once you've played a 5 string what's the point of 4?

[Stub Mandrel]

I have three fivers and long fingers, which suggests I prefer five?

 

With big hands I have no trouble playing  one finger per fret up to the nut, and I actually find the extra string feels clumsier and makes muting harder (I tend to mute with fingertips not palm which limits the number of digits available). Also, I find I can play four without looking at the fingerboard as often, it's essier to get lost on a five (that said I can (debatably) play guitar with six...) They are also heavier and feel clumsier.

 

So why five at all?

 

Obviously if you want the low notes, but for most songs they are just a novelty like using an effect pedal (exceptions in our repertoire are Gasoline by Audioslave and even Devil Woman which benefits from a drop D).

 

Then there's the 'easier to play' argument.  I found playing Pressure and Time with multiple fills in Fm easier on a five... then the band decided to play it in Em.

 

Finally the 'different options' argument. Well virtually all I play was originally played on four. Using a five for blues rock is fun as you do find yourself going down or across instead of up, five string is oddly suited to blues progressions. You can do a much more solid job in D. But it does feel gimmicky at othe times - I probably only use low B or C a handful of times in a night.

 

Really though it's all down to personal preference, I like the way five makes you think differently but it IS harder, for me at least.

 

It's just occurred to me that in the 90s I mostly gigged with two 24 fret basses.  Now I mostly gig with fewer...

[rmorris]

Well a 4 avoids having to deal with damping the B and concerns about how it stands up to the other strings. In some circumstances I'd suggest a 3 string bass. But I think Tony Levin beat me to it a few years ago 🤔

[paul_5]

I played 5s almost exclusively for a few years and they were great, but I’ve gone back to 4s as the strings are 20% cheaper 😄

[dave_bass5]

I love narrow string spacing, so playing a 5 is more for that rather than the extra notes. Saying that, I always seem to drop back to a 4 at some point. It's just less (for me) to think about. It could be that my 5 string is heavy, and my 4 is very light, but im always careful not to get too far in to playing a 5 as its supposed to be played, as i know will end up back on a 4 eventually. 

Also the neck with is a factor, but again, I can play both when needed.

[DDR]

Thanks everyone, very interesting to read you comments and ideas about this.

 

I do want to stress that there was nothing antagonistic about my post. I was literally asking myself whether i would play my 4 strings again as, since picking up my new 5 string a few weeks ago i have not enjoyed playing them.  They feel weird, pretty flimsy thin, small and are missing a sting!

 

So it's literally a question i put to you because of my own contemplations.  I now have an amazing 5 string P with flats and i love it so, will i now buy a 5 string jazz put roundwounds on it, sell all my 4s and have done with it?

It may just be that the quality of this instrument is particularly high and I should look at getting a new 4 from this company but not sure yet...

 

Obviously someone who plays bass is not better by playing a 5 string, we know good music is good music, who cares how many strings its made with but it does seem to me that for this instrument, being so young in it's history, going from 4 to 5 strings that include that lower range is conceptually some kind of progression. 

 

You don't need a low C till you do no? I can't imagine a piano without access to it's lowest range because it's hard to control or makes the piano heavy or someone has small fingers. Those notes are there because they exist full stop. There are shortscale 5 strings so...

I really love a good octaver sound but if i want a clean bass guitar sounding Db in that lower octave? I donno it makes sense to me to have it there for when i need it. Hard to imagine going back on this right now but it could be.

 

I didn't mention 6 strings or the 5s with the high C because i believe this takes the bass in a range that takes it away from the bass role. I'm not hating on 6 it's just that the upper range seems to conceptually move away from bottom end.

 

I guess i should give it some time and see if it's just a phase before i sell all my 4 strings and get another 5 string!

[Steve Browning]

There have been 5 string orchestral basses for many years, of course. 

 

I don't get the horn player argument as jazzers have generally played 4 string uprights throughout the history of the genre. 

 

As you conclude, we play what we play/suits us and no-one can tell us we're wrong. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

1 hour ago, DDR said:

Thanks everyone, very interesting to read you comments and ideas about this.

 

I do want to stress that there was nothing antagonistic about my post. I was literally asking myself whether i would play my 4 strings again as, since picking up my new 5 string a few weeks ago i have not enjoyed playing them.  They feel weird, pretty flimsy thin, small and are missing a sting!

 

So it's literally a question i put to you because of my own contemplations.  I now have an amazing 5 string P with flats and i love it so, will i now buy a 5 string jazz put roundwounds on it, sell all my 4s and have done with it?

It may just be that the quality of this instrument is particularly high and I should look at getting a new 4 from this company but not sure yet...

 

Obviously someone who plays bass is not better by playing a 5 string, we know good music is good music, who cares how many strings its made with but it does seem to me that for this instrument, being so young in it's history, going from 4 to 5 strings that include that lower range is conceptually some kind of progression. 

 

You don't need a low C till you do no? I can't imagine a piano without access to it's lowest range because it's hard to control or makes the piano heavy or someone has small fingers. Those notes are there because they exist full stop. There are shortscale 5 strings so...

I really love a good octaver sound but if i want a clean bass guitar sounding Db in that lower octave? I donno it makes sense to me to have it there for when i need it. Hard to imagine going back on this right now but it could be.

 

I didn't mention 6 strings or the 5s with the high C because i believe this takes the bass in a range that takes it away from the bass role. I'm not hating on 6 it's just that the upper range seems to conceptually move away from bottom end.

 

I guess i should give it some time and see if it's just a phase before i sell all my 4 strings and get another 5 string!

Extra high notes takes away from the bass range, now?

 

So in you opinion all basses ought to be 5 string basses, tuned to B standard tuning, and with only 12 frets, or?

 

Else it isn't a real bass?

 

This discussion is absurd.

 

Why can't people just accept that some prefer 4 string basses, other people again 5 string basses, some even 6, or even 12 strings, and it is all good.

 

Non of them are lesser instruments, or less real basses.

 

Is this and add for Scott's upcoming clickbait video: "Why 5 string basses crushes everything!"?

 

In before we get "Why 4 string basses crushes everything!", and 6 string, and 2 sting, and 1 string, and 12 strings, and....

 

Edited November 26 by Baloney Balderdash

[Leonard Smalls]

37 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

no-one can tell us we're wrong.

Of course they can. This is the internet!!

😁

 

[snorkie635]

7 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Of course they can. This is the internet!!

😁

 

Yep, and I'm reading this on six monitors although Spock only needed one. 😆

[ezbass]

1 hour ago, DDR said:

 sell all my 4s and have done with it?

Been there, did that, then bought 4 stringers again and sold the 5s  GAS messes with your head.  

[chris_b]

Leland Sklar said in an interview that he'll play the bass that the songs require, but if he has to play one note below E he'll use a 5 string bass for the whole show, because he's not going to switch basses on stage.

 

Pretty much my thoughts. I don't see the point in switching basses around (even less point in retuning mid set) when I've got one instrument that covers all formats. If there's a 4 string song that really doesn't require the B string then I'll just play it on the upper 4 strings. I also play several songs on 2 strings and one song that that only requires the E string. As I say, it's a good to have one instrument that covers all requirements.

[Woodinblack]

58 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Extra high notes takes away from the bass range, now?

 

So in you opinion all basses ought to be 5 string basses, tuned to B standard tuning, and with only 12 frets, or?

 

Else it isn't a real bass?

 

This discussion is absurd.

 

no, your reply is absurd because he didn't say he held that opinion at all, so you made up an argument to be outraged against.

[JapanAxe]

25 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Leland Sklar said in an interview that he'll play the bass that the songs require, but if he has to play one note below E he'll use a 5 string bass for the whole show, because he's not going to switch basses on stage.

 

Pretty much my thoughts. I don't see the point in switching basses around (even less point in retuning mid set) when I've got one instrument that covers all formats. If there's a 4 string song that really doesn't require the B string then I'll just play it on the upper 4 strings. I also play several songs on 2 strings and one song that that only requires the E string. As I say, it's a good to have one instrument that covers all requirements.

That wouldn’t necessarily work for me. I might need my 5-string for certain songs but if I then have to slap (quite badly) I’ll need a 4-string because I can’t do it cleanly on my 5. That’s very much a me problem!

[OliverBlackman]

34 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I don't see the point in switching basses around (even less point in retuning mid set) when I've got one instrument that covers all formats. 

If you struggle with finding a lightweight 5, and you only need it for 1 song of a 2 hour set, why put your body through it?

[Woodinblack]

37 minutes ago, OliverBlackman said:

If you struggle with finding a lightweight 5, and you only need it for 1 song of a 2 hour set, why put your body through it?

The lightest bass I ever played was a 5 string - not sure where the thing about the weight comes from, like an extra tuner and one string doesn't actually weigh very much at all!

[dave_bass5]

13 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

The lightest bass I ever played was a 5 string - not sure where the thing about the weight comes from, like an extra tuner and one string doesn't actually weigh very much at all!

Same. Ive played a 6lb 5 string that to me felt like you got nothing for your money (IIR it cost over £4000) as id never held anything so light. 

This was a high end bass though. Ive never had a budget for those so have had to buy cheap basses, which have not been anywhere near that weight. My Fender weighs dead on 8lbs, so thats one reason i keep going back to it. My current 5 string is just over 10lbs. 

[Woodinblack]

4 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Same. Ive played a 6lb 5 string that to me felt like you got nothing for your money (IIR it cost over £4000) as id never held anything so light. 

mine was a Spector RST, about 6.5 lb. Certainly lighter than my euro which is over 10. Most of my basses (which are mostly 5s) are a long way over 10lb, except my acrylic one which is about 14lb, I don't tend to play that for the whole gig!

[OliverBlackman]

41 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

The lightest bass I ever played was a 5 string - not sure where the thing about the weight comes from, like an extra tuner and one string doesn't actually weigh very much at all!

Well there’s extra wood in the neck, at least on most conventional (Fender-esque) 5 string basses, then heavier bodies are used to counteract the neck dive.

[Woodinblack]

3 minutes ago, OliverBlackman said:

Well there’s extra wood in the neck, at least on most conventional (Fender-esque) 5 string basses, then heavier bodies are used to counteract the neck dive.

 

I suppose if you view fender-esque as conventional, then yes. I don't - I consider fender style instruments 4 string basses - I know there are 5 strings, but they always looked like hacks, I view eastern style (japanese / korean etc) instruments as 5 strings.

[OliverBlackman]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I suppose if you view fender-esque as conventional, then yes. I don't - I consider fender style instruments 4 string basses - I know there are 5 strings, but they always looked like hacks, I view eastern style (japanese / korean etc) instruments as 5 strings.

Fair enough

[chris_b]

5 hours ago, OliverBlackman said:

If you struggle with finding a lightweight 5, and you only need it for 1 song of a 2 hour set, why put your body through it?

 

I have 1 x 8.3lb, 2 x 7lb and 1 x 6.8lb 5 string basses sitting right here.

 

If anyone can't find a lightweight 5 string bass  they're not looking hard enough.

Edited November 26 by chris_b

[OliverBlackman]

9 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

I have 1 x 8.3lb, 2 x 7lb and 1 x 6.8lb 5 string basses sitting right here.

 

If anyone can't find a lightweight 5 string bass  they're not looking hard enough.

A very lightweight collection you have, and IIRC they’re also top notch instruments too.

[Steve Browning]

38 minutes ago, OliverBlackman said:

A very lightweight collection you have, and IIRC they’re also top notch instruments too.

Just imagine them 20% lighter! 🙂

[dave_bass5]

11 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

I have 1 x 8.3lb, 2 x 7lb and 1 x 6.8lb 5 string basses sitting right here.

 

If anyone can't find a lightweight 5 string bass  they're not looking hard enough.

Ive never found done that I feel I can invest in. This is my issue. As I know I'll end up back with a 4 string, I can't bring myself to spend more on a 5 string. Ive never found a sub 8lbs 5 string I can afford, other than a Yamaha that I had briefly and should never have sent it back.  So for me it's always been at the budget end (even my DJ 5 weighed a bit more than my 4 strings at the time).

[chris_b]

32 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Ive never found done that I feel I can invest in. This is my issue. As I know I'll end up back with a 4 string, I can't bring myself to spend more on a 5 string. Ive never found a sub 8lbs 5 string I can afford, other than a Yamaha that I had briefly and should never have sent it back.  So for me it's always been at the budget end (even my DJ 5 weighed a bit more than my 4 strings at the time).

Hi Dave, there's one given, as long as I'm alive I'm gigging. The task is to make it happen.

 

No question, the best bass I've owned so far is my 9.8lb Sadowsky Jazz, which is too heavy for my back! So I had to find the bass that is good enough to replace the Sadowsky, at the right weight, and, as the budget isn't what it was, at the right cost.

 

Tone is always the problem, but, as long as the bass weighs, plays and looks right the tone can be managed. I've just perked up a cheap Cort Jazz with a Sadowsky preamp pedal. I was planning to change the pickups and add a preamp (which was double the cost of the bass!!) but this pedal gets the sound 90% there with 10% of the outlay.

 

It's a start.