Choosing cabs and other bits

[fatgoogle]

Ive been looking for a cab for around 300 euro to play with my ashdown mag 600R, because i made my own 1x15 with a Fane 15-425 and although when it was first made i was all excited and thought it was the chiz-diggle or whatever, but ive been struggling to get a useabl;e tone at band practise with, it, its grand at home. So i thought before i go abot changing heads so soon, i should get a nice proper cab i suppose to make sure i dont go wasting money.

Im wanting a 4x10 preferably with a tweeter, with a attenuator?
So far im come up with a,
Peavey tvx 4x10, this has got everything i want on it, but the thing im most confused about is it says 350 watts rms and then 700 watts program handling. Is 700 whats to be trusted at all or is it a marketing scam. Im only going to be putting 300 watts through it so was wondering for future reference. I havent played one so reviews and thoughts would be great.

Hartke VX 4x10, also i havent played one, but hear bad things about hartke cabs, i ve played a couple of their heads and liked them. So thoughts again on this would be great.

Any other cabs around 300 euro and that can handle 300 watts + at 8 ohms.


Also if it does prove to be the head that in the end i cant work, i had played one a couple of times and thats why i bought it, but if it does prove to un-usable to use in a setting, which in the end is most important to me, ill need or want(most likely) a differnt head. The two ive been thinking are a Hartke Lh 500 or a peavey tour 700. THoughts and opinions on all of these would be great. Why cant they make something that just works for anything, why!!!
I play a Fender Jazz 24, if thats any help.

Thanks
Sam H

[Balcro]

[quote name='fatgoogle' post='503385' date='Jun 1 2009, 10:48 PM']Ive been looking for a cab for around 300 euro to play with my ashdown mag 600R, because i made my own 1x15 with a Fane 15-425 and although when it was first made i was all excited and thought it was the chiz-diggle or whatever, but ive been struggling to get a useabl;e tone at band practise with, it, its grand at home. So i thought before i go abot changing heads so soon, i should get a nice proper cab i suppose to make sure i dont go wasting money.

Im wanting a 4x10 preferably with a tweeter, with a attenuator?
So far im come up with a,
Peavey tvx 4x10, this has got everything i want on it, but the thing im most confused about is it says 350 watts rms and then 700 watts program handling. Is 700 whats to be trusted at all or is it a marketing scam. Im only going to be putting 300 watts through it so was wondering for future reference. I havent played one so reviews and thoughts would be great.

Hartke VX 4x10, also i havent played one, but hear bad things about hartke cabs, i ve played a couple of their heads and liked them. So thoughts again on this would be great.
Any other cabs around 300 euro and that can handle 300 watts + at 8 ohms.

Also if it does prove to be the head that in the end i cant work, i had played one a couple of times and thats why i bought it, but if it does prove to un-usable to use in a setting, which in the end is most important to me, ill need or want(most likely) a differnt head. The two ive been thinking are a Hartke Lh 500 or a peavey tour 700. THoughts and opinions on all of these would be great. Why cant they make something that just works for anything, why!!!
I play a Fender Jazz 24, if thats any help.
Thanks. Sam H[/quote]

The Peavey TVX 410 is apparently now discontinued, but it's an 8-ohm cabinet rated at 350watts R.M.S. Ignore "program power". It's nonsense in this context. A 300 watt amp will be fine, but don't run it at full pelt.

Sorry, can't help you with the other questions.

Balcro.

[rodl2005]

Agree with the Above reply. That PV cab should be fine if it's a good price etc... & peavey DO make good quality stuff- reliable & built well etc...


Hartke LH500 is s'posed to be great!! I haven't tried it apart from at a shop-where It sounded great! haven't tried the PV amp- but refer to comments above re - Peavey
HArtke cabs are fine too, But I'd probly go w/ the PV - just MY preference re these 2 cabs!
They do make things that'll work w/ anything... combo's!! ;-) Impedance & power handling etc are IMPORTANT factors in regards to an amp/cab.
In short- that 4x10 PV should be a GREAT improvement on your 1x15" Does your amp put out 300w at 4 ohms?? If so into ONE 8 ohm cab it'll put out about 1/2 power(not that THAT will be only 1/2 as loud... not at all, will be almost as loud) but it WILL alow U to add another 8 ohm cab at a later date if needed. OR U could get ONE 4 OHM 4x10 cab & run yr amp at full power into it.

Edited June 3, 2009 by rodl2005

[jhk]

I`ve owned peavey 4 X 10 cab in past and they are great cabs for money! very reliable and don`t sound too bad either!!

good luck!!

[johnnylager]

Hartke LH-500 & Barefaced Compact. Job done.

[chris_pokkuri]

My Hartke LH1000 arrived yesterday which is the big brother to the LH500. I had a little play with it last night and it sounds really good and is very simple to use. From what I've heard the LH500 is just as good.

[stevie]

[quote name='fatgoogle' post='503385' date='Jun 1 2009, 10:48 PM']but ive been struggling to get a useabl;e tone at band practise with, it, its grand at home.[/quote]
Could you be more specific about the problem?

[fatgoogle]

Its 300 watts at 8 ohms, so its pretty loud.

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='johnnylager' post='504449' date='Jun 3 2009, 09:13 AM']Hartke LH-500 & Barefaced Compact. Job done.[/quote]

Yeah, but that's about £750 in total. Which is a bit more than €300.

S.P.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='fatgoogle' post='503385' date='Jun 1 2009, 10:48 PM']Ive been looking for a cab for around 300 euro to play with my ashdown mag 600R, because i made my own 1x15 with a Fane 15-425 and although when it was first made i was all excited and thought it was the chiz-diggle or whatever, but ive been struggling to get a useabl;e tone at band practise with, it, its grand at home.[/quote]

If I were you I'd build another matching 1x15" and use the pair, stacked. If it sounds good at home then it isn't the tone that's a problem, it's the max SPL (which is predominantly dictated by the excursion limited power handling - how much air the speaker can move before the distortion level rapidly increases). Use a matched pair of cabs and you'll get another 6dB of output, which in the lows will sound more like 10dB of output (due to the Fletcher-Munson curve), and 10dB increase in SPL is twice as loud. BIG difference.

Doubling your wattage rarely makes much difference but doubling your 'speakerage' often does get you twice as much output. More to carry but with a restricted budget it's the sensible route.

Alex

[chris_b]

I've done very loud gigs with 300 watts so I think your speakers are the problem. I'd forget home built cabs, save up another £100 and get a Barefaced Compact.

[stevie]

The advice being dished out in this section of the forum has always been a bit iffy, but is now becoming increasingly pointless because nobody bothers to read the questions properly. You need to understand what the problem is before you can give sensible advice.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='stevie' post='504788' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:05 PM']The advice being dished out in this section of the forum has always been a bit iffy, but is now becoming increasingly pointless because nobody bothers to read the questions properly. You need to understand what the problem is before you can give sensible advice.[/quote]

If I may say so I thought my advice was rather good!

Alex

[51m0n]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='504874' date='Jun 3 2009, 05:23 PM']If I may say so I thought my advice was rather good!

Alex[/quote]

Alex, your advice was spot on, but very few people understand a word you say after the "If I were you I'd" bit

To be honest I would do exactly what Alex suggested, way back when I used to run a monsterously loud rig by having a veritable wall of speakers running off a few hundred watts (2x410s and 2x115s running off a Laney G300 and Crown DC300 lab amp). It wasnt pretty it weighed a tonne but it moved massive amounts of air

Coped with two obnoxiously loud drummers and two obnoxiously loud guitarists handsomely.

Actually it completely drowned the lot of them out if I got carried away

"There is no replacement for displacement"

Edited June 3, 2009 by 51m0n

[stevie]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='504874' date='Jun 3 2009, 05:23 PM']If I may say so I thought my advice was rather good!

Alex[/quote]

We don’t really know what the problem is here, do we? All Sam says is that he can’t get the right tone in a practice situation with his band. I’m not really sure what that means but you assume that his cabinet isn't powerful enough – even you don’t even know what kind of a band he’s playing in.
What if the cabinet is mistuned? You just advised him to build another mistuned cabinet and patted yourself on the back for doing so.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='stevie' post='504906' date='Jun 3 2009, 06:12 PM']We don’t really know what the problem is here, do we? All Sam says is that he can’t get the right tone in a practice situation with his band. I’m not really sure what that means but you assume that his cabinet isn't powerful enough – even you don’t even know what kind of a band he’s playing in.
What if the cabinet is mistuned? You just advised him to build another mistuned cabinet and patted yourself on the back for doing so.[/quote]

Good point, I had foolishly assumed that he'd built a correctly tuned ported cab for the Fane. If he has then my advice stands, it's a decent speaker for the money and two of them should hang in most bands. It doesn't have much happening past 2kHz but nor do most bass rigs off-axis. If he's getting a decent tone at home then I don't see why it shouldn't work in the band unless he's scooping out all his midrange. But we have to go on what information we have and if we give everyone the third degree they'll just give up posting!

So to Mr F Google, what plans did you use to build your current 1x15"?

Alex

[Protium]

[quote name='chris_b' post='504771' date='Jun 3 2009, 03:52 PM']I've done very loud gigs with 300 watts so I think your speakers are the problem. I'd forget home built cabs, save up another £100 and get a Barefaced Compact.[/quote]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a well-researched and designed homemade cab. Take the barefaced compact for example

[fatgoogle]

A man called Phil star, well that being his user name, on another website, designed them for me
Its 70cmx55cmx40cm on the inside, 154L and it has ports of 9.45cm long and 4 inches wide. Its a bass reflex cab, but i could easily make an infinite baffle cab, which i was also given measurements for, but i hear you loose roundness and warmness in the bottom end, but i could try it and see if i like it.
In band practice, we have a single guitarist putting his Gibson Les Paul through a Marshall MG halfstack(yuck), and a very loud drummer, but with my fender rumble although, it wasn't great and the tones i get from my Ashdown are allot better, it was easy to come up underneath everyone else which is sort of what im after, but i end up sounding like Steve Harris all the time, nothing wrong with it but not what i want. I leave the eq fairly flat and quite often engage the low switch and boost the bass on my Bass.
The Fane doesn't go that high, i know, but its rounded which i like.
Hope that helps

Sorry about the late reply, Ive been working fruit picking all day and im wrecked 30 euro for 7 hours work, bloody strawberry's, hopefully ill get a job at the local pool and so might be able to get better speakers, The fane sounds good to my ears, but there may be better ones that could do the job better.

EDIT: hears a link to the thread build

[url="http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1063283"]http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showt...d.php?t=1063283[/url] If that helps at all.

EDIT EDIT: also it only cost a bit over 100 euro to make this cab, so making another one is no problem if i can it doing what i want.

Edited June 3, 2009 by fatgoogle

[stevie]

The cab’s too big - and there is nothing worse that a speaker flapping around in an oversize cab - it just sounds all wrong. I can see why you complained about the tone.
There is no need for a cabinet that size, as the extra volume gives you virtually nothing that you couldn't get from a more manageable 100-litre one.

Look at the frequency response curves. The 150-litre cab is in red and the 100-litre cab is in orange. They’re tuned to slightly different frequencies, but you can see that all that extra volume makes virtually no difference. In practice, because the cone moves less in the smaller cab, the difference is nil. See the cone displacement comparison.

You’ll get a tighter, cleaner sound if you put your driver in a 100 litre box. Use two 100mm ports, 150mm long. Perhaps you could reduce the depth of the cab and leave the rest as it is? You should end up with quite a capable speaker.

[fatgoogle]

Sloe down slow down, im no physicist. im 16 just finished the easiest year ever, and a bit slow. Also how to i turn 100 litres into a box, eh stupid question i know, something they dont actually teach you. Also is this still a reflex cabinet.
I suppose im saying please explain.

[casapete]

Peavey did make the 410TVX in both 8 and also 4 ohm versions - I had a 4 ohm job and it sounded fine.
Pick one up on ebay for around £140.

[stevie]

[quote name='fatgoogle' post='505144' date='Jun 3 2009, 10:39 PM']Sloe down slow down, im no physicist. im 16 just finished the easiest year ever, and a bit slow. Also how to i turn 100 litres into a box, eh stupid question i know, something they dont actually teach you. Also is this still a reflex cabinet.
I suppose im saying please explain.[/quote]

Your current cab is 154 litres internal volume. 70cm x 55cm 40cm (height x width x depth, I assume). Multiplying those three dimensions gives you 154,000ccs. Divide by 1000 to get litres, i.e. 154. If you want to end up with 100 litres internal volume you should allow an extra 5 litres to account for the volume taken up by the driver and bracing. Keeping the same baffle area of 70 x 55cm would mean reducing the cabinet depth to 27cm, which is a bit shallow compared with most bass cabs on the market. That's the theory anyway. 70 x 55 x 27cm = 103.95 litres.

Yes, it's still a reflex cabinet, because you are using ports. I'd be tempted to build another cab based on the dimensions of the Trace Elliot 1153 or Ashdown Mag115, although you might understandably not be too keen to go down that route again.

Edited June 4, 2009 by stevie

[fatgoogle]

But arent these things defined by the speaker, doesn't the speaker need a certain amount of space to move, so wouldnt building one based around a trace elliot cab, be sort of wrong. Im not sure though.

[stevie]

[quote name='fatgoogle' post='505324' date='Jun 4 2009, 10:33 AM']But arent these things defined by the speaker, doesn't the speaker need a certain amount of space to move, so wouldnt building one based around a trace elliot cab, be sort of wrong. Im not sure though.[/quote]
Most speakers suitable for use in reflex cabs work OK in a range of cab sizes, but there are limits at both ends of the scale. I only mentioned the Trace and Ashown (which are virtually identical in size) because they are quite a good shape, compact and easy to handle. A cab that is only 10 or 11 inches deep is going to be more awkward to move around.
There is also a design on the web for a 15" cab from Electrovoice that some Basschatters have built, which would be suitable for the Fane. Try a search in the DIY section on here.
I think it could be worth persevering with the Fane driver because it's a cut above what is fitted to most commercial cabs.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='stevie' post='505365' date='Jun 4 2009, 11:40 AM']A cab that is only 10 or 11 inches deep is going to be more awkward to move around.[/quote]

In my experience the shallower the cab, the easier it is to move! I'd much rather have a tall, wide-ish, shallow cab than an equal volume cube. Stick a handle on the side of the cab and you can carry it like a suitcase.

Alex