares.[/quote]


Not managed to find them for less than the ebay link you posted, are the JJ's in the same ballpark?

[Guest]

Some pic's for those of you who like these things...The empty holes at FS1 & FS2 are where the fuse holders should be. While the construction is not in the 'Hand wired point to point' league but it's a fair bit tidier than some other high end amps, in particular my EA iAmp 350 which had ribbon cables solders straight to the board.

Edited June 2, 2009 by steve-norris

[SS73]

[quote name='steve-norris' post='504319' date='Jun 2 2009, 10:56 PM']Some pic's for those of you who like these things...The empty holes at FS1 & FS2 are where the fuse holders should be. While the construction is not in the 'Hand wired point to point' league but it's a fair bit tidier than some other high end amps, in particular my EA iAmp 350 which had ribbon cables solders straight to the board.[/quote]

Steve, great pic's but I can't believe you were drinking Stella and working on your amp, I allways though Stella was only for fighting.

On the valve front go to Watford valves web site and hit the reports section, in there is a test on all the main KT88's, the Tesla JJ rates highly.
I have GEC KT88's in the V8 at the moment, these are stupid prices now and NOS unheard of, but they just sound awesome, I also have a set of GE 6550's these have loads of grunt and make the amp growl more, but with the 4001 it adds this anyway so I'm on the GEC's at moment which are so smooooooth.
The Ruby's I took out were not even close to the above, to refit them would be a very bitter pill to swallow.

[Guest]

[quote name='SS73' post='505352' date='Jun 4 2009, 11:14 AM']Steve, great pic's but I can't believe you were drinking Stella and working on your amp, I allways though Stella was only for fighting.

On the valve front go to Watford valves web site and hit the reports section, in there is a test on all the main KT88's, the Tesla JJ rates highly.
I have GEC KT88's in the V8 at the moment, these are stupid prices now and NOS unheard of, but they just sound awesome, I also have a set of GE 6550's these have loads of grunt and make the amp growl more, but with the 4001 it adds this anyway so I'm on the GEC's at moment which are so smooooooth.
The Ruby's I took out were not even close to the above, to refit them would be a very bitter pill to swallow.[/quote]


Quite right about the stella our local shop has very few beers in the fridge, when working on electrical equipment I
recommend Amstel, cold.

Would you spend the extra on the golden lion re-issues over the jj's ?

[SS73]

[quote name='steve-norris' post='505460' date='Jun 4 2009, 01:40 PM']Quite right about the stella our local shop has very few beers in the fridge, when working on electrical equipment I
recommend Amstel, cold.

Would you spend the extra on the golden lion re-issues over the jj's ?[/quote]

I would say yes go for it, thinking I would need 8 though , I just did a google search on the reissue gold lion and found some hifi guy's forum chat, ( jeeze I thought I was an anorak, anyway) it makes interesting reading, I would also give the guy at watford valves a ring, he's into his amps both hifi and guitar, so he's not just a salesman. If they are as good or near as the original GEC KT88 then they have to be a good buy, although but my brother has just put some JJ 6L6 in his Peavy 5150 and wound up they sound awesome and real real smooth.

I do find a good scotch mixed with solder fumes really hits the spot...

[Guest]

Well i have reached the limit of what i can do with the amp, there is voltage present on the output board but my meter stops at 200 VDC so it looks like a trip to EMS in Southend or a closer repairer as i don,t want to risk another set of valves without a check over, also although it has the visual bias system i think i might entrust it to a professional to be on the safe side.

Any Amp people recommended near to Banbury, Oxfordshire? Also does any one have the service manual for the V4, i have the v8 one with all the test point voltages but can't seem to find one for the V4.

As for valves, Svetlana / 'winged C' KT 88's have been recommended by Derek at watford valves but are very expensive. Is it worth the extra expense over valves like JJ's?

[ped]

V4 manual here mate

Definitely call Watford Valves as SS73 says. They often have stock sitting around. I managed to get a matched set of valves for a 400+ for about £100 from them.

Cheers
ped

[attachment=26733:Trace_El...eBay__...pdf]

[Guest]

[quote name='ped' post='508534' date='Jun 8 2009, 08:41 PM']V4 manual here mate

Definitely call Watford Valves as SS73 says. They often have stock sitting around. I managed to get a matched set of valves for a 400+ for about £100 from them.

Cheers
ped

[attachment=26733:Trace_El...eBay__...pdf][/quote]


Thanks for the link Ped, at least i know it's worth £2500+ when its working again

[SS73]

As for valves, Svetlana / 'winged C' KT 88's have been recommended by Derek at watford valves but are very expensive. Is it worth the extra expense over valves like JJ's?
[/quote]

I have heard the ''winged C'' is a very nice valve and really sings when wound up, which I think is the thing with these higher quality valves, they just get better as the volume rises almost like they need or like to be pushed.
What did Derek say about the Golden lions? were they biased towards HiFi use?, and how much were the "Winged C's"