tauzero Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 Assuming I have the nomenclature right... Went up to Nantwich today to pick up a Ray5 bought on Ebay from a seller in Liverpool who kindly came halfway down to meet me. It seems that people can't give them away nowadays. Good condition and the attractive natural walnut, which is what I wanted. Action was high enough to get a bus under - rather too much relief and the saddles were raised so far that the grub screws were completely inside on the B string. Back home, a few turns of the truss rod (literally, I think it took two and a half turns) got relief down to near flat, as I like it, and I got the saddles lowered nicely too - the G string saddle is flat on the bridge and just right, so at least I don't have to shim the neck. Although the strings are 40-60-75-95-125 they feel stiffer than my normal 40-125 Elites so I'll change them at some point in the not too far distant future. The bass and treble pots are OK but the volume pot is rather iffy, replacement on order. The pots still have the protective sheet stuck under them. The pickguard has been off at some point, a couple of the screws are slightly mangled but I have replacements in black which might look better. First impressions are that the neck is a little on the thick side - not terribly so, though, and I am comparing it to Seis and Antoniotsais. It is comfortable to play. Fretwork seems OK. It seems to be quite high output. Needs Schaller-compatible straplock buttons, which is the next item on the agenda. Machine heads feel a little gritty, for want of a better word - I think a bit of dismantling and cleaning is in order. They're perfectly usable but could be improved. This is a candidate for defretting - decision to be taken fairly soon. Photo from the Ebay advert. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 Nice. I popped a Retrovibe Stinger preamp in mine, which transformed the sound. Mine's quite light for a 5er too You can buy just the Schaller strap buttons now. The old locks fit new buttons ok, but new locks are a bit tight on old buttons 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 Better check if the pickup is wired in series or parallel. Sounds way better in parallel as it's how the preamp (if there's one as some were passive) is designed to work with the pickup. Remember that the preamp is designed like a real resonant filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 8 Author Share Posted November 8 3 hours ago, Norris said: Nice. I popped a Retrovibe Stinger preamp in mine, which transformed the sound. Mine's quite light for a 5er too You can buy just the Schaller strap buttons now. The old locks fit new buttons ok, but new locks are a bit tight on old buttons I know about the Schallers (I've posted about it two or three times) - it's the other way round, the old locks often won't fit onto new buttons. And the buttons cost a fortune for genuine Schaller, but compatibles are available - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135120131903 which work with old and new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 8 Author Share Posted November 8 25 minutes ago, Hellzero said: Better check if the pickup is wired in series or parallel. Sounds way better in parallel as it's how the preamp (if there's one as some were passive) is designed to work with the pickup. Remember that the preamp is designed like a real resonant filter. I haven't opened it up yet (waiting for the volume pot) - wiring diagrams show a single hot wire rather than a four-wire pickup, so it could be permanently parallel wired. The preamp has treble and bass controls, both centre detented - isn't that likely to be a normal two-band boost/cut preamp rather than filter based? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 Indeed, but as the pickup is wired directly into the preamp, its resistance, inductance and capacitance are turning the whole preamp and pickup couple into a resonant filter, so a pickup wired in series as well as any resistor put in between (pot or blend in case of a second pickup) will interfere mainly with the frequency resonance of the highs by changing their reference point, but also with the bass frequency too. That's why a lot of Stingray clones don't sound right at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 2 hours ago, tauzero said: I know about the Schallers (I've posted about it two or three times) - it's the other way round Sure? Because it's exactly what I did to mine. New genuine Schaller buttons with the hex drive (Ebay is cheapest I found) and my existing strap fitted just fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 8 Author Share Posted November 8 1 hour ago, Norris said: Sure? Because it's exactly what I did to mine. New genuine Schaller buttons with the hex drive (Ebay is cheapest I found) and my existing strap fitted just fine Absolutely certain. I emailed them to ask about it. There are some manufacturing tolerances so sometimes old locks will fit on new buttons but it's not reliable. Schaller themselves say Quote Compatibility Schaller Security Locks and S-Locks S-Locks are compatible with all existing Schaller Security Locks like this: strap button old SecLock/S-Lock Classic + lock new S-Lock (without silent feature!) strap button new S-Lock + lock old SecLock (only limited, we do not recommend it!) The first combination is without the silent feature because the old button is slightly smaller than the new one (new 12.1mm diameter, old 12mm diameter, top of button to lock slot 4.1mm new, 4mm old) so it'll be a little more rattly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 9 Author Share Posted November 9 Ordered a Stingray preamp PCB (same circuit as the Retrovibe Stinger) from OSHPark. I shall reflect on the pickup once I've got the pot replaced as the original is a 2-wire pickup and it would be nice to have a 4-wire with switchable series/parallel. I think I have some pickup height adjusting to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 This preamp is an exact copy of the 1978 model: https://www.musikding.de/Classic-Bass-Preamp-Preamp-kit And yes, the price includes everything including the potentiometers, except the battery clip... If you have an LM4250CN chipset and some tantalum capacitors, you can get an exact clone. Here's the one I, of course assembled, and put in my Pueblo Pink Sterling by Music Man Ray4: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 9 Author Share Posted November 9 Unfortunately not currently available. Continuing with plan A. I'll see about using tants instead of electrolytics, although I'm not sure that it would actually make a difference. There's LM4250CNs on Ebay but I'm not sure that they really are, there's some suggested replacements available from Farnell: LT1097CN8 LT1012DN8 LT1351CN8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 The preamp from Musik Ding is available by batches, worth checking the site from time to time. The TL061 is certainly the closest replacement for the LM4250CN in terms of sound. There's a difference in tone with the tantalum capacitors, it's tighter with less emphasis in the bass region compared to the usual electrolytic ones. I've compared loads of different iterations of this preamp from the epoxy to the last version. On a fretless, I tend to prefer the tantalum version, but with flatwounds on a fretted bass the electrolytic version is just fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted November 9 Share Posted November 9 There you can find real LM 4250CN: https://elw-elektronik.com/epages/d0dee231-ab0f-4fe3-b9b2-78e23c1b0b52.mobile/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/d0dee231-ab0f-4fe3-b9b2-78e23c1b0b52/Products/00092517&Locale=de_DE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 10 Author Share Posted November 10 Thanks, I have TL061 on the way - if I manage to keep my enthusiasm going long enough, I'll build a tantalum and an electrolytic version, with IC sockets on both so I can swap op amps if I want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 13 Author Share Posted November 13 Should really have had a look at the volume pot I was replacing before ordering - it's not a 25k, it's 500k. So I shall just await the arrival of everything else and make and install the replica early Stingray preamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 You still can wire the pickup directly into the preamp and put the 25kOhms pot at the output of the preamp, so it will work more or less like a real Stingray preamp. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 14 Author Share Posted November 14 4 hours ago, Hellzero said: You still can wire the pickup directly into the preamp and put the 25kOhms pot at the output of the preamp, so it will work more or less like a real Stingray preamp. 😉 It has the pickup direct into the preamp already. And the 2-band EQ presumably isn't filter based as the bass and treble controls are both centre detented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted November 14 Share Posted November 14 So the volume pot is after the preamp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted November 15 Share Posted November 15 You didn't answer @tauzero, but if you solder that 25 kOhms pot between the preamp output and the jack, your bass will found way better than with the non matching 500 kOhms pot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 15 Author Share Posted November 15 26 minutes ago, Hellzero said: You didn't answer @tauzero, but if you solder that 25 kOhms pot between the preamp output and the jack, your bass will found way better than with the non matching 500 kOhms pot... Sorry, yes, but I'm waiting for the OSHPark board to get here from Trumpland rather than soldering stuff up now. And I think that the pot probably does match the original preamp, it wouldn't do so well with a replica '77 Stingray preamp like it's about to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 Yes, the original pot for the volume is a 25 kOhms log, but was replaced later with a linear one. 100 kOhms log for the bass and 1 megOhms reverse log for the treble, but again linear one will do the job perfectly with a more useable progression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted Saturday at 12:07 Author Share Posted Saturday at 12:07 I've got the pots as originally specified, I'll see how usable they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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