Getting better on bass... where now?

[Boodang]

23 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

I would have thought that the best approach was both. Learning by ear to survive real life and also notation / theory to learn things that you cannot directly listen to, and to communicate with others

Yep, I learn songs from Spotify but I also take lessons and I do like to buy books to delve into. The Gwizdala books are my fav at the moment and he does put tab at the back for everything but the notation is easier (at least I find it easier as it has the note duration which is quite a key part of playing!). 

[diskwave]

5 hours ago, Jo.gwillim said:

Put itunes/radio/spotify on random and try to keep up

Agree, and its all fun. I use YT cause for me personally it seems easy to see whats coming but any platform works. I prefer specific genres but only because I'll probably have some handle on whats coming but yes its so satisfying not to have to mess about with charts and just play... Playing by ear is fun indeed. 

[msb]

Try to Incorporate interpretive dance into your practice routine. You never know when it might come in handy.

[Stub Mandrel]

13 hours ago, diskwave said:

We're all here trying to help this fellow and you plonk a sad emoji on my comment?  Dont mean to be rude and pass judgement but reading the above, I think I might just b a smidge more experienced than yourself.

 

I think you may be (1) taking me too seriously and (2) have a very narrow view of what opportunities there are for developing bass playing skills. Sight reading has only one purpose- to be able to play something you have no prior knowledge as was intended. This is a great skill and one I regret I will never have as I appear to have a type of dysmusia that prevents me interpreting pitch visually.

 

But for 90% of bass players this is not a significant barrier to their musical development, and the effort and application required can get in the way of developing other skills. For most performance it doesn't matter if you learn pieces by ear, tab or notation. If you want to drop into a jam and join in, being able to improvise a bassline in an appropriate style is probably the most valuable skill. Theory helps a lot with that.

 

The sad emoji was how I felt when once again someone suggested to a beginner that they tackle something that has killed the joy in music for do many people. I can't count the number of times I beat my head against notation when trying to learn various instruments. Thank goodness I discovered you could take the theory from tutorials without having to read the notation (largely by visualising a piano keyboard which makes sense to me in a way a stave never will).

 

Maybe I am biased as I am used to learning things by determination and effort, and musical notation is the one thing I have battered against as much as anything else without success.

 

No doubt you have more expertise than me, most people on Basschat probably do. But I do have fifty or more year's experience of learning music, including lessons of all sorts.

[Stub Mandrel]

11 hours ago, diskwave said:

 

Get back to me if you ever want to play in a groovy modern Jazz unit, or big band, or theatre pit, or.....I can go on but probably dont need to.

But sure, you can learn the easy pop stuff by ear no probs .... been doing it for ever,  but a lot of musicians whilst busking the tricky styles etc will have learnt the stuff off the page.....It's quicker and just plain more sensible and fun too and also improives ur chops because of the accuracy needed. 

 

As I said to that other bloke.. Just trying to pass on some age old wisdom even if its deemed "sad" for doing so.

 

Oh, I hadn't previously noticed the jazz snobbery.

 

Anyone who thinks THEIR music requires greater 'accuracy' than someone else's is deluded.

 

Now I'll crawl back into my cave and get back to learning to play Sound Chaser properly. Just starting to crack it after 40 years trying.

[Stub Mandrel]

8 hours ago, rushbo said:

This is great advice for somebody who might not have the confidence to join a band or play with other musicians yet.

 

I remember spending between 30 mins and a hour a day, playing along to Radio 1 in the early 80's. It didn't matter what the song was, or even if you liked it. It was about reacting to music and finding the key and the structure purely by ear. A musician with " a good ear" is a valuable commodity indeed. 

 

THIS is excellent, real world advice.

[Dan Earp]

For me, playing with others is still the best way to improve as you don’t always understand what isn’t working, timing etc. by playing along to recordings so ideally join a band, or at least jam with others. 
Hopefully the musicians who are supportive in your efforts to improve.
As to how to learn, try to find what works for you. I know of brilliant musicians who can sight read anything, but can’t play happy birthday without music, and equally talented musicians who can’t read a note. There is no right way. Some people need a teacher, others not. everyone is different and as a result, what works brilliantly for them may be hopelessly flawed for you. 
finally, a personal beef, unless you are playing in a covers band, why do we beat ourselves up trying to play the exact notes on a recording? So it’s either right, or wrong and so making the player a failure if it’s not as good as the original. Do your own version. Far better to play simpler in the groove than harder out of it. Success to me is getting people tapping their feet or hands along, even better spontaneously dancing. Mostly happens when locked in with the drummer, much easier with a simple line than a harder one. 
Rant over….

[diskwave]

10 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Anyone who thinks THEIR music requires greater 'accuracy' than someone else's is deluded

Its not "my music" its just music. What I meant to say was. If you are able to study charts/jazz etc it will make you a better musican, period. It does seem just a little bit silly that on this particular site for musicians, Im having to defend a process that thousands of serious musicians use. Pity really.

[OliverBlackman]

2 hours ago, Dan Earp said:

finally, a personal beef, unless you are playing in a covers band, why do we beat ourselves up trying to play the exact notes on a recording? So it’s either right, or wrong and so making the player a failure if it’s not as good as the original. Do your own version. Far better to play simpler in the groove than harder out of it. Success to me is getting people tapping their feet or hands along, even better spontaneously dancing. Mostly happens when locked in with the drummer, much easier with a simple line than a harder one. 
Rant over….

Because you don’t learn anything new that way, just carry on rehashing your existing knowledge. Tbf I used to say that simpler lines worked better, until I learned that my timing was off and that was why. So I worked hard on it and now I have a different view.

[msb]

I’ve got close to twenty new tunes to learn. I’m expected to know them exactly as they’re played , and then be able to transpose to a variety of keys at rehearsal. I’ll make up charts as I learn them , and through repetition commit them to memory. I can use charts at rehearsal , but not on the gig. 

I’m good at writing charts , but don’t write or read the dots. If I did , and could bring written music on the gig it would save me the considerable time needed to memorize everything. 

[Stub Mandrel]

5 hours ago, diskwave said:

Its not "my music" its just music. What I meant to say was. If you are able to study charts/jazz etc it will make you a better musican, period. It does seem just a little bit silly that on this particular site for musicians, Im having to defend a process that thousands of serious musicians use. Pity really.

 

I can't argue studying charts wouldn't make you a better musician as I have learned a lot by studying tab and understanding some of the underlying theory. I'm sure that would be easier if I could read notation but I can't.

 

I do think it's short sighted to claim the study of jazz has some special merit, however. Much jazz is uninspired and insipid and the focus on technical skil and compositional complexity* over musicality can become a waste of talent where jazz musicians play for other jazz musicians. That said, I  can  enjoy and appreciate Weather Report and Dizzy Gillespie, for example, but save me from bands with word 'jazz' in their name who play from 'the book' and seem to repeat endless variations on the same set of individual solos for each song.

 

 

*I recently saw a gig promoted with the statement that the musicians played "sophisticated chords" - 'nuff said...

[OliverBlackman]

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I do think it's short sighted to claim the study of jazz has some special merit, however. Much jazz is uninspired and insipid and the focus on technical skil and compositional complexity* over musicality can become a waste of talent where jazz musicians play for other jazz musicians.

Crikey. The irony in calling Diskwave’s claim short sighted.

[diskwave]

I think I really do need to redress the balance here a bit. Yes I read as do many others, but yes I also play by ear .. a lot and Im sorry my input has caused so much offence to so many.  To the OP. There are many ways to learn bass guitar, and what ever suits you will be the best way for you...

[KingPrawn]

On 07/11/2024 at 17:50, Bass Novice said:

Hi folks! I have been learning bass for a couple of years now. I really enjoy it and practice most days. I can play some songs from memory and can play songs from reading the tabs on Youtube as I play. I can do basic techniques such as slides, hammer ons and pull offs, but not slapping. I have recently started doing some very basic jamming and playing songs with a mate guitarist and drum track. My question is how do I get better now, and what should I be doing? Playing with others is something to pursue and I will be doing this to improve. I am also learning harder songs such as sir duke, so that will improve my ability to play more complex and faster pieces. What else should I be looking to do to get better?

 

In contrast I am also learning the guitar as a secondary instrument. With guitar it seems like there is so much more to learn such as chords, how they are formed and modified to make more chords, more techniques and such etc.

 

Anyone else get to this stage?

Don't take too much notice of the " my method is better than yours" stuff on here. Don't let your Ego take over the enjoyment of music and the bass.Join a band or play with others. It really helps to understand musicality and where you fit sonically in a song. If you want to be a Pro then do pro stuff etc. if you want to be a weekend warrior then do that stuff. Enjoy yourself its later than you think

Edited November 12 by KingPrawn

[Lozz196]

Yep, everyone will offer up their preference, just try a few out and establish which is yours. But def, playing with other musicians gives invaluable experience.

[Burns-bass]

It was my recommendation that leading music helped me.

 

I also found the whole process fun and rewarding. It was great to be able to learn what’s effectively a new language all on my own.

 

It unlocked lots of interesting things. I could play a Bach cello suite, for example.

 

In the end, there’s no real need for me to learn to read music but I did it because I wanted to and enjoyed it. In the end, if it’s not fun, then why bother?

Very few of us do this for a living, but we do it because we love it. I like process but others don’t. All good.

 

 

 

[peteb]

18 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

It was my recommendation that leading music helped me.

 

I also found the whole process fun and rewarding. It was great to be able to learn what’s effectively a new language all on my own.

 

It unlocked lots of interesting things. I could play a Bach cello suite, for example.

 

In the end, there’s no real need for me to learn to read music but I did it because I wanted to and enjoyed it. In the end, if it’s not fun, then why bother?

Very few of us do this for a living, but we do it because we love it. I like process but others don’t. All good.

 

 

 

 

I have very limited reading skills, but a few years ago I did learn a Bach cello piece by reading the dots, just to see if I could do it. I didn't listen to it until after I had worked out the part from the notation and when I did, I had it down pretty well. However, it did take me several days to learn quite a simple piece. 

 

I always thought that developing your ear and learning to play that way was far more important. Reading seemed to be something you needed to be able to do to get gigs on cruise ships or play in a pit, and since I wasn't interested in doing that I didn't bother! I once had a lesson with the excellent Neil Fairclough (bass player with post John Deacon Queen projects) and he told me that he learnt to play by ear and that he didn't learn to read until after he had been trying to make a living as a pro for a while, as he thought that it would help him to pick up extra work. 

 

[msb]

I was just fortunate to consistently play with people that were much better than I was. 

[peteb]

On 11/11/2024 at 14:23, diskwave said:

And there you have it more evidence that 'woke' is destroying what used be just normal discourse

 

You do realise that statement makes you sound a bit moronic and leads people to disregard everything that you say? 

 

[peteb]

2 minutes ago, msb said:

I was just fortunate to consistently play with people that were much better than I was. 

 

Always the best way of getting good...! 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

4 hours ago, OliverBlackman said:

Crikey. The irony in calling Diskwave’s claim short sighted.

 

A better anology for the suggestion that 'jazz is the way'? Tunnel vision?

[peteb]

8 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I do think it's short sighted to claim the study of jazz has some special merit, however. Much jazz is uninspired and insipid and the focus on technical skil and compositional complexity* over musicality can become a waste of talent where jazz musicians play for other jazz musicians. 

 

 

I'm not sure that's really the point. I think that what he's trying to get at is that by learning to play more complicated music you will develop more knowledge of harmony and possibly more faculty on the instrument that might make it easier to play simpler forms of music. 

 

On the flip side, many guys who come through the jazz route struggle to sound convincing when playing genres like rock. And after all, who the hell cares what Cliff Williams jazz chops are like! 

 

Edited November 13 by peteb

[msb]

2 hours ago, peteb said:

 

Always the best way of getting good...! 

 

Unfortunately , at this stage I seem to have become somewhat of a mentor for quite a few younger players …

[OliverBlackman]

9 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

A better anology for the suggestion that 'jazz is the way'? Tunnel vision?

 

8 hours ago, peteb said:

 

I'm not sure that's really the point. I think that what he's trying to get at is that by learning to play more complicated music you will develop more knowledge of harmony and possibly more faculty on the instrument that might make it easier to play simpler forms of music. 

 

On the flip side, many guys who come through the jazz route struggle to sound convincing when playing genres like rock. And after all, who the hell cares what Cliff Williams jazz chops are like! 

 

I think it’s more what’s commonly known as jazz theory that is beneficial to musicians. It clearly deconstructs and defines scales/ arpeggios, chromaticisms, chord structures, progressions ect. This builds the knowledge of the player and therefore gives more solutions to different scenarios independent of the genre played. 

 

You may be surprised how many players have in part studied this even if they’re not known for playing jazz. It’s particularly prevalent in music colleges, but benefits all levels of ability.

[diskwave]

10 hours ago, peteb said:

You do realise that statement makes you sound a bit moronic and leads people to disregard everything that you say? 

You win. Congrats.