Getting better on bass... where now?

[BigRedX]

I think we've frightened the OP off...

[peteb]

20 minutes ago, OliverBlackman said:

 

I think it’s more what’s commonly known as jazz theory that is beneficial to musicians. It clearly deconstructs and defines scales/ arpeggios, chromaticisms, chord structures, progressions ect. This builds the knowledge of the player and therefore gives more solutions to different scenarios independent of the genre played. 

 

You may be surprised how many players have in part studied this even if they’re not known for playing jazz. It’s particularly prevalent in music colleges, but benefits all levels of ability.

 

Actually, I wouldn't be that surprised at all.

 

A couple of friends of mine used to be promoters, primarily on the blues circuit, and used to run a major blues festival in the north. I used to help out as part of the stagecrew on the main stages (apart from a couple of occasions when I played at the festival myself). A lot of the acts had British backing bands made up of pro players and I noticed that there seemed to be two types of musicians in these bands (remember that this was nearly ten years ago). The 'old school' guys were forty plus and had come up playing the clubs and the rock and/or blues circuits. They came from a variety of backgrounds, with some having gone to music college but most hadn't. The 'new school' were in their thirties or younger and virtually all of them had been to music college. They all seemed to come from pretty affluent backgrounds with supportive families. 

 

I mentioned Cliff Williams before. When AC/DC started to hit the real big time, they brought in Cliff who is as 'old school' as it gets and went on to become one of the biggest rock bands ever. Now that Cliff has retired (again), they have Chris Chaney covering his spot on the latest tour, who went to Berklee. 

 

 

[SumOne]

I know we're sort of shouting 'advise' and arguing together while the OP has walked off (I can picture it in a cartoon where someone asks a question, and everyone crowds around shouting over each other, not noticing the original person quietly walked away long ago).......but that's not gonna stop me joining in!

 

Some music Theory is well worthwhile and goes a long way, but I'd say that reading music is generally a 'nice to have' for Bass, especially if you are doing what the majority of Bass players do - play rock/pop etc cover versions or originals. You won't see many of those Bass players standing there live reading sheet music. It's not the case for all instruments, there's good reason that Bass reading has developed Tabs, and Piano has not. I mean, for the bands I've been in it is the expectation that you learn the songs/basslines to play live without reading any notation, nowadays you can do that by listening to the recorded music, online tutorials, tabs, chord charts etc. to help you memorise, whereas in the past, written notation was the only way to get it communicated (or hearing others play live and memorising). So sure, it would be great to sight read music, but I wouldn't say it is a priority for most Bass players. Piano players (who probably play at least 10x the notes of Bass, and more variations, so need notation as it's too hard to memorise), or Bass players playing in Theatre shows just thrown into it with no time to memorise it's a different matter though and is pretty much essential.

 

Anyway, my advice (shouting at cloud!) would be to nail the timing (and locking in with a drummer that might not keep perfect timing!).  The temptation is to watch flashy Bass players on YouTube doing solo stuff with 1000 notes a minute, it looks good in that context, but in a band context it's over the top and you rarely see players doing it, Bass is a supporting instrument - part of the rhythm section at the back, so you've gotta have the rhythm! If 1000 notes per minute solo spotlight stuff was my thing then I'd play a guitar. Nowadays, I always practice to something to keep timing - metronome, drum track, band, recording etc. And yeah, wherever possible, play with others (fnarr fnarr).

[la bam]

The thing here, as is always the case, is what's "better" in the context of I want to get "better"? 

 

After a while you realise theres no one route, or one definition, but just think of what you want to achieve - playing alone in the house, playing in a band, playing complex stuff, entertaining others, being an unseen player in a show, playing simple stuff to millions? 

 

Who's 'better' - the guy who plays complex showtunes and jazz amazingly well on his own, but can't play with a drummer, or the guy who can play simple lines well and lock in with a band and make them sound great? 

 

Who's 'better' - the guy who releases an album and sells 100 copies, or the guy who sells 1 million? 

 

Who's 'better' - the guy who can play anything written down for him, or the guy who wrote them? 

 

There really isn't any scale for 'better' in this case. It's a word used on forums which always causes conflict. 

 

I can only write from my point of view, but saying 'yes' to opportunities to join bands (when in fact I was terrified and wanted to say no as self confidence was low) and ending up playing all different genres made me improve at such a rapid rate compared to staying at home. 

 

And to hopefully give the op some confidence, if you can play sir duke etc you're good enough bass wise to be in bands - get out there, join a few bands and enjoy! 

 

 

[Dan Earp]

On 07/11/2024 at 17:50, Bass Novice said:

Hi folks! I have been learning bass for a couple of years now. I really enjoy it and practice most days. I can play some songs from memory and can play songs from reading the tabs on Youtube as I play. I can do basic techniques such as slides, hammer ons and pull offs, but not slapping. I have recently started doing some very basic jamming and playing songs with a mate guitarist and drum track. My question is how do I get better now, and what should I be doing? Playing with others is something to pursue and I will be doing this to improve. I am also learning harder songs such as sir duke, so that will improve my ability to play more complex and faster pieces. What else should I be looking to do to get better?

 

In contrast I am also learning the guitar as a secondary instrument. With guitar it seems like there is so much more to learn such as chords, how they are formed and modified to make more chords, more techniques and such etc.

 

Anyone else get to this stage?

 

On 12/11/2024 at 13:02, OliverBlackman said:

Because you don’t learn anything new that way, just carry on rehashing your existing knowledge. Tbf I used to say that simpler lines worked better, until I learned that my timing was off and that was why. So I worked hard on it and now I have a different view.

Why don’t you?  I feel that’s an assumption…. I was also told about timing early on, so it’s more important for me to play the best line I can in the groove. But that means, as I learn songs and play better, over time what I play changes as well…..

[OliverBlackman]

2 hours ago, Dan Earp said:

 

Why don’t you?  I feel that’s an assumption….

Just basic learning theory. You learn from something existing, so by not learning what others have done you’re relying on something you’ve subconsciously heard, something you know already, theory or a mixture of all 3.

The more you learn from others the more you absorb into your own arsenal of ideas.

[tauzero]

14 hours ago, BigRedX said:

I think we've frightened the OP off...

 

No, he's now using the username "Bass Professional".

[Burns-bass]

On 12/11/2024 at 22:49, peteb said:

 

I have very limited reading skills, but a few years ago I did learn a Bach cello piece by reading the dots, just to see if I could do it. I didn't listen to it until after I had worked out the part from the notation and when I did, I had it down pretty well. However, it did take me several days to learn quite a simple piece. 

 

I always thought that developing your ear and learning to play that way was far more important. Reading seemed to be something you needed to be able to do to get gigs on cruise ships or play in a pit, and since I wasn't interested in doing that I didn't bother! I once had a lesson with the excellent Neil Fairclough (bass player with post John Deacon Queen projects) and he told me that he learnt to play by ear and that he didn't learn to read until after he had been trying to make a living as a pro for a while, as he thought that it would help him to pick up extra work. 

 

That’s exactly what I did (learn to read the dots to gain more jobs not playing with Queen!).

 

 

[peteb]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

That’s exactly what I did (learn to read the dots to gain more jobs not playing with Queen!).

 

 

 

Just to be clear, I don't think that he needed to read to get the job with Queen. That was for picking up more mundane, everyday gigs that help a pro to keep earning. 

 

[Boodang]

On 13/11/2024 at 15:14, BigRedX said:

I think we've frightened the OP off...

I have to say that I feel sorry for any newbie that comes on here and asks for general advice… I doubt they’ll be able to see the trees for the wood by the end of it, not withstanding the obligatory sh!t fest of disagreements that bass chat seems to excel at!  

[Burns-bass]

37 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

Just to be clear, I don't think that he needed to read to get the job with Queen. That was for picking up more mundane, everyday gigs that help a pro to keep earning. 

 

 

I get that I was just joking. To be honest, I'm not a Queen fan.

[peteb]

2 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

 

I get that I was just joking. To be honest, I'm not a Queen fan.

 

I doubt that you would turn down the Queen gig though! 🙂 

[SimonK]

On 13/11/2024 at 10:30, la bam said:

The thing here, as is always the case, is what's "better" in the context of I want to get "better"? 

 

After a while you realise theres no one route, or one definition, but just think of what you want to achieve - playing alone in the house, playing in a band, playing complex stuff, entertaining others, being an unseen player in a show, playing simple stuff to millions? 

 

Who's 'better' - the guy who plays complex showtunes and jazz amazingly well on his own, but can't play with a drummer, or the guy who can play simple lines well and lock in with a band and make them sound great? 

 

Who's 'better' - the guy who releases an album and sells 100 copies, or the guy who sells 1 million? 

 

Who's 'better' - the guy who can play anything written down for him, or the guy who wrote them? 

 

There really isn't any scale for 'better' in this case. It's a word used on forums which always causes conflict. 

 

I can only write from my point of view, but saying 'yes' to opportunities to join bands (when in fact I was terrified and wanted to say no as self confidence was low) and ending up playing all different genres made me improve at such a rapid rate compared to staying at home. 

 

And to hopefully give the op some confidence, if you can play sir duke etc you're good enough bass wise to be in bands - get out there, join a few bands and enjoy! 

 

 

 

I think the answer to "Who's better" is almost always Charles Berthoud!

 

As for the rest of us it's more about what individuals enjoy doing: "better" in my books is simply one and the same with "more fun"!

Edited November 14 by SimonK

[ghostwheel]

3 hours ago, SimonK said:

 

I think the answer to "Who's better" is almost always Charles Berthoud!

 

As for the rest of us it's more about what individuals enjoy doing: "better" in my books is simply one and the the same with "more fun"!

Is he better than Bernard Edwards then? 

[SimonK]

5 minutes ago, ghostwheel said:

Is he better than Bernard Edwards then? 

 

Music isn't a competition, but certainly Charles Berthoud has taken Bass to new places and made some very enjoyable youtube videos in the process (and his upcoming tour looks awesome). But my point was that for me "better" is having more fun.

[OliverBlackman]

1 hour ago, SimonK said:

 

Music isn't a competition, but certainly Charles Berthoud has taken Bass to new places and made some very enjoyable youtube videos in the process (and his upcoming tour looks awesome). But my point was that for me "better" is having more fun.

Oh I thought you were being sarcastic 😂

[SumOne]

On 14/11/2024 at 11:21, Boodang said:

I have to say that I feel sorry for any newbie that comes on here and asks for general advice… I doubt they’ll be able to see the trees for the wood by the end of it, not withstanding the obligatory sh!t fest of disagreements that bass chat seems to excel at!  

 

F#ck you! 😁

 

For the sake of disagreeing: Asking 'how do I get better' on an online fourum is probably quite a 'shoot the breeze' sort of question. Nobody would really expect there to be a short universally agreed silver bullet answer (apart from perhaps 'practice more!').

 

Debate is good and interesting, it needs a certain level of disagreement. 

 

[Dad3353]

6 minutes ago, SumOne said:

...Debate is good and interesting, it needs a certain level of disagreement. 

 

Oh no it doesn't. 

 

...

 

 

[Boodang]

4 hours ago, SumOne said:

 

F#ck you! 😁

 

For the sake of disagreeing: Asking 'how do I get better' on an online fourum is probably quite a 'shoot the breeze' sort of question. Nobody would really expect there to be a short universally agreed silver bullet answer (apart from perhaps 'practice more!').

 

Debate is good and interesting, it needs a certain level of disagreement. 

 

This is exactly why I feel sorry for the OP! 

[SumOne]

3 hours ago, Boodang said:

This is exactly why I feel sorry for the OP! 

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. They don't care enough to respond or comment to any responses, and responses won't change what they do. That's fine, we're all just spending a bit of time to shoot the breeze and shout at clouds.

[tauzero]

31 minutes ago, SumOne said:

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. They don't care enough to respond or comment to any responses, and responses won't change what they do. That's fine, we're all just spending a bit of time to shoot the breeze and shout at clouds.

 

Probably been too busy gigging.

[SimonK]

...I can't remember which youtuber it was but I was watching a bass video the other day about EQ'ing bass, and in making the point about nonsense spouted on the internet they showed some posts from basschat...

[SumOne]

6 hours ago, SimonK said:

...I can't remember which youtuber it was but I was watching a bass video the other day about EQ'ing bass, and in making the point about nonsense spouted on the internet they showed some posts from basschat...

... but then again, being a 'YouTuber' doesn't necessarily qualify them any more than anyone on here. They might well have been spouting nonsense on the internet themselves, potentially they just like the sound of their own opinions presented as fact even more than forum posters! 

[Boodang]

17 hours ago, SumOne said:

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. They don't care enough to respond or comment to any responses, and responses won't change what they do. That's fine, we're all just spending a bit of time to shoot the breeze and shout at clouds.

True enough! The thing I find amusing though, if you took this thread and went to publish it as a book of advice to bass players, an editor would have a brain spasm trying to make sense of it! 

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, Boodang said:

True enough! The thing I find amusing though, if you took this thread and went to publish it as a book of advice to bass players, an editor would have a brain spasm trying to make sense of it! 

 

It might come in useful for a psychology text book though.