once you've played a 5 string what's the point of 4?

[rmorris]

Anyone like to comment on fanned frets 🤔

[SumOne]

If more strings = better, I think the 'why not play 6?' is the best answer (and was the first response). Or, if fewer strings = better, for people that insist on 4, 'why not 3'?

 

Clearly there are advantages and disadvantages to each one, and personal preference.

 

I think it's a bit of a misconception that it takes more skill to play a 5. One of the advantages to 5 is to keep the same patterns and not have to figure out open strings and drop tuning. For me, intermittently dropping E to D on a 4 is more tricky than playing it on a 5.

 

And multi scale is the same argument, it is better for some things (tone, tension), not so good for others (chords, choice of string sets).

Edited November 30 by SumOne

[Leonard Smalls]

13 hours ago, joel406 said:

QuadCortex. 8 driver custom fitted IEMs.

 

If I have to use an amp. Mesa Boogie Subway D-800+ into Mesa Boogie Cabs. Either my 212s or my 410s. I have two of each. Mostly reach for the Epifani more for live. But for the last 3 years. IEMs. They go plenty low enough with their 4 low-end armatures. And the QuadCortex handles "all" the frequencies. 

 

So... Yeah those low notes are well represented. It's the FOH that counts

 

It is the FOH that counts, though there's not many PAs in small to medium venues that will accurately reproduce 30Hz at any volume. You'll get hints of it, but as Dan says you'll get far more in the way of overtones which just point at it.

The problem is that PA systems are designed to be efficient so they go very loud, unlike some hifi systems which can be just the opposite. I've got 2 pairs of Hifi speakers that will produce 30Hz at volume - Leema Xaviers which have an F3 point of 28Hz and Ditton 66/series 2s which have an F6 of 18Hz. However, I need to use a Bryston power amp which produces 968w RMS/channel to do that. And both speakers are around 86dB/w efficient, so they soak up the power!

However, if your 4x10 cab is a Mesa Subway 4x10 has an efficiency of 100.4dB/w, which of course means they have far less extension that my hifi speaks (but will go a lot louder!) - the actual F3 figure (i.e. where output is 3dB below the mid frequency level) is 59.4 Hz, with an F10 figure(which equates to being half as loud as F3) of 41.3Hz. So if you're lucky, the output at 30Hz is likely to be 1/4 as loud as the F3! So you're actually not going to be reproducing much at 30Hz either FOH or from speaker monitoring.

Your IEMs may reproduce it, but that doesn't help the audience, and the electronics are largely irrelevant as most have at least a range of 20-20000Hz.

If you want to get nearer to a magical 30Hz at volume, the Mesa Subway 2x15 will do F10 @ 37Hz... But a Trace 1818, if you've got the back for it, will give an F6 of 28Hz... 

[Baloney Balderdash]

Why eat one bowl of cereal for breakfast when you can have two?

 

Also why use a bowl half the size when you can get one that is double the size?

 

What's up with that?

 

Edited November 30 by Baloney Balderdash

[Richard R]

1 hour ago, SumOne said:

I think it's a bit of a misconception that it takes more skill to play a 5. One of the advantages to 5 is to keep the same patterns and not have to figure out open strings and drop tuning

 

Yep. Whenever people have asked me "Why does your bass have 5 strings?", they never believe the answer "It's easier to play and I'm lazy", even though that is ultimately why I play 5. 😁

[diskwave]

Well this type of thread cetainly highlights all the different thinking and styles of playing. I personally prefer four because Ive always played down ny the nut where the tone is plus I have no problem leaping all over the board if I have to ... In a strange way its kind of fun.. dare I even say.... more show biz?

[Stub Mandrel]

18 hours ago, Beer of the Bass said:

 

I recorded once with a very experienced producer/engineer who was absolutely insistent that the fundamental frequency on a double bass was one octave below the same string/position on bass guitar, on a session where I was playing double bass. It was a very strange experience, I eventually just kind of conceded so we could get on with things rather than pushing the point even though I know they're the same.

 

I know the situation.  It FEELS lower for some reason. A slow bowed E on a good double has has way more presence than the low B on many fivers.

[Stub Mandrel]

4 hours ago, SumOne said:

think it's a bit of a misconception that it takes more skill to play a 5. One of the advantages to 5 is to keep the same patterns and not have to figure out open strings and drop tuning. For me, intermittently dropping E to D on a 4 is more tricky than playing it on a 5.

 

I'm spending a few hours noodling on a five today, just to minimise the chance of 'wrong string' incidents at tonight's gig...

[Stub Mandrel]

4 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

 

It is the FOH that counts, though there's not many PAs in small to medium venues that will accurately reproduce 30Hz at any volume. You'll get hints of it, but as Dan says you'll get far more in the way of overtones which just point at it.

The problem is that PA systems are designed to be efficient so they go very loud, unlike some hifi systems which can be just the opposite. I've got 2 pairs of Hifi speakers that will produce 30Hz at volume - Leema Xaviers which have an F3 point of 28Hz and Ditton 66/series 2s which have an F6 of 18Hz. However, I need to use a Bryston power amp which produces 968w RMS/channel to do that. And both speakers are around 86dB/w efficient, so they soak up the power!

However, if your 4x10 cab is a Mesa Subway 4x10 has an efficiency of 100.4dB/w, which of course means they have far less extension that my hifi speaks (but will go a lot louder!) - the actual F3 figure (i.e. where output is 3dB below the mid frequency level) is 59.4 Hz, with an F10 figure(which equates to being half as loud as F3) of 41.3Hz. So if you're lucky, the output at 30Hz is likely to be 1/4 as loud as the F3! So you're actually not going to be reproducing much at 30Hz either FOH or from speaker monitoring.

Your IEMs may reproduce it, but that doesn't help the audience, and the electronics are largely irrelevant as most have at least a range of 20-20000Hz.

If you want to get nearer to a magical 30Hz at volume, the Mesa Subway 2x15 will do F10 @ 37Hz... But a Trace 1818, if you've got the back for it, will give an F6 of 28Hz... 

 

My AT212 slim claims to be -3dB at 32 hz. Sensitivity 104dD.

 

I nade the error of using a five with an octaver and no hpf once. At the end of the song my amp was balanced half off the top of the cab...

[M@23]

I’ve not gigged a 4 string for probably 7 or 8 years. The only one I own is my Squier Mini P, but if learning songs or jamming at home I’ll grab that before my 5, probably for convenience more than anything as it’s guitar sized. I think a few years ago I’d never have entertained a 4, again. But now, I enjoy it all over again. Don’t think it makes me play differently, just a nice change of scenery. 

[Dan Dare]

59 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I nade the error of using a five with an octaver and no hpf once. At the end of the song my amp was balanced half off the top of the cab...

 

I've had that happen at less extreme frequencies when playing loud. A piece of thickish foam between cab and amp helps prevent the vibrations from "walking" the amp off the cab.

[Stub Mandrel]

15 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

I've had that happen at less extreme frequencies when playing loud. A piece of thickish foam between cab and amp helps prevent the vibrations from "walking" the amp off the cab.

 

I use a miniature ratchet strap for peace of mind.

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I use a miniature ratchet strap for peace of mind.

 

Yes, OK, the way you dress is your concern, but how do you stop the amp from vibrating off the amp..? 

 

...

 

 

[Richard R]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I use a miniature ratchet strap for peace of mind.

I bet you say that to all the girls 😉

[Richard R]

Clearly @Dad3353 and I both need to grow up! 😁

[Dad3353]

10 minutes ago, Richard R said:

Clearly @Dad3353 and I both need to grow up! 😁

 

I tried that, once, but didn't like it, so I stopped. 

 

..
 

 

[tauzero]

9 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I'm spending a few hours noodling on a five today, just to minimise the chance of 'wrong string' incidents at tonight's gig...

 

I still manage "wrong string" incidents after 17 years of playing almost exclusively 5 strings - the most recent being tonight.

[The fasting showman]

In my case, no rational reason; I'll give you a load of saloon bar philosophy.

 

I went into lockdown on the back of graduating through grim covers bands into being the token old bloke playing nice RnB/ Disco stuff with glossier looking musos 15-20 years younger than myself. I was playing, and enjoying using a G&L 5 string.

Over lockdown those bands folded, and I emerged feeling older and didn't feel inclined to punt myself out; start up bands, rehearsals where you only see the singer at gigs due to childcare issues, bands staring into smartphones trying to make 'ain't nobody ' work in a band context. So that is what 'Me playing a 5 string' become synonymous with, nothing wrong with the instrument or object but me thinking, jeez I can't do this anymore, it's bleak.

Along the way, I joined a pop/ soul band that was more of a pub band doing function repertoire to a slightly more basic standard. I had switched to a G&L fallout short scale and used an octave pedal for synth impersonation and low notes. A great bass again, absolutely perfect for what I needed.

But...the musical situation started to grate, they were probably as sick of me moaning at the drummer as vice versa and so that ended back in September '23. I basically downed tools. 

In a need to shed my skin, the Fallouts got sold for no other reason than me associating them with that band and time. I actively sought out a bass ( a 1980 P bass special from Ash) that I knew I'd always sounded rubbish on, a precision, just to give me a challenge and also knowing that nobody gave a damn what gear I was using because I had nothing on the calendar. 

Anyway, I'm playing a tour support later this month and the P bass has worked out fine.

Apologies for the rambling post, just that my gear choices are based on no science or liking active/ passive/ blah blah just a mixture of self - loathing and /or the alleviation of boredom!

[Beer of the Bass]

17 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I know the situation.  It FEELS lower for some reason. A slow bowed E on a good double has has way more presence than the low B on many fivers.

 

I'm thinking it's something to do with the difference between a plucked note and a bowed one. Plucking, the energy is applied the string in one burst and it's all decay from there. With the bow, there's continued energy input through the length of the note.

[knirirr]

Though I normally only play 4 strings (because it's a pretty standard 3/4 DB) this thread has tempted me to borrow Mrs. K's 5-string to try out at a jam. They normally do the Christmas jam in a room where the ceiling's too low to stand up with my DB.

[Baloney Balderdash]

I don't always play a 5 string, but when I do...

 

[prowla]

Rickenbackers are my favourite bass.

I tried one of their 5-strings and didn't gel with it.

So I now only have 4-string Rics.

 

 

I do have some other 5-strings though.

 

 

I like the Warwicks and the neck on the Statii, but they don't sound like Rics.

(I don't have the Sub and Rockbass anymore.)

[JoeEvans]

I think the invention of the internet created this new possibility whereby we can all share our opinions with each other, and we're all still reeling at the discovery that other people are genuinely not the same as us, like totally different things, do things completely differently, have utterly different politics, and yet are still somehow able to function in the world. So at the moment, a large amount of online activity is just people saying WTF to one another's opinions.

I'm hoping that in due course everyone will get over it and we can move on to the next phase of whatever this process is.

[prowla]

16 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

I think the invention of the internet created this new possibility whereby we can all share our opinions with each other, and we're all still reeling at the discovery that other people are genuinely not the same as us, like totally different things, do things completely differently, have utterly different politics, and yet are still somehow able to function in the world. So at the moment, a large amount of online activity is just people saying WTF to one another's opinions.

I'm hoping that in due course everyone will get over it and we can move on to the next phase of whatever this process is.

I like the fact that we have different opinions; it’s always been so.
Sometimes I even learn from them.

I can’t be doing with the intolerance though.  
 

[ezbass]

19 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

I think the invention of the internet created this new possibility whereby we can all share our opinions with each other, and we're all still reeling at the discovery that other people are genuinely not the same as us, like totally different things, do things completely differently, have utterly different politics, and yet are still somehow able to function in the world. So at the moment, a large amount of online activity is just people saying WTF to one another's opinions.

I'm hoping that in due course everyone will get over it and we can move on to the next phase of whatever this process is.

Steven Wilson summed it nicely with the intro to To The Bone, “Once we've made sense of our world, we wanna go f*** up everybody else's, because his or her truth doesn't match mine”.